Tom Crean to Indiana

[hitlesswonder]

Marquette, before Crean, was not an upper tier salary job.

 

Here's a very cool tool to help compare and look at college coaching salaries

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/graphics/ba...racts/flash.htm

 

That is handy. In the interest of accuracy, it lists Weber's compensation at $900,000 while the number I got from Wikipedia was $750K. Probably bets to go with USA Today's figure I would guess. And of course money from endorsements and camps etc. also increase the compensation. But, financially the Marquette job is on another level than the UI job.

 

CWSGuy406 -- Lowery and Weber may be good coaches, but for me UI basketball is not the most entertaining thing to watch. Maybe it would look better with guys that can shoot, but as run by Weber the motion offense seems to include a lot of moving the ball side to side for 30 seconds and then missing a jump shot that could have been taken much earlier. The guards don't seem to look to penetrate much at all, and one thing I really enjoyed about Marquette was watching James with the ball. On defense, Weber's refusal to play zone seems silly to me and UI also seems to insist that their guards get right up in the grill of opposing players regardless of whether or not they are quicker. This lead to a lot of fouls and a slower game. Maybe it would be different with other players in that system.

 

Back on topic, it seems like a very good hire by IU. Crean has Midwest recruiting ties and ties to the big 10. He may have had trouble recruiting at Marquette but he wasn't terrible. And I would expect him to actually do better than expected next season if Ellis and Bassett stay. Maybe I'm overrating him, but I think Bassett would do particularly well with Crean next season.

[CWSGuy406]

CWSGuy406 -- Lowery and Weber may be good coaches, but for me UI basketball is not the most entertaining thing to watch. Maybe it would look better with guys that can shoot, but as run by Weber the motion offense seems to include a lot of moving the ball side to side for 30 seconds and then missing a jump shot that could have been taken much earlier. The guards don't seem to look to penetrate much at all, and one thing I really enjoyed about Marquette was watching James with the ball. On defense, Weber's refusal to play zone seems silly to me and UI also seems to insist that their guards get right up in the grill of opposing players regardless of whether or not they are quicker. This lead to a lot of fouls and a slower game. Maybe it would be different with other players in that system.

 

I know Weber isn't a perfect coach. Then again, Marquette isn't in a position to ask for Roy Williams or Coach K here.

 

Your gripe about the defense doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It'd be one thing if Weber's teams (defensively) were ineffective, but they weren't -- the Pomeroy stats (IIRC) usually have U of I among the better teams in the nation on the defensive end. Obviously this year things were a little different, but even this season when I caught a few Illini games they seemed pretty tough defensively.

[whitesoxfan99]

That is handy. In the interest of accuracy, it lists Weber's compensation at $900,000 while the number I got from Wikipedia was $750K. Probably bets to go with USA Today's figure I would guess. And of course money from endorsements and camps etc. also increase the compensation. But, financially the Marquette job is on another level than the UI job.

 

CWSGuy406 -- Lowery and Weber may be good coaches, but for me UI basketball is not the most entertaining thing to watch. Maybe it would look better with guys that can shoot, but as run by Weber the motion offense seems to include a lot of moving the ball side to side for 30 seconds and then missing a jump shot that could have been taken much earlier. The guards don't seem to look to penetrate much at all, and one thing I really enjoyed about Marquette was watching James with the ball. On defense, Weber's refusal to play zone seems silly to me and UI also seems to insist that their guards get right up in the grill of opposing players regardless of whether or not they are quicker. This lead to a lot of fouls and a slower game. Maybe it would be different with other players in that system.

 

Back on topic, it seems like a very good hire by IU. Crean has Midwest recruiting ties and ties to the big 10. He may have had trouble recruiting at Marquette but he wasn't terrible. And I would expect him to actually do better than expected next season if Ellis and Bassett stay. Maybe I'm overrating him, but I think Bassett would do particularly well with Crean next season.

 

Illinois offense in the latter portion of 03-04 and especially in 04-05 was a thing of beauty. If you didn't enjoy watching the 04-05 team play offense than just stop watching basketball because you are hopeless. In 05-06 despite having stretches where we struggled to score they were still top 20 in adjusted offensive efficiency. The last two years of course the offense has looked awful at times because you have had two guys at most on the court who can shoot the basketball outside of 5 feet. Weber's teams have always been really strong defensively so I think it is silly to constantly harp on his refusal to play zone. I wouldn't mind seeing zone once in a while for a change of pace but defense has yet to be a problem under Weber. And teams that play almost exclusively man to man tend to be horrible when they go zone so that is another issue with trying to play zone. I would much rather them work on offense and being a strong man to man team than waste time working on a zone D.

 

[fathom]

I think Weber would be a very bad hire for Marquette. They'd be better off with a younger guy who recruits across the country better than Weber does. And as for Beasley staying with K St., that had more to do with Delonte Hill (AAU coach) staying their as an assistant.

[fathom]

Looks like Ty Taylor is asking out of his LOI.....http://njmg.typepad.com/zagsblog/2008/04/taylor-to-ask-f.html

[scenario]

I think Weber would be a very bad hire for Marquette. They'd be better off with a younger guy who recruits across the country better than Weber does.

 

I agree. I love Marquette, but convincing star high school players with other offers to come to beautiful downtown Milwaukee is NOT an easy sell.

 

And to compete in the Big East and on a national scale that is exactly what's necessary.

 

It would expose Weber's weaknesses worse than the Illinois job...

 

Which is why I don't like the idea.

 

[scenario]

Who's the coach at Xavier?

 

They've had a nice track record of promoting successful coaches to major programs.

 

And it's a Jesuit university... just like Marquette.

 

Seems like a natural fit.

 

 

Edit... Sean Miller

 

http://goxavier.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/m...ler_sean00.html

 

38 years old... played at Pittsburg... was a star point guard there so he has Big East experience.

 

4 years at Xavier... great winning percentage. Probably ripe to be picked.

 

Yep. I'd make that phone call if I were MU. He deserves a look.

Edited April 2, 2008 by scenario

[hitlesswonder]

Your gripe about the defense doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It'd be one thing if Weber's teams (defensively) were ineffective, but they weren't -- the Pomeroy stats (IIRC) usually have U of I among the better teams in the nation on the defensive end. Obviously this year things were a little different, but even this season when I caught a few Illini games they seemed pretty tough defensively.

 

Well, I'm just talking about what I saw this season really. So that's what you get when someone that's not that knowledgeable about basketball also focuses too narrowly. UI's defense in 2006-2007 was actually pretty impressive (again, that's me just watching the games and not backed up by stats or knowledge). So, I think you are right & he probably is a decent defensive coach. This season, it was frustrating to watch the same tight man-to-man get played every game regardless of how UI matched up with the other team but that decision was made by someone who knows a lot more about basketball than I do.

 

whitesoxfan99 -- As I said, UI's offense could very well look a lot better with different players. I actually didn't see much of the 2005 season, but I remember the offense looking jaw-droppingly good in the Wake Forest game. But in general, I just don't see as much penetration from the guards as I would like. I don't know if that's personnel or the motion offense in general. Maybe both. I can't remember if 2005 was different in that respect, or if the team could just shoot a hell of a lot better.

Edited April 2, 2008 by hitlesswonder

[whitesoxfan99]

Well, I'm just talking about what I saw this season really. So that's what you get when someone that's not that knowledgeable about basketball also focuses too narrowly. UI's defense in 2006-2007 was actually pretty impressive (again, that's me just watching the games and not backed up by stats or knowledge). So, I think you are right & he probably is a decent defensive coach. This season, it was frustrating to watch the same tight man-to-man get played every game regardless of how UI matched up with the other team but that decision was made by someone who knows a lot more about basketball than I do.

 

whitesoxfan99 -- As I said, UI's offense could very well look a lot better with different players. I actually didn't see much of the 2005 season, but I remember the offense looking jaw-droppingly good in the Wake Forest game. But in general, I just don't see as much penetration from the guards as I would like. I don't know if that's personnel or the motion offense in general. Maybe both. I can't remember if 2005 was different in that respect, or if the team could just shoot a hell of a lot better.

 

Offensively Weber's motion is more of the Bobby Knight school where they believe in ball movement, cutting, and passing over the dribble drive. When Weber has players who can create he gives them the freedom to do so. The 04-05 team took a ton of jump shots but Luther and Deron would drive and dish a lot and they would get a ton of open looks from the penetration. You don't see a lot of dribble penetration from Illinois because quite frankly they haven't had the players to do it the last couple years. Deron and Luther did it rather successfully in 04-05 but it was not Dee's strong point because he couldn't finish in the half court. Last years team didn't have a guard who had a prayer of driving and scoring and this year as the season went on McCamey started to become fairly effective in creating his own shot.

[CWSGuy406]

Fathom -- I saw the Taylor quote and I'll highlight the part that I focused on (probably because I'm trying to look for some good in today):

 

I would like the opportunity to have him released from his scholarship in the event that we don't like who's hired," Hurley said Tuesday night after his team was honored at the 76ers-Nets game for winning the New Jersey Tournament of Champions.

 

If Marquette doesn't cheap out -- and as of right now (things could change) I have no reason to believe that they will -- they should be able to bring in a pretty damn good coach who might be able to convince Taylor to stay.

 

As far as Weber, Marquette still has Buzz Williams aboard who, IIRC, is pretty damn good at recruiting the south (I'm pretty sure Scouts or Rivals credited the Taylor signing to Buzz). Recruiting would obviously be listed as a flaw of Weber's, but I don't think he's absolutely terrible in that department (he's got some good classes coming to U of I in the not-so-distant future, right? The guys in 99's sig?) and I think his positives (mainly that he's a great defensive coach -- I completely agree with 99 in that I'd much rather have my team struggle on the offensive end than on the defensive end) far outweigh the negatives.

 

I guess we shall see in the coming days. I hope you U of I fans don't mind my 'hoarding' of Weber for the night -- I don't think this is a completely ludacris scenario (although most likely not going to happen).

 

Scenario, as far as Miller... I don't see that happening for a couple of reasons. It's been said that he's got his eye on the Pitt job for a while. He's also got a ridiculous buy-out, and finally, I don't see Marquette as enough of an upgrade to leave Xavier. I think the best thing you and I can hope for is Marquette's (and the boosters') willingness to continue to pay the next MU coach like a top ten coach in the country.

Edited April 2, 2008 by CWSGuy406

[CWSGuy406]

s***.Hitting.TheFan.

[whitesoxfan99]

As far as Weber, Marquette still has Buzz Williams aboard who, IIRC, is pretty damn good at recruiting the south (I'm pretty sure Scouts or Rivals credited the Taylor signing to Buzz). Recruiting would obviously be listed as a flaw of Weber's, but I don't think he's absolutely terrible in that department (he's got some good classes coming to U of I in the not-so-distant future, right? The guys in 99's sig?) and I think his positives (mainly that he's a great defensive coach -- I completely agree with 99 in that I'd much rather have my team struggle on the offensive end than on the defensive end) far outweigh the negatives.

 

Since Webster left and Jerrance was hired Weber has landed Legion (top 40 07 transfer from Kentucky), Simpson who is an 08 big man from Simeon who has a lot of upside, Griffey/Paul/Richardson/Bertrand who are all top 100 type talents in 09, Dominique Keller a JUCO I don't know much about, and Richmond/Head who are both top 25 type talents in 2010. Between Paul/Richardson and Richmond/Head Weber has also landed the top 2 players from the state in consecutive classes.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Not when you're seen as the only major program(sorry DePaul) by many in one of the richest basketball states out there.

 

[scenario]

Scenario, as far as Miller... I don't see that happening for a couple of reasons. It's been said that he's got his eye on the Pitt job for a while. He's also got a ridiculous buy-out, and finally, I don't see Marquette as enough of an upgrade to leave Xavier. I think the best thing you and I can hope for is Marquette's (and the boosters') willingness to continue to pay the next MU coach like a top ten coach in the country.

 

I don't see Miller going to Pitt unless Jamie Dixon leaves.

 

And going to Marquette in the Big East is a huge upgrade over Xavier in the Atlantic 10 conference. Huge.

 

Miller's salary is only $800k right now. So MU could offer him a nice pay increase.

 

But I just saw that Xavier has a $2M buyout in Miller's contract?? Ackkkk. Well... that might put on damper on interest in him. LOL.

 

On the other hand, Crean's contract probably has a similar buyout. The money we get from that could be used to pay off some other coach's buyout to come to MU.

 

I'd still make the call.

Edited April 2, 2008 by scenario

[thedoctor]

Well, I'm just talking about what I saw this season really. So that's what you get when someone that's not that knowledgeable about basketball also focuses too narrowly. UI's defense in 2006-2007 was actually pretty impressive (again, that's me just watching the games and not backed up by stats or knowledge). So, I think you are right & he probably is a decent defensive coach. This season, it was frustrating to watch the same tight man-to-man get played every game regardless of how UI matched up with the other team but that decision was made by someone who knows a lot more about basketball than I do.

 

whitesoxfan99 -- As I said, UI's offense could very well look a lot better with different players. I actually didn't see much of the 2005 season, but I remember the offense looking jaw-droppingly good in the Wake Forest game. But in general, I just don't see as much penetration from the guards as I would like. I don't know if that's personnel or the motion offense in general. Maybe both. I can't remember if 2005 was different in that respect, or if the team could just shoot a hell of a lot better.

 

the issues illinois had last year had little to do with his in-game coaching. they had to do with him recruiting like crap, as we've covered seemingly hundreds of times over the past few months (not a shot at you, just a statement of fact).

 

weber isn't going anywhere. the marquette mention was a throw-away speculative line based on his milwaukee roots.

[JuiceCruz16]

I know Marquette was one of the schools Holloway was looking at after getting out of his LOI from IU after Sampson was let go. With Crean coming to Bloomington maybe he will stick with IU. The possible probation still will be a problem though with wooing him back.

[sircaffey]

s***.Hitting.TheFan.

 

They're spots open at IU for them!

[AddisonStSox]

I don't know if Weber would, but he's from Milwaukee and supposedly loves it -- it would be a homecoming for him. Plus (and correct me if I'm wrong) Marquette would pay significantly more. And the facilities are better. UI may have more money in the athletic department, since they have a football team, but they are stuck with what many people view as a poor and antiquated venue in Assembly Hall (although I think it's still a good place to see a game).

 

I'd just be surprised if recruiting someone to UI is easier than Marquette but maybe the academic standards do make a difference.

 

Update: Salary figures: Weber $750,000 and Crean at Marquette $1,650,000. That's just base salary, but it's still twice as much...that being said I doubt Marquette will go after him and I'll now stop hijacking the thread.

 

This is just hilarious. Leave the basketball program at the University of Illinois for, who, Marquette? Get real. That comment was made by an oblivious Pat Forde on an even more oblivious sports outlet. If he is your source for speculation, you have problems.

 

Furthermore, better facilities, eh? While many feel the Assembly Hall needs to be either renovated or replaced, I think 9 out of 10 coaches would prefer a facility of AH standards on their own campus that they can call their own over a facility like the Bradley Center, which, while quite a pleasant builiding, they essentially rent out. How about practice facilities? The Ubben Basketball Complex is a brand new, multi-million dollar facility that rivals the best in all of college basketball.

 

...and you'd be surprised if recruiting to Illinois is easier than Marquette...um, really? Per the most recent US News rankings, Illinois #38, Marquette #82. Use whatever ranking mechanism you wish, although, I think the US News flaws are wildly overrated, the University of Illinois is a world class institution while Marquette is a fine, Catholic school in the greater Milwaukee area. Surprised if recruiting someone to UI is easier? In terms of academics or qualifying? I hope that's not what is being implied or even contested. That's something.

 

 

 

Since Webster left and Jerrance was hired Weber has landed Legion (top 40 07 transfer from Kentucky), Simpson who is an 08 big man from Simeon who has a lot of upside, Griffey/Paul/Richardson/Bertrand who are all top 100 type talents in 09, Dominique Keller a JUCO I don't know much about, and Richmond/Head who are both top 25 type talents in 2010. Between Paul/Richardson and Richmond/Head Weber has also landed the top 2 players from the state in consecutive classes.

 

Those following closely know that Weber's 09 & 10 class are going to be top-25 classes and perhaps even top ten or eight when all is said and done. The hiring of Jerrance Howard has already paid dividends and the staff has even made some serious in-roads with the top freshman from the state of Illinois. The days of losing the state's top recruits are over. Weber has overhauled the program's recruiting philosophies, and with Howard on board, they will continue to reel in more top recruits than they have room for. It's just such a cheap and easy target for Weber-bashers. Sadly, the facts no longer support the Weber-can't-recruit movement. But, this board tends to overlook facts. Case in point: Weber can't recruit.

Edited April 2, 2008 by AddisonStSox

[hitlesswonder]

Surprised if recruiting someone to UI is easier? In terms of academics or qualifying? I hope that's not what is being implied or even contested. That's something.

 

I wasn't talking about academics. I would think those very rarely play a big role in recruiting (not never, but rarely). And I wasn't suggesting that Marquette's academics were superior, so let's not go there.

 

Marquette's facilities are better: the Al McGuire Center is a state-of-the-art $30M practice facility. The Ubben is nice ($6M), but it's not in the same league. And maybe I'm wrong, but I think recruits would like the fact they would play at the Bradley Center -- it's an NBA arena. Who cares if it's a rental? Most of all, there's geography. You can joke about beautiful downtown Milwaukee but for most recruits I would think living in a city would be a lot more exciting than living amidst a bunch of flat cornfields that stretch as far as the eye can see. It's not just basketball recruits -- people aren't exactly clamoring to live in the CU area. That's not a rip on UI, I'm not criticizing it as an institution or anything here. I just think you are downplaying some significant advantages Marquette has.

 

All that being said, I'm sure the biggest recruiting advantage any school can have is a coach that players think will get them to the show.

 

[greasywheels121]

Press Conference is minutes away from starting.

 

Here's the official press release, stating Crean will be paid $18.24M over 8 years.

 

http://iuhoosiers.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl.../040208aab.html

[Jenksismyhero]

I dunno that Crean was the best choice for Indiana, I would like to have seen another Big Ten guy come, like Bennett (obviously they tried and he said no). But he's an ok choice. I'm still not really sold on him as being a great coach - he had one good year with Wade. I think anyone could have had one good year with a future NBA Finals MVP. Also it's s***ty that Crean didn't call his kids at all after he made his decision. That'd be a heck of a suprise to those players.

 

My question for IU fans though is why the rush? I mean, I guess recruiting is the name of the game and if you don't have a coach you can't recruit, but it's not like he's going to make huge strides in his first season. He's waaaayyyy behind the game now and he's recruiting into a different level. Even if you want to argue that Marquette and IU have been equal the last decade, IU still has the tradition that wins kids over.

 

 

 

[AddisonStSox]

All that being said, I'm sure the biggest recruiting advantage any school can have is a coach that players think will get them to the show.

 

On that much, we are in absolute agreement. I don't know if that applies to D-II schools or for the lesser D-I basketball programs (i.e. a school like Rice, for example, in which the basketball student-athlete would most likely be attending for the free, world-class education and not exposure or an increased likelihood in making it to the NBA), but in regards to the prominent programs, I would think that is absolutely spot-on...maybe not thirty years ago, but certainly today.

Edited April 2, 2008 by AddisonStSox

[Balta1701]

My question for IU fans though is why the rush? I mean, I guess recruiting is the name of the game and if you don't have a coach you can't recruit, but it's not like he's going to make huge strides in his first season. He's waaaayyyy behind the game now and he's recruiting into a different level. Even if you want to argue that Marquette and IU have been equal the last decade, IU still has the tradition that wins kids over.

There's another bit of pressure in this that you have to remember...folks like me, who are watching the NCAA tournament with other teams succeeding while grumbling in the back of our heads about how IU and the athletic director screwed up badly with that last hire. The sooner they do something to placate people like me, the better off they are. Especially when Gordon announces on Monday he's leaving, we want a bit of good news.

[thedoctor]

weber isn't going anywhere. the marquette mention was a throw-away speculative line based on his milwaukee roots.

 

in the interest of objectivity, at least one person close to the program does think weber has interest: champaign news-gazette

 

again, i stand by my thought that weber will be illinois's coach this year. but perhaps it is just more than the blind speculation i initially thought.

 

[AddisonStSox]

in the interest of objectivity, at least one person close to the program does think weber has interest: champaign news-gazette

 

again, i stand by my thought that weber will be illinois's coach this year. but perhaps it is just more than the blind speculation i initially thought.

 

If he were to leave for Marquette, it would undoubtedly be for the soft-landing. Suffice to say, with his resume, he could probably finish out his career at a school like Marquette with little or no job insecurity.

 

Again, this is highly unlikely. He won't be going anywhere.