The joke that is KW and the White Sox

[Princess Dye]

also, it's funny to me how people keep lumping Crede and Uribe together. Crede's last healthy year was an outstanding 2006. Offensively and defensively.

[max power]

Actually, I was quite high on the White Sox going into 2005 because of their pitching staff and the addition of a true leadoff hitter and a catcher who could actually hit. Do you remember before 05 when we had 5th starter woes? What do you think of 3rd, 4th, AND 5th starter woes?

I'd sooner believe you are high now.

[thedoctor]

I'd sooner believe you are high now.

 

[lostfan]

What do you think of 3rd, 4th, AND 5th starter woes?

Of all the things you're pissed off about, why isn't THIS in your OP? You don't even mention Garland, or anything yet you complain about having an overcrowded outfield as if that was a bad thing coming off a season in which we had Terrero and Erstad playing a ton of games.

[Princess Dye]

Actually, I was quite high on the White Sox going into 2005 because of their pitching staff and the addition of a true leadoff hitter and a catcher who could actually hit. Do you remember before 05 when we had 5th starter woes? What do you think of 3rd, 4th, AND 5th starter woes?

 

3.12, 3.87, 3.61, 3.50, 5.12

 

These are the ERAs from the guys on that 2005 staff. We are not as far from this as everyone purports. Certainly not close, but lets not romanticize that year's pitching. A divorce-less Jose up year, and one guy surprises us.... just sayin lets play the games.

 

Just like that year, we need to belt a lot of runs. This part of the equation does not change with us.

Edited March 26, 2008 by Princess Dye

[lostfan]

3.12, 3.87, 3.61, 3.50, 5.12

 

These are the ERAs from the guys on that 2005 staff. We are not as far from this as everyone purports. Certainly not close, but lets not romanticize that year's pitching. A divorce-less Jose up year, and one guy surprises us.... just sayin lets play the games.

 

Just like that year, we need to belt a lot of runs. This part of the equation does not change with us.

4 guys in the rotation with ERAs in the 3s?

 

Yes, yes we are. For this entire rotation to do that would be kind of miraculous.

[max power]

What we should be comparing is what they had going into 2005, not what they had in 2005. Not just their ERAs either. El Duque only pitched like 90 innings in 04.

Edited March 26, 2008 by max power

[Disco72]

What we should be comparing is what they had going into 2005, not what they had in 2005.

 

ERAs in 2004 of B-le, Garcia, Garland, Count, and Duque: 3.89, 3.81, 4.89, 5.53, 3.30 (in only 84.2 innings).

ERAs in 2007 of B-le, Vaz, Floyd, Count, and Danks: 3.63, 3.74, 5.27, 5.57, 5.50 (Floyd: 70IP, Danks: 139IP)

 

EDIT: added 2007 stats

Edited March 26, 2008 by Disco72

[max power]

ERAs in 2004 of B-le, Garcia, Garland, Count, and Duque: 3.89, 3.81, 4.89, 5.53, 3.30 (in only 84.2 innings).

And we definitely aren't very far from that.

[Harry Chappas]

I don't blame him for Richar breaking a rib. I blame him for not taking a golden opportunity to move Juan Uribe. He could have just as easily signed Marcus Giles whose production would be downright identical at 1/5 of Uribe's salary. Uribe knows he's unwanted, and now he's still here. They are throwing away money, but like I said that's not my problem. I actually watch these games though, and watching Uribe for ONE MORE AT BAT will be one too many.

 

Interesting tidbit from Jason Grey today.

 

If Uribe is not resigned do you think the Angels make the Garland trade straight up? If Uribe is not resigned the Sox have no bargaining power as the Angels had 5 dependable starters on paper at that time.

 

Marcus Giles......come on.

[iamshack]

Speaking of Garland and the Angels, they are thanking their lucky stars that they made that deal now. Escobar may be out for the season now, and Lackey is hurt...

[RME JICO]

Speaking of Garland and the Angels, they are thanking their lucky stars that they made that deal now. Escobar may be out for the season now, and Lackey is hurt...

Wow, that makes Garland their #1.

Edited March 26, 2008 by RME JICO

[Balta1701]

Wow, that makess Garland their #1.

Jared Weaver might have something to say about that pretty soon.

[Steve9347]

Wow, that makess Garland their #1.

cough, Jered Weaver, cough.

[RME JICO]

cough, Jered Weaver, cough.

Not according to their website: http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/team/dept...ex.jsp?c_id=ana

 

Garland was listed 3rd.

[Disco72]

Not according to their website: http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/team/dept...ex.jsp?c_id=ana

 

Garland was listed 3rd.

 

 

The Angels don't look so tough in the West now with that rotation.

[ptatc]

Summarizing the many gaffes of the Chicago White Sox in just one offseason.

Juan Uribe

To no one's surprise, less than a week after placing Juan Uribe on waivers, the White Sox seem to now be planning to start him at second base.

 

Certainly, he was placed on waivers because everyone assumed the team was finally ready to move on from his horrible .234 AVG/.284 OBP last season. Luckily, for Kenny Williams and the franchise, some team actually wanted Uribe enough to claim him AND the 4.5 million salary that comes along with him.

 

All of Soxdom cheers as Juan Uribe, the most unwatchable hitter in the Major Leagues, he of the expanding ass, is gone! Hallelujah! Party in the streets!

 

So what does KW do? He PULLS URIBE BACK, thinking he can squeeze a low A-ball reliever out of what I presume to be the Baltimore Orioles (but possibly SF/LAD). Guess what? Claiming team tells him to screw off, and now we're stuck with Uribe.

 

OK, that's fine, whatever, it's not my money. We've got Sexy 'Lexi looking good, and Richar's only out a few weeks (news that broke the same day Uribe was placed on waivers, surely making this somewhat difficult for Kenny, but not really). I mean, seriously, if you're worried about that, let Juan go and sign Marcus Giles for something like 700k and save yourself a lot of money while getting roughly the same production. ANYWAY, We've got Alexei Ramirez, we've got Richar coming back, it just made sense to be rid of Uribe... finally and forever.

 

Now, we're stuck with him, and of course he's going to start at 2B on Opening Day. Heaven forbid we not have to watch that fool hack at balls in the dirt for one more season. This is quite possibly the oddest turnaround for a player I've ever seen, to go from waived for the purposes of being rid of him to starting for the same team that waived him less than two weeks later.

Josh Fields

As if one goofup wasn't enough, we now have the Great 3B Question of 2008. For any other franchise (save maybe the almost as moronic Tampa Bay Rays), this one is simple. Move Crede, regardless of return, and continue the development of the only prospect worth a s*** in your organization. Josh Fields burst onto the scene in 2007, through 100 games blasting 23 homers and 67 RBI (albeit with only a .308 OBP). A work in progress, but the progress is obviously ready to continue in the Majors.

 

The fact that Josh Fields, after the production he had last year, is being sent down is an utter catastrophe. Another case of Kenny overvaluing what he has in Joe Crede (see Juan Uribe and pulling him back). Seriously, Joe Crede is what he is... a Scott Boras client, coming off major back surgery in the final year of his contract who had one of the worst Spring Trainings in baseball. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO GET FOR HIM? Yes, 2005 was great, but it was time for Crede to move on. One player with a forced foot out the door is enough, but this team has two. That's not how you create a championship ballclub.

Centerfield, Leftfield, where's Swish going to play, who the hell's in our outfield?

Yet another screwup by management by over-crowding our outfield. With Jerry Owens in-house and being given every chance to start for this team, it's obvious that management thinks incredibly highly of him and had no intention on anyone else starting in CF. So why was Nick Swisher fielding there in Spring Training? Now, Brian Anderson has had his ups and downs. However, KW has managed to not move him regardless of what he's said about him to the press and how he's handled Anderson. So here's BA, to no one's surprise a talented player having been a first round draft pick, raking in Spring Training, yet Jerry Owens gets all of 36 at bats in Spring Training and it's obvious management was going to hand him the starting job. However, it seems he's being DL'd right before the season starts. We're 5 days away from Opening Day, and the outfield is filled with questions. Now, with "Black Prancer" DL'd, Anderson's the obvious choice to start, and I hope he continues to rake as I've always been a fan regardless of what this franchise has tried to do to him.

 

Now, here's Carlos Quentin, a guy KW got for Chris Carter, one of many of our top prospects who would be moved this offseason, and Quentin might start the season in AAA or a backup role (correct me if something's been announced already). The perception when he was acquired is that he's a high-upside, power bat (with good OBP), and the trade was a steal. Even I thought so. Then, not long after that, KW trades 3 more of our top prospects for Nick Swisher, whom he forces to play some games in CF in Spring Training, and never gives a defined role to... CF, LF, lead off, 3-hole, 6-spot, where's he going to play? The guy who everyone considers this franchise's cornerstone is not being given a defined role. He's being juggled around. Luckily for the White Sox he's a class act and hasn't complained.

Summary

My main argument here is that management has no gameplan. Now, I understand Kenny holds onto the weird notion that the White Sox are going to compete this year. That's fine, delusional GMs eventually get fired. However, have you ever seen a true title contender have so many question marks heading into a season? Absolutely not.

 

Yeah, I jumped around a lot, but this is a lot of stupidity for one offseason. If the White Sox do what we think they will (hover around .500 or worse) with their 3-5 starters all being huge question marks and a lineup that still tries to only hit homeruns aside from its 33 year old shortstop, what will we have to show for it? I believe another relatively high draft pick that we can combine with this year's high pick to trade for another guy who will help Mr. AARP Jim Thome and co. flounder toward a .500 finish. Maybe we'll throw Poreda into that trade as well.

 

/rant

 

Do you honestly think they don't have a plan or are you just trying to stir up trouble? The plan is obvious. They wanted to trade both Uribe and Crede but had no takers. They have to start both of them to drum up trade value. It sucks in the short run but will be better in the long run. Uribe was on waivers to see ifthe could pull him back and make a trade. It hasn't happened yet but it will. the sox will gain a player from the Crede trade and another year of service for Fields. i don't think there is ever a problem with too many good players. Who wouldn't known that Anderson would have put his head on straight this year when he hasn't in the past? Quentin if not used extensively this year is the replacemenbt for Dye next year, it is not a waste to season him a little more.

 

For all your complaining about there being no plan, I see a good plan with backups built in for injury cases. We have a few older players so you see waste and redundancy, I see backup plan. The plan is obvious, you just don't like it.

[NorthSideSox72]

Do you honestly think they don't have a plan or are you just trying to stir up trouble? The plan is obvious. They wanted to trade both Uribe and Crede but had no takers. They have to start both of them to drum up trade value. It sucks in the short run but will be better in the long run. Uribe was on waivers to see ifthe could pull him back and make a trade. It hasn't happened yet but it will. the sox will gain a player from the Crede trade and another year of service for Fields. i don't think there is ever a problem with too many good players. Who wouldn't known that Anderson would have put his head on straight this year when he hasn't in the past? Quentin if not used extensively this year is the replacemenbt for Dye next year, it is not a waste to season him a little more.

 

For all your complaining about there being no plan, I see a good plan with backups built in for injury cases. We have a few older players so you see waste and redundancy, I see backup plan. The plan is obvious, you just don't like it.

*applause*

 

[BearSox]

Do you honestly think they don't have a plan or are you just trying to stir up trouble? The plan is obvious. They wanted to trade both Uribe and Crede but had no takers. They have to start both of them to drum up trade value. It sucks in the short run but will be better in the long run. Uribe was on waivers to see ifthe could pull him back and make a trade. It hasn't happened yet but it will. the sox will gain a player from the Crede trade and another year of service for Fields. i don't think there is ever a problem with too many good players. Who wouldn't known that Anderson would have put his head on straight this year when he hasn't in the past? Quentin if not used extensively this year is the replacemenbt for Dye next year, it is not a waste to season him a little more.

 

For all your complaining about there being no plan, I see a good plan with backups built in for injury cases. We have a few older players so you see waste and redundancy, I see backup plan. The plan is obvious, you just don't like it.

I fail to see how's that possible now since Dye is signed to a fairly large contract for 2 more years after this season... and Dye has regressed more so then any other player in baseball over the past year. So, if has the type of year I see him having, it's gonna be a tough to unload him.

 

And are you seriously gonna sit there and tell me the Giants will not give anything for either Crede or Uribe, when they are going to have players from a-ball to start for them. Kenny Williams has some sick dillusion that Crede and Uribe are actually worth something more via trade. There is no reason why we should have pulled Uribe back from waivers. The other team would take on his 4.5 million dollar contract, that is incentive enough to let him go bye-bye.

[iamshack]

This is obviously just a stubborn difference of opinion between fans, and we aren't getting anywhere with it. Let's just let it die.

 

Edited March 26, 2008 by iamshack

[max power]

I fail to see how's that possible now since Dye is signed to a fairly large contract for 2 more years after this season... and Dye has regressed more so then any other player in baseball over the past year. So, if has the type of year I see him having, it's gonna be a tough to unload him.

 

And are you seriously gonna sit there and tell me the Giants will not give anything for either Crede or Uribe, when they are going to have players from a-ball to start for them. Kenny Williams has some sick dillusion that Crede and Uribe are actually worth something more via trade. There is no reason why we should have pulled Uribe back from waivers. The other team would take on his 4.5 million dollar contract, that is incentive enough to let him go bye-bye.

To say dye regressed is a bunch of bull. His whole career has been up and down.

[witesoxfan]

I fail to see how's that possible now since Dye is signed to a fairly large contract for 2 more years after this season... and Dye has regressed more so then any other player in baseball over the past year. So, if has the type of year I see him having, it's gonna be a tough to unload him.

 

And are you seriously gonna sit there and tell me the Giants will not give anything for either Crede or Uribe, when they are going to have players from a-ball to start for them. Kenny Williams has some sick dillusion that Crede and Uribe are actually worth something more via trade. There is no reason why we should have pulled Uribe back from waivers. The other team would take on his 4.5 million dollar contract, that is incentive enough to let him go bye-bye.

 

Not being extreme there are at all.

 

I don't understand why you have so much angst against players over 30. The Sox have replacements in house for many of them (Fields for Crede, Richar for Uribe, Ramirez for Cabrera, Quentin for Dye, Swisher for Thome), and the said players over 30, Crede and Uribe not included (in my mind), are all better than their younger counterparts.

 

I also don't understand why you suddenly think Dye is going to fall off the face of the planet. A 200 point drop in OPS is nothing to scoff at, but it's not like it should be used for the sole reason he should not have been kept. He did put up an OPS over 1.000 in 2006, and he put up a .947 OPS in the second half of last year. What's to say he's not healthy and he won't put up a .900 OPS? What's to say he doesn't just merely put up his average .825-.850ish season?

 

Dye takes a lot of flak around here from some people, and that's one thing I really don't understand. He was horrendous in the first half of last year, but I don't think a lot of people realize that he actually ended last year extremely well.

[BearSox]

To say dye regressed is a bunch of bull. His whole career has been up and down.

 

When he has been healthy, Dye has preformed. If you call down him being always injured, I guess his career was up and down. He wasn't injured last year however, and last time I checked, having super slow bat speed is not an injury.

[Balta1701]

When he has been healthy, Dye has preformed. If you call down him being always injured, I guess his career was up and down. He wasn't injured last year however, and last time I checked, having super slow bat speed is not an injury.

Dye didn't miss much time because of them and wasn't put on the DL, but he was reported as being banged up pretty much the whole first half last year, especially in his legs.. He really didn't start getting healthy until the AS Break. He probably should have been DL'd in all honesty.

09/05/2007 0 days out Strained left quadriceps

07/07/2007 0 days out Flu-like symptoms

06/23/2007 0 days out Sore left quadriceps muscle

06/18/2007 0 days out Strained left quad

04/25/2007 0 days out Sore lower back

[BearSox]

well, he still must be injured, because this spring training, Dye's bat has looked slower then ever. I still think that 3 years, 30 some million dollar deal we gave him was f***ing stupid. We could really use those 2 draft picks (especially since we are losing one for the Linebrink signing, which I hate as well). We'll, I'm still excited about Quentin and he'll be fun to watch, whenever he gets healthy and gets his chance.

Edited March 26, 2008 by BearSox