Dick Allen Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Aaron Rowand hit .171 in spring training last year. The scouting reports said his bat had slowed so much he might be done. He only got $65 million this past winter. Crede probably won't hit .300, but he'll be fine, and while he did struggle defensively at the beginning of spring, he's been much better the past couple weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:03 PM) Josh Fields AAA at-bats - ~670 Ryan Howard AAA at-bats - ~320 Howard got a cup-of-coffee in Scranton (Philly's AAA affiliate) in 2004. In 2005 -- the year Thome got hurt -- Howard started off the year in AAA, which is justifiable given how much the Phillies had invested in Thome and also given that Howard only had a little more than 100 at-bats above AAA. How, again, are these situations comparable? Howard dominated every step of the way throughout his minor league career. And pretty much every baseball fan on the planet earth knew he was ready for MLB after 2004. And yet, sitting in Scranton for another 210 ab's until Thome was too hurt to continue playing in 05' certainly did not stunt his growth or retard his career. That, again, is how these situations are comparable. The only reason they may not be comparable is because Fields had nowhere near the minor league career Howard did, and yet, people claim he has "mastered" the level and has nothing left to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 so, the opening day lineup is pretty much official, isn't it? 1. Ozuna, 2B 2. Cabrera, SS 3. Swisher, LF 4. Konerko, 1B 5. Thome, DH 6. Dye, RF 7. Pierzynski, C 8. Crede, 3B 9. Owens, LF wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(iamshack @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:09 PM) Howard dominated every step of the way throughout his minor league career. And pretty much every baseball fan on the planet earth knew he was ready for MLB after 2004. And yet, sitting in Scranton for another 210 ab's until Thome was too hurt to continue playing in 05' certainly did not stunt his growth or retard his career. That, again, is how these situations are comparable. The only reason they may not be comparable is because Fields had nowhere near the minor league career Howard did, and yet, people claim he has "mastered" the level and has nothing left to learn. last time I checked, Howard didn't have a great rookie season, and then get sent back down to AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:06 PM) Even at Crede's best, I doubt he was as good as Brandon Inge and Pedro Feliz. I'd even bet that there are several who are right on par with him, such as Ryan Zimmerman, (a healthy) Eric Chavez and Mike Lowell. Hey...I'm not saying that Crede's Brooks Rob II.....but Brandon Inge? I haven't seen Feliz play enough to make a judgement...but Inge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(iamshack @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 09:09 PM) Howard dominated every step of the way throughout his minor league career. And pretty much every baseball fan on the planet earth knew he was ready for MLB after 2004. And yet, sitting in Scranton for another 210 ab's until Thome was too hurt to continue playing in 05' certainly did not stunt his growth or retard his career. That, again, is how these situations are comparable. So it does have to do with Thome, because they quite clearly had a lot invested in Thome. That isn't at all comparable to Crede -- the only investment the Sox have in him is ~$5 million (a marginal amount) and our GM's ill-conceived perception of said-third-baseman's value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 09:09 PM) so, the opening day lineup is pretty much official, isn't it? 1. Ozuna, 2B 2. Cabrera, SS 3. Swisher, LF 4. Konerko, 1B 5. Thome, DH 6. Dye, RF 7. Pierzynski, C 8. Crede, 3B 9. Owens, LF wow. Owens won't start opening day. I think we'll see Ramirez in CF. Ozzie has to be careful how he uses Ramirez. He's going to struggle with sharp offspeed pitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Legit question....how many positions are the Sox better at than the Tigers? DH and LF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:10 PM) last time I checked, Howard didn't have a great rookie season, and then get sent back down to AAA. No, he didn't get as many ab's in his callup in 04' because of Thome, but he still posted an .897 OPS in the limited time he did play. That, combined with his numbers in the minor leagues until that point, certainly didn't provide any proof whatsoever that he wasn't ready. And yet he went down to Scranton, tore it up again, and *somehow* managed to still be one of the best young hitters in baseball when he returned to the big leagues again later in 05'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:12 PM) Owens won't start opening day. I think we'll see Ramirez in CF. Ozzie has to be careful how he uses Ramirez. He's going to struggle with sharp offspeed pitches. well, rumors are now that Owens will start the season on the DL. So, that would make Ramirez the likely starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:12 PM) So it does have to do with Thome, because they quite clearly had a lot invested in Thome. That isn't at all comparable to Crede -- the only investment the Sox have in him is ~$5 million (a marginal amount) and our GM's ill-conceived perception of said-third-baseman's value. I'm not arguing, nor have I ever, that this is the "ideal" situation for Fields. What I am arguing is that it is pure fiction and ridiculously uninformed speculation to suggest that Fields' career will be retarded by going back to Charlotte to work on some things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 09:13 PM) well, rumors are now that Owens will start the season on the DL. So, that would make Ramirez the likely starter. It would be a joke if Ramirez started in CF over Anderson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(iamshack @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:15 PM) I'm not arguing, nor have I ever, that this is the "ideal" situation for Fields. What I am arguing is that it is pure fiction and ridiculously uninformed speculation to suggest that Fields' career will be retarded by going back to Charlotte to work on some things. Do you think that facing Tim Redding, Felix Diaz and Toma Ohka are great preparations for facing Verlander or CC, or Liriano. Are their stuff comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:16 PM) It would be a joke if Ramirez started in CF over Anderson. Yes it would... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(iamshack @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:15 PM) I'm not arguing, nor have I ever, that this is the "ideal" situation for Fields. What I am arguing is that it is pure fiction and ridiculously uninformed speculation to suggest that Fields' career will be retarded by going back to Charlotte to work on some things. What don't you get about talent levels!? What Josh Fields need to work on is facing MLB pitching, not facing primarily AAAA pitchers. Add that to the fact you will be messing with him mentally (KW saying all this crap about him being the guy, him actually outpreforming Crede in ST, etc), you can severly retard his development. Edited March 25, 2008 by BearSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 02:16 PM) It would be a joke if Ramirez started in CF over Anderson. He will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:17 PM) Do you think that facing Tim Redding, Felix Diaz and Toma Ohka are great preparations for facing Verlander or CC, or Liriano. Are their stuff comparable. Well, considering Fields has struck out about 35% of the time in Charlotte, yes, he certainly has more to learn. And if you think the league won't make adjustments to Fields this season- and eat him alive with inside fastballs- I think you're sadly mistaken. He needs to learn how to hit average fastballs before he'll ever hit Verlander, CC, or Liriano's stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:17 PM) Do you think that facing Tim Redding, Felix Diaz and Toma Ohka are great preparations for facing Verlander or CC, or Liriano. Are their stuff comparable. What's the argument...should he be sent down or not? If Crede's starting...why shouldn't he at least be getting at bats in game situations everyday instead of bp before games and fossilizing on the bench or playing every 4 days or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 03:16 PM) It would be a joke if Ramirez started in CF over Anderson. They would then have to dedicate every April 1st to KW and Ozzie for April Fool's day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(iamshack @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 09:15 PM) What I am arguing is that it is pure fiction and ridiculously uninformed speculation to suggest that Fields' career will be retarded by going back to Charlotte to work on some things. If you're just arguing that, I will back off a bit and digress. In no way is this smart roster management, though (which you haven't argued for or against, so this is not a 'claim' against you). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:16 PM) It would be a joke if Ramirez started in CF over Anderson. I think Ramirez vs. C.C. is a better matchup then Anderson vs. C.C., so that is why I would have Ramirez start ahead of Anderson on opening day, but after that, I'd give Anderson the majority of the playing time out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:18 PM) What don't you get about talent levels!? What Josh Fields need to work on is facing MLB pitching, not facing primarily AAAA pitchers. Add that to the fact you will be messing with him mentally (KW saying all this crap about him being the guy, him actually outpreforming Crede in ST, etc), you can severly retard his development. I'm not sure if you have a child or not, but perhaps you have a niece or nephew or something. Would you expect him/her to walk before they crawl? Run before they walk? I understand talent levels. And Josh has enough athletic ability to survive against MLB pitching because of his power, but he certainly has things he can learn against lesser talent that will help him become a more complete hitter and help his career in the long run, as opposed to ruining his career or stunting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:18 PM) What don't you get about talent levels!? What Josh Fields need to work on is facing MLB pitching, not facing primarily AAAA pitchers. Add that to the fact you will be messing with him mentally (KW saying all this crap about him being the guy, him actually outpreforming Crede in ST, etc), you can severly retard his development. Fields has always known that if Crede was on the roster he was going to AAA. KW has said all along they will not be on the roster together. Crede will be show cased and traded. The same applies to Uribe. The added bonus is that the service time clock is started later and the Sox prevent his free agency by another year. The only smart decision for the team is to send him down to work on defense and cutting down his strike outs by playing everyday and call him up when Crede is traded within a month or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 05:22 PM) I think Ramirez vs. C.C. is a better matchup then Anderson vs. C.C., so that is why I would have Ramirez start ahead of Anderson on opening day, but after that, I'd give Anderson the majority of the playing time out there. I recall last year in one of those ridiculously cold games Anderson was actually the only one that hit CC hard all that afternoon, he hit a flyout to deep center but on that day the wind was heavy and it probably would've been a HR any other day. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 QUOTE(ptatc @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:28 PM) Fields has always known that if Crede was on the roster he was going to AAA. KW has said all along they will not be on the roster together. Crede will be show cased and traded. The same applies to Uribe. The added bonus is that the service time clock is started later and the Sox prevent his free agency by another year. The only smart decision for the team is to send him down to work on defense and cutting down his strike outs by playing everyday and call him up when Crede is traded within a month or so. I believe Josh should play every day. So for that part I have no problem with him going down. I just dont think that him hitting in AAA is going to project to him hitting in the majors. But lets not make any bones about this, Crede will be here until July at the least. Kenny wants a team to give up the most for Crede. If he wanted to just dump him it would of happened already. They are not going to let him play for a month and then spin him. The best scenario for KW is to hold on to him until the trade deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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