Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 02:51 PM) A contract we apparently don't want to waste. Between decimating the minor leages system and the unnecessary contracts (Hall, Uribe, Dye), I wonder if failing this year would take some of the starch out of KW's collar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsidehawkeye Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 03:32 PM) Geez our season hasn't even started yet and I already have a sinking feeling this is going to be another long long year. Sadly, I share your feeling... Look, I hope that the WhiteSox are competitive this year. But in reality it is going to be very, very difficult for us to make the post season with the Indians and Tigers looking very, very strong. We simply have too many question marks that would have to come up aces all season long for us to make a real run at our division or the wild card (not saying it cant happen... just that it isn't the most likely outcome for 2008). However, in a couple of years we have a chance to be really, really good. Buehrle, Vazquez, Konerko, and Swisher will be coming into the end of their contracts with the sox and Danks/Floyd will have a couple years under their belts in the Majors. The team will also have dropped some of its "excess weight" from 2005 in Uribe, Contreras, and Crede. These guys were a great part of a great team but they don't appear to be serviceable anymore, and two of them have people waiting behind them that could benefit from getting everyday playing time in the majors (Fields, Richar, Ramirez). In order for our team to be successful in 2009, 2010, 2011 and beyond we need at least a couple of Fields, Quentin, Owens, Anderson, Floyd, and Danks to be a big part of our team. I believe that many of these guys have out-grown the minors... and that most of them have also shown they can be successful in the Majors. No matter when these guys come up to the bigs, be it this year or in 2009/2010 we will likely see growing pains. Most people, no matter how ready they are, take a year or two to get used to the majors before they "come into their own". The sox are in a tough position right now, they have a really good player in Fields but is he worth throwing away Crede for nothing? There are good arguments for both sides of that statement. In the end, what I worry about is if Fields/Quentin/etc spend too much time in the minors when the time comes for them to be called to the bigs in the next year or two are they going to be ready to step up and help a team that has a possibility of being really good with a core of Buehrle, Vazquez, Konerko, Swisher, possibly Cabrera and whoever is hanging around from Thome, Dye, AJ, etc. I think that if Fields gets to go through his first full season in the bigs in 2008, it will only make him better in 2009 and 2010. Edited March 25, 2008 by southsidehawkeye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWhiteSoxinNJ Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Joe Crede-3B- White Sox Mar. 25 - 4:42 pm et The White Sox announced that they'll open the season with Joe Crede at third base and Josh Fields in the minors. Fields has every right to be upset, especially since Crede has been awful both offensively and defensively this spring. It's hard to imagine Crede remaining with the White Sox in 2009, so there's not much reason to go with him now. It doesn't look like he's going to build up a bunch of trade value anytime soon. He's hit .170/.220/.277 with two RBI in 47 at-bats this spring. Source: Chicago Tribune Juan Uribe-SS- White Sox Mar. 25 - 4:39 pm et The White Sox said Juan Uribe would get the first shot at second base this year. Actually, Pablo Ozuna is expected to get the first, first shot, based entirely on his success versus Cleveland's Opening Day starter, C.C. Sabathia. Uribe, though, will play over Ozuna and Alexei Ramirez most of the time initially. It seems unlikely that he'll last a regular all year. Source: Chicago Tribune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 03:53 PM) For the most part, he's not going to see "average fastballs" in AAA. He's going to see below average fastballs, outside of your occasional top prospect. He'll be seeing lots of the Tim Reddings and Wade Millers of the world (for the most part). There's so many things wrong with the Ryan Howard situational comparison as well. First there's the fact that Crede isn't even close to comparable as Thome. A healthy Crede, at his best, is probably the guy we saw in 2006 -- average-ish bat (slugging % heavy) with plus defense and well below-average baserunning. That's a very replaceable player and certainly not someone who should be blocking your top prospect. Thome, quite obviously, is a top-30 bat in the game when healthy. And there was a LOT more invested in Thome than there is in Crede. Talk about an apples and filet mignon comparison there. If there is anything minor league pitchers can do, it is throw "average" fastballs. It's the secondary pitches that they can't throw. My comparison of Fields to Howard was not a comparison of the situation. My comparison is that a guy who had "mastered" the minor leagues FAR MORE than Josh Fields has managed not to have his career stunted or retarded, or any other ridiculously hyperbolic verb you want to attach to the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Now now, there's still time before Opening Day. Should we have released Crede for nothing? It saddens me to watch my hometown organization wander in the dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I have such a problem with playing a guy you know won't be back with the organization in 2009 for a guy who should be a cornerstone of the offense for the next 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 08:55 PM) Joe Crede-3B- White Sox Mar. 25 - 4:42 pm et The White Sox announced that they'll open the season with Joe Crede at third base and Josh Fields in the minors. Fields has every right to be upset, especially since Crede has been awful both offensively and defensively this spring. It's hard to imagine Crede remaining with the White Sox in 2009, so there's not much reason to go with him now. It doesn't look like he's going to build up a bunch of trade value anytime soon. He's hit .170/.220/.277 with two RBI in 47 at-bats this spring. Source: Chicago Tribune Juan Uribe-SS- White Sox Mar. 25 - 4:39 pm et The White Sox said Juan Uribe would get the first shot at second base this year. Actually, Pablo Ozuna is expected to get the first, first shot, based entirely on his success versus Cleveland's Opening Day starter, C.C. Sabathia. Uribe, though, will play over Ozuna and Alexei Ramirez most of the time initially. It seems unlikely that he'll last a regular all year. Source: Chicago Tribune Interesting, another observer that says Crede looks terrible on defense so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 When is the negative thread going to open up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 03:54 PM) Between decimating the minor leages system and the unnecessary contracts (Hall, Uribe, Dye), I wonder if failing this year would take some of the starch out of KW's collar. I wonder if it would finally get KW and Ozzie canned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 It has been funny... People called me crazy for being so pessimistic this offseason and thinking we will suck. Now, more and more people are thinking the same way as me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) RE: Fields.... QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 03:05 PM) Unreal. Shame on KW and Ozzie. What a terrible message this sends to our young players (who aren't particularly fond of Ozzie in the first place). Crede's a great fielder. If there's no trade, he's gonna play. Fields would have had to KO him this spring and didnt. Fault them for their overall logic of winning now, fine. But this is in line with it. Edited March 25, 2008 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 A thing I don't understand is if Uribe is the starting 2b then why not send "sex ram" to AAA and let him work on his D and hitting breaking pitches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(Princess Dye @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 09:00 PM) RE: Fields.... Crede's an unbelievable fielder. If there's no trade, he's gonna play. Fault them for their overall logic of winning now, fine. But this is in line with it. The legend grows. It's like people who say Rowand was an unbelievable fielder. I can't wait to hear Hawk state every game how Crede should have 3 gold gloves by now. The only thing dumber is when he says Ozzie should have 3 World Series rings with the Sox already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(Princess Dye @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:00 PM) RE: Fields.... Crede's a great fielder. If there's no trade, he's gonna play. Fields would have had to KO him this spring and didnt. Fault them for their overall logic of winning now, fine. But this is in line with it. Crede was a great fielder. He hasn't shown those same abilities post-back surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(Princess Dye @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 09:00 PM) RE: Fields.... Crede's a great fielder. If there's no trade, he's gonna play. Fields would have had to KO him this spring and didnt. Fault them for their overall logic of winning now, fine. But this is in line with it. I'm pretty sure Fields was better in every category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(iamshack @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 08:55 PM) If there is anything minor league pitchers can do, it is throw "average" fastballs. It's the secondary pitches that they can't throw. My comparison of Fields to Howard was not a comparison of the situation. My comparison is that a guy who had "mastered" the minor leagues FAR MORE than Josh Fields has managed not to have his career stunted or retarded, or any other ridiculously hyperbolic verb you want to attach to the situation. Josh Fields AAA at-bats - ~670 Ryan Howard AAA at-bats - ~320 Howard got a cup-of-coffee in Scranton (Philly's AAA affiliate) in 2004. In 2005 -- the year Thome got hurt -- Howard started off the year in AAA, which is justifiable given how much the Phillies had invested in Thome and also given that Howard only had a little more than 100 at-bats above AAA. How, again, are these situations comparable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Man, you know, I don't like seeing Fields in AAA but some of you guys are completely insane. It's funny to read too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 03:56 PM) I have such a problem with playing a guy you know won't be back with the organization in 2009 for a guy who should be a cornerstone of the offense for the next 5 years. Honestly, for someone who has SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE of baseball, I have an incredible time understanding how you honestly think that our entire season, let alone the first month of the season, is going to be decided by who starts for us at third base in April. It's pretty damn apparent to me that the fortunes of this team are going to be decided by our starting pitching- and therefore the defense behind that pitching- along with the guys at the top of our order, and not whether Josh are Joe are in there to begin the season. This is not Game 1 of the World Series, and this is not sitting down Jim Thome and Paul Konerko for Brad Eldred and Paul Phillips for the month of April. Now you know I absolutely hate the fact that Owens is going to get the starting nod over Brian Anderson to start the season, but in all likelihood, these moves are not going to be the ones that determine whether we are winning and losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 03:54 PM) Between decimating the minor leages system and the unnecessary contracts (Hall, Uribe, Dye), I wonder if failing this year would take some of the starch out of KW's collar. That's $13.4M in contracts right there. Add Crede's...that's $18.3M I'm also hoping that Dotel's worth the 5M also he's getting....that's some pretty hefty coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:02 PM) Crede was a great fielder. He hasn't shown those same abilities post-back surgery. He looked pretty darn good yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I remember the rumored trade with Dye to Boston last year for Wily Mo and a pitcher, and I hated that idea. But now since then, I so wish that trade would have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 09:02 PM) The legend grows. It's like people who say Rowand was an unbelievable fielder. I can't wait to hear Hawk state every game how Crede should have 3 gold gloves by now. The only thing dumber is when he says Ozzie should have 3 World Series rings with the Sox already. Even at Crede's best, I doubt he was as good as Brandon Inge and Pedro Feliz. I'd even bet that there are several who are right on par with him, such as Ryan Zimmerman, (a healthy) Eric Chavez and Mike Lowell. The legend will only grow once Crede is gone, by the way. By the time I'm 40, I'm pretty sure Crede will have hit 50 homers during the 2005 season and had range going all the way to the second-base bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(iamshack @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 09:05 PM) Honestly, for someone who has SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE of baseball, I have an incredible time understanding how you honestly think that our entire season, let alone the first month of the season, is going to be decided by who starts for us at third base in April. It's pretty damn apparent to me that the fortunes of this team are going to be decided by our starting pitching- and therefore the defense behind that pitching- along with the guys at the top of our order, and not whether Josh are Joe are in there to begin the season. This is not Game 1 of the World Series, and this is not sitting down Jim Thome and Paul Konerko for Brad Eldred and Paul Phillips for the month of April. Now you know I absolutely hate the fact that Owens is going to get the starting nod over Brian Anderson to start the season, but in all likelihood, these moves are not going to be the ones that determine whether we are winning and losing. I think having Fields in our lineup against LHP significantly improves our fortunes. We were the worst team in the AL against LHP last season. Considering we have to suffer with Toby Hall again, I almost wish we kept Fields on the bench (if he wasn't going to start), and platoon him with Thome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:06 PM) Even at Crede's best, I doubt he was as good as Brandon Inge and Pedro Feliz. I'd even bet that there are several who are right on par with him, such as Ryan Zimmerman, (a healthy) Eric Chavez and Mike Lowell. The legend will only grow once Crede is gone, by the way. By the time I'm 40, I'm pretty sure Crede will have hit 50 homers during the 2005 season and had range going all the way to the second-base bag. lol and spit in the eye of opposing pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 02:06 PM) I remember the rumored trade with Dye to Boston last year for Wily Mo and a pitcher, and I hated that idea. But now since then, I so wish that trade would have happened. We probably never would have traded for Quentin and Swisher if we'd made that deal, and WMP would probably be starting for us in RF this season. Our OF would probably look like ??? in LF, Owens in CF, Pena in RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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