witesoxfan Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 05:23 PM) bearsox, ST is not the end all to be all. Just because Dye struggles in ST, doesn't mean he's going to suck this season. Post ASB last season, his OPS was above .900 last season IIRC. He has shown what he's capable of when he's fully healthy. He's argubly our best hitter when he's in form. I'd never say that's arguable; perhaps the best right handed hitter, or the best non-left handed hitter, but there's no way anyone will ever convince me that, with every player at top form, Jim Thome is not the best hitter on this team. He put up a .975 OPS last year and didn't seem fully healthy all year. QUOTE(chisoxt @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 09:16 PM) I agree with you on about every point. Kenny is a poor GM with a lifetime contract. I do not understand how most people can favor a trade for Swisher for top prospects, while many of these same people project the Sox as a .500 team at best and out of contention. At some point, your farm system will run out of players. Then what? Because you have Swisher locked up through 2012. That's 5 years of atleast an .850 bat in the middle of the lineup. If you are lucky, Ryan Sweeney would have given you 2 years of that, and it likely would take until 2010 or 2011 for him to do that. Gio Gonzalez will, in my mind, make the trade look bad for the White Sox, but I also imagine his ERA would be over a point higher at the Cell, and perhaps more. DLS still seems like he's destined for the bullpen when it's all said and done, and even if he's a fantastic reliever, it's still only about 70-80 innings. I think the Swisher trade is one that will work out very well for both teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 05:23 PM) bearsox, ST is not the end all to be all. Just because Dye struggles in ST, doesn't mean he's going to suck this season. Post ASB last season, his OPS was above .900 last season IIRC. He has shown what he's capable of when he's fully healthy. He's argubly our best hitter when he's in form. It's not his stats that worry me, it's his play. When I evaluate a player, I look at their play first and fore-most. And right now, Dye is slower then molasses. Not only is he slow in the field, but he has absolutely no bat speed. I've seen rusty gates move faster then Dye's bat. And Dye's slow bat has been why he has such a bad spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 11:49 PM) He said that Fields it was Fields job to lose going into spring training. He lied the same way Joe Maddon lied about the Longoria situation. I must have missed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 07:54 AM) I must have missed that. No kidding. Last checked, KW said if Joe is here, he is starting and Fields will be in AAA. Which is exactly what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 07:57 AM) No kidding. Last checked, KW said if Joe is here, he is starting and Fields will be in AAA. Which is exactly what happened. I don't ever remember Josh being annointed the starter either... Do you have a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 (edited) If Fields had been "anointed" the starter then it would've made absolutely zero sense to offer Crede arbitration. It would've been like getting Swisher and then picking up Erstad's option. A dumb move even by this board's crazy standards. In other words, no, Fields was never anointed the starter. Edited March 27, 2008 by lostfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(The Beast @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 09:27 AM) I just am curious about the makeup 25-man roster and if KW keeps Masset over Wassermann, which potentially could be a truly stupid move. I think that is how it is going to go down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(The Beast @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 10:27 AM) I just am curious about the makeup 25-man roster and if KW keeps Masset over Wassermann, which potentially could be a truly stupid move. If the Sox keep Wasserman (who I like, by the way), just wait until one of Count/Floyd/Danks goes 2-3 innings and/or the game goes into extras and Ozzie has to destroy one of his "one inning" guys (pretty much the rest of the pen) like he did Vizcaino in 2005. I'm sure people will find it pretty stupid that we don't have an innings eater to take those innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 That's a damn good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(Disco72 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 09:30 AM) If the Sox keep Wasserman (who I like, by the way), just wait until one of Count/Floyd/Danks goes 2-3 innings and/or the game goes into extras and Ozzie has to destroy one of his "one inning" guys (pretty much the rest of the pen) like he did Vizcaino in 2005. I'm sure people will find it pretty stupid that we don't have an innings eater to take those innings. The better solution to that may have been to keep Masset and Wassermann, and send MacDougal down to AAA or trade him (if that was possible). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(Disco72 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 02:30 PM) If the Sox keep Wasserman (who I like, by the way), just wait until one of Count/Floyd/Danks goes 2-3 innings and/or the game goes into extras and Ozzie has to destroy one of his "one inning" guys (pretty much the rest of the pen) like he did Vizcaino in 2005. I'm sure people will find it pretty stupid that we don't have an innings eater to take those innings. I'd rather have the superior pitchers in Wasserman and MacDougal on the roster, and let some other team claim Masset. Maybe if Ozzie won't overmanage his bullpen and not be obsessed with lefty/righty situations, we won't run out of bullpen guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 09:35 AM) The better solution to that may have been to keep Masset and Wassermann, and send MacDougal down to AAA or trade him (if that was possible). MacDougal hasn't given up a run in over 3 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 02:35 PM) The better solution to that may have been to keep Masset and Wassermann, and send MacDougal down to AAA or trade him (if that was possible). MacDougal is throwing quite well right now. Why trade him at his lowest possible value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 02:40 PM) MacDougal hasn't given up a run in over 3 weeks. Yet some people are read to annoint Dotel as our bullpen's saviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 09:40 AM) MacDougal hasn't given up a run in over 3 weeks. He definitely seems to have stabilized a bit. But as MacD has a history of doing worse the more pressure he's under, I'll be surprised (pleasantly) if he actually does well during the regular season. Hey, if he does well, great - the team will be getting its money's worth. I just think that Wassermann's chances at success are better than MacDougal's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 10:46 AM) He definitely seems to have stabilized a bit. But as MacD has a history of doing worse the more pressure he's under, I'll be surprised (pleasantly) if he actually does well during the regular season. Hey, if he does well, great - the team will be getting its money's worth. I just think that Wassermann's chances at success are better than MacDougal's. MacDougal is a filthy pitcher by any standards, and when it's going for him it's great. But it seems he starts feeling the need to overcompensate and starts trying to knock AJ into the backstop when he doesn't need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 09:41 AM) Yet some people are read to annoint Dotel as our bullpen's saviour. Dotel has always been brutal in spring training though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(lostfan @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 09:51 AM) MacDougal is a filthy pitcher by any standards, and when it's going for him it's great. But it seems he starts feeling the need to overcompensate and starts trying to knock AJ into the backstop when he doesn't need to. I guess, once they get to the major league level, I am more results-oriented than method-oriented. MacDougal can have all the flithy stuff in the world, but its been since 2006 that he's been good at getting guys out. And throughout his career, he does works in pressure scenarios (runners on, runners inherited, scoring position, close and late) than otherwise. That's just not the guy I'd choose for the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I'm not a huge fan of Masset, but he's the last guy out of the pen. Hopefully, he'll only be needed for mop-up duty, and it is silly to think we won't need some mop-up given the rotation. I'm optimistic about the 3-4-5, but each of them will still struggle at times. The Sox have some good talent in the bullpen but have a real problem with guys who have had injuries or are not effective for more than an inning. Not having a long guy is a problem waiting to happen. If Masset sucks, bring up Haeger or Broadway to fill that role. It doesn't make sense to waste our "good" bullpen guys in blowouts, and there are going to be some bad days in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 10:53 AM) I guess, once they get to the major league level, I am more results-oriented than method-oriented. MacDougal can have all the flithy stuff in the world, but its been since 2006 that he's been good at getting guys out. And throughout his career, he does works in pressure scenarios (runners on, runners inherited, scoring position, close and late) than otherwise. That's just not the guy I'd choose for the pen. I'm just saying it seems like it's been all mental, and I don't know when or why it started. He used to be a really good pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 09:40 AM) I'd rather have the superior pitchers in Wasserman and MacDougal on the roster, and let some other team claim Masset. Maybe if Ozzie won't overmanage his bullpen and not be obsessed with lefty/righty situations, we won't run out of bullpen guys. With 5 inning-Danks, Floyd, and a scary Contreras in the starting rotation, I want a guy who can give us 3-4-5 innings in the pen. I don't want to blow up all of these guys because one situational 6th inning guy pitched better in spring training and late last year. We need the guy who makes the most sense to the set up of the team. Even if it isn't Masset, we need a guy who can suck up innings in case starters falter. If Wasserman wants to be that guy, he had better stretch out that arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 08:45 AM) I don't ever remember Josh being annointed the starter either... Do you have a link? reread my post, I said that Joe would be the starter if he was here, not Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 10:03 AM) reread my post, I said that Joe would be the starter if he was here, not Josh I am agreeing with you, and questioning Steve... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 10:07 AM) I am agreeing with you, and questioning Steve... "I see", said the blind man..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 03:00 PM) With 5 inning-Danks, Floyd, and a scary Contreras in the starting rotation, I want a guy who can give us 3-4-5 innings in the pen. I don't want to blow up all of these guys because one situational 6th inning guy pitched better in spring training and late last year. We need the guy who makes the most sense to the set up of the team. Even if it isn't Masset, we need a guy who can suck up innings in case starters falter. If Wasserman wants to be that guy, he had better stretch out that arm. How many times since Ozzie's been with the Sox has he pulled a starter before 5 innings? I would guess we can count the number on one hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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