Failed Dynasties: The 1993 White Sox

[CanOfCorn]

I wonder if someone ever finished out the 1994 season...simulation style. You know, played the rest of the games and see who wins the series. That year could have saved the Expos, too, if I remember correctly, they had Pedro, Pee-Hands, Delino DeShields, Wetteland, Darrin Fletcher, Marquis Grissom, Larry Walker, Rondell White, Cliff Floyd, Wil Cordero...pretty good team at the time.

 

Crap.

[almagest]

I wonder if someone ever finished out the 1994 season...simulation style. You know, played the rest of the games and see who wins the series. That year could have saved the Expos, too, if I remember correctly, they had Pedro, Pee-Hands, Delino DeShields, Wetteland, Darrin Fletcher, Marquis Grissom, Larry Walker, Rondell White, Cliff Floyd, Wil Cordero...pretty good team at the time.

 

Crap.

 

I'm not entirely sure, but I think someone did. The Expos beat us in the World Series 4-2 IIRC.

 

I remember looking at a picture of that '94 Expos team, and the first thought that came to mind was "holy crap, that team was STACKED!"

Edited March 27, 2008 by almagest

[rangercal]

I wonder if someone ever finished out the 1994 season...simulation style. You know, played the rest of the games and see who wins the series. That year could have saved the Expos, too, if I remember correctly, they had Pedro, Pee-Hands, Delino DeShields, Wetteland, Darrin Fletcher, Marquis Grissom, Larry Walker, Rondell White, Cliff Floyd, Wil Cordero...pretty good team at the time.

 

Crap.

yeah, they were stacked. I used to pick them on my Sega Genesis baseball games when not playing with the sox.

[WilliamTell]

Those Canadian teams were stacked for a few years in the early 90's.

 

Watching Thomas and Griffey in their primes is a childhood memory I'll never forget.

[lostfan]

Bonds is the only player I've ever seen who was similar...of course, given what we know is true with the late 90s sluggers, Frank should be seen as that much more dominant. Just pure talent. Man, the number of times I'd cheer to myself for Frank to come through with a big fly and sure enough, he would...including his first game back at US Cellular with the A's.

Bonds was a legit first-ballot HOFer and 5-tool beast even before he started juicing.

[DaTank]

Watching Thomas and Griffey in their primes is a childhood memory I'll never forget.

 

Cheers to that.

 

[witesoxfan]

Bonds was a legit first-ballot HOFer and 5-tool beast even before he started juicing.

 

Absolutely.

 

With PEDs, he was the most dominant player the game has ever seen.

[dasox24]

keeping that average over 162 games....

54 hrs (at the time it happened , would have been 6th best single season total of all time)

144 RBis

151 runs

156 Walks (at the time it happened , would have been tied for the 4th best single season total of all time)

Wow... I have always heard things from my dad and older brother about Frank (and the Sox) that year, but I didn't realize quite how good he was. Those #'s are completely sick, especially for that time period.

[daa84]

Wow... I have always heard things from my dad and older brother about Frank (and the Sox) that year, but I didn't realize quite how good he was. Those #'s are completely sick, especially for that time period.

dang this post makes me feel old..."that time period" ....it doenst seem like that was a different time period than it is now, but looking back that was 14 years ago...i suppose it was a bit differnt

[Pants Rowland]

But ESPN has said in the past that the Yanks were gonna go to the series, not us.

 

I remember seeing that article where they talk about the Expos and Yankees meeting in the 1994 WS that never happened. I took exception and wrote a letter to the "journalist". His response was something to the effect of, "oh yeah, the White Sox were good, but the Yankees had a better record when the stoppage occured."

 

Whatever, maybe we were biased, but the 1994 White Sox team was the best White Sox team I ever watched. They had starting pitching, relief pitching, infield defense, outfield defense, obp, speed, veteran leadership, playoff experience, you name it. Julio Franco solidified that lineup and Frank was a monster. The closest things to weak links were Ron Karkovice's hitting (his D was still pretty solid) and a lackluster manager in Gene Lamont. The 1994 Yankees were not the wonders they became in the later half of the decade. In fact, the only team in the AL that I could see giving the Sox a battle that year was Cleveland and it would not have been until the ALCS. I think they were a game back and playing great ball with all the up and coming talent they had. They were the likely WC team but the Sox showed on several meetings that they had the upper hand primarily due to pitching and experience.

 

I do not know if they could have beaten a equally beastly Expos team, but I would have loved to see it all play out. 2005 was magical and awesome and if the cosmos allowed them to face the 1994 squad, maybe their magic and starting pitching would carry them to victory. However, to me the 1994 squad was the best. They were all business and stacked in every way.

[Pants Rowland]

dang this post makes me feel old..."that time period" ....it doenst seem like that was a different time period than it is now, but looking back that was 14 years ago...i suppose it was a bit differnt

 

The fact that your knowledge of the 1994 team is based on second hand accounts from your dad and older brother makes me feel old since I was in college at the time and could probably name most of the roster.

[rangercal]

another thing to note. Besides leading the league in walks, Runs, OBP, Slugging,OPS and Extra Base hits. Frank was 6 points , 2 hrs and 10 RBis away from Triple Crown Status that year.

[southsider2k5]

The fact that your knowledge of the 1994 team is based on second hand accounts from your dad and older brother makes me feel old since I was in college at the time and could probably name most of the roster.

 

Ugh. Me too!

[Pants Rowland]

Ugh. Me too!

 

Good thing were are still so good looking.

[heirdog]

I found this part of the article particularly funny:

 

"The rest of the infield was an abomination. Greg Walker and Fred Manrique formed a punchless right side, and Ozzie Guillen and Steve Lyons were out machines biding their time until building far more successful post-retirement careers."

 

 

Ah yes, let's get that "punchless" guy to be our hitting coach and how about we have the "out machine" preach to our players about getting on base and giving good at-bats by working counts.

[witesoxfan]

I found this part of the article particularly funny:

 

"The rest of the infield was an abomination. Greg Walker and Fred Manrique formed a punchless right side, and Ozzie Guillen and Steve Lyons were out machines biding their time until building far more successful post-retirement careers."

Ah yes, let's get that "punchless" guy to be our hitting coach and how about we have the "out machine" preach to our players about getting on base and giving good at-bats by working counts.

 

It's ironic, if anything. LaRussa sucked at baseball though too and he's turned out to be a hell of a manager.

[The Ginger Kid]

It's ironic, if anything. LaRussa sucked at baseball though too and he's turned out to be a hell of a manager.

Ozzie did not suck as a shortstop. Not a great hitter, but an extremely good fielder.

[witesoxfan]

Ozzie did not suck as a shortstop. Not a great hitter, but an extremely good fielder.

 

Yeah, that's fine. Once his range disappeared, he was out of the league though.

 

 

[YASNY]

Ozzie did not suck as a shortstop. Not a great hitter, but an extremely good fielder.

 

And at one time, Walker was a pretty good hitter.

[Pants Rowland]

And at one time, Walker was a pretty good hitter.

 

Walk was a very promising young prospect. He had good power and played a decent 1B. The seizure he suffered was what ended his career, not his ability. He was never the same after that and was out of baseball before long.

 

On the Ozzie front, he was a very smart player, in particular in the field. He was always a clown, but he had a knack for getting under the skin of the opposition. He never made an effort to strengthen his body so he was always a slap hitter. When he tore up his knee in a collision with Raines, the strength program he went on the rehabilitate gave him a little more power. Unfortunately, his range was gone and he no longer had the speed which was very much a part of his game. I recall him being among the lead leaders in steals on a few occassion and also was known for hitting a triple every now and then. He was also the best split finger fastball hitter I have seen. He knew nothing about strikes and balls as he swung at everything. He would not walk or strike out much at all. but he also had a knack for spoiling pitches and going and getting pitches down in the zone. His obp was abysmal but people did not focus on that at the time. He made three all-star teams and was the ROY in 1985. He also was a mentor to Robin Ventura and helped him develop into a solid 3B. As a Venezuelan, he adored the Sox for all the inroads they made in his country and wanted to stay with the team forever.

 

 

[YASNY]

Walk was a very promising young prospect. He had good power and played a decent 1B. The seizure he suffered was what ended his career, not his ability. He was never the same after that and was out of baseball before long.

 

On the Ozzie front, he was a very smart player, in particular in the field. He was always a clown, but he had a knack for getting under the skin of the opposition. He never made an effort to strengthen his body so he was always a slap hitter. When he tore up his knee in a collision with Raines, the strength program he went on the rehabilitate gave him a little more power. Unfortunately, his range was gone and he no longer had the speed which was very much a part of his game. I recall him being among the lead leaders in steals on a few occassion and also was known for hitting a triple every now and then. He was also the best split finger fastball hitter I have seen. He knew nothing about strikes and balls as he swung at everything. He would not walk or strike out much at all. but he also had a knack for spoiling pitches and going and getting pitches down in the zone. His obp was abysmal but people did not focus on that at the time. He made three all-star teams and was the ROY in 1985. He also was a mentor to Robin Ventura and helped him develop into a solid 3B. As a Venezuelan, he adored the Sox for all the inroads they made in his country and wanted to stay with the team forever.

 

I agree with you on all points but his base stealing ability. Now stats may prove me wrong, but it seemed he was thrown out quite a bit.

[Pants Rowland]

I agree with you on all points but his base stealing ability. Now stats may prove me wrong, but it seemed he was thrown out quite a bit.

 

Well he did steal quite a few...

Career SB - 169 (mostly before his injuries and stole 36 in 1989)

 

But was thrown out quite a few times as well...

Career CS - 108 (61% success, ugh!)

 

At least he has stayed consistent over the years.

[witesoxfan]

The stats tend to agree with both of you. Ozzie was 7th in the AL in stealing in 1989 with 36, but he was among the league leaders in caught stealing from 88-91, and is 83rd all time in being caught stealing at 108. He also had more doubles than walks in his career, and he wasn't exactly a gap-to-gap hitter either, which tells you a little about how he went about his game.

 

I don't remember much about the 90s Sox, but I remember Ozzie pretty well. I always enjoyed him, and I even have a recollection of him throwing Deion Sanders, in one of his comebacks with the Reds, out at the plate; I remember it because a player flew out to Ozzie at deep short, and Deion tried to tag up at 3rd. That's the first and only time I ever recall a player trying to tag up on a flyball that was that shallow, and Deion almost made it too.

[Pants Rowland]

he is 83rd all time in being caught stealing at 108.

 

Yeah, but a few of those were on the hidden ball trick. On one of the 2005 DVD's there is an extra from TWIB showing how he got duped twice in one season.

 

[YASNY]

Yeah, but a few of those were on the hidden ball trick. On one of the 2005 DVD's there is an extra from TWIB showing how he got duped twice in one season.

 

He also got caught a couple of times when the 1B faked throwing the ball back to the pitcher after a pick off attempt. I remember him getting up from a head first dive into the bag and completely loosing contact with bag. I kept waiting for it to happen and it eventually did.

Edited March 28, 2008 by YASNY