CanOfCorn Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (RME JICO @ Apr 8, 2008 -> 06:51 PM) Would you rather have them come into the Cell winless or with at least one win? Would they press more as they lose more, or will they try harder if they lose more? I can see a case for both. If they are 0-9, they may not have a lot of fight in them (although Leyland would pop a vessel if they stopped trying). But, if they win a game, then maybe they will relax thinking, well we've got that monkey off our back. But as long as they have Leyland, I don't ever want to see a limping Tiger. Always dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I guess I'd rather have them 0-9. In the span of a season, if they got their first win against us it's not a big deal to me. I don't want to give them an extra win because I think they'll turn it around eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 haha, pretty funny tho its 0-7, they will probably be dominating soon, but just a funny start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 8, 2008 -> 04:27 PM) Christ, the season is over after 7 games? Would you please step the f*** back and realize that there are 155 left? Seriously, it's April. I love that the Tigers suck, but they aren't going to go 0-162, and they aren't going to finish in last place (barring some more injuries to their lineup). I don't think it's too early to write off the Tigers. Bad pitching is bad pitching whether it's 10 or 110 games into the season. They're a .500 team or slightly above that if they start hitting, and even that is questionable. Last year's team had a bunch of guys at their career bests, not unlike 2006 Sox, so it's not out of the question their offense will be worse this season (not "last place" worse, but middle of the pack). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 i'm just hoping they don't snap out of this funk as much as crawl out of it...at least until after this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted April 9, 2008 Author Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 8, 2008 -> 11:49 PM) Funny, I heard many people saying the Sox season was over in something like Nov of last year... .... the double standards on this board can never cease to amaze me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted April 9, 2008 Author Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Apr 9, 2008 -> 01:54 AM) I don't think it's too early to write off the Tigers. Bad pitching is bad pitching whether it's 10 or 110 games into the season. They're a .500 team or slightly above that if they start hitting, and even that is questionable. Last year's team had a bunch of guys at their career bests, not unlike 2006 Sox, so it's not out of the question their offense will be worse this season (not "last place" worse, but middle of the pack). Trust me; if the Sox had the same record and had they played the same way, there would be 1000 threads on this board telling everyone how the Sox would not win a game in the next century.....hypocrisy rocks on this board and if the Sox are doing well, some of these "sox fans" just cannot be happy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (sox-r-us @ Apr 8, 2008 -> 05:24 PM) 2003 v/s 2008 stats 2003 ~V~ 2008 0-7 Rec. 0-7 12-45 RS-RGU 15-44 7 Unearned 7 3 Errors 5 27 Hits 55 40 Strike Outs 41 Is there one player on the team now who was on the '03 team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (Vance Law @ Apr 8, 2008 -> 08:18 PM) Is there one player on the team now who was on the '03 team? Inge and Bonderman. Rodney pitched for them that year but he's not on their team right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 8, 2008 -> 10:20 PM) Inge and Bonderman. Rodney pitched for them that year but he's not on their team right now. Right, so kinda not the same team. There are probably other major league teams with as many '03 Tigers on them. Point being, the guy(s) claiming that the Tigers season is over with 155 games to go is rather silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Apr 8, 2008 -> 07:54 PM) I don't think it's too early to write off the Tigers. Bad pitching is bad pitching whether it's 10 or 110 games into the season. They're a .500 team or slightly above that if they start hitting, and even that is questionable. Last year's team had a bunch of guys at their career bests, not unlike 2006 Sox, so it's not out of the question their offense will be worse this season (not "last place" worse, but middle of the pack). I don't think their rotation is this bad. Dontrelle looks absolute awful, but I like Verlander, I think Bonderman's still solid, and Rogers and Robertson should be middle and end of the rotation starters. If Dontrelle remembers how or if he can just put up respectable numbers, the rotation will be fine. And, quite frankly, when Zumaya and Rodney get back, they have two solid pieces in the pen, and building a bullpen on the fly is honestly not that hard. That Tigers team last year had some guys have career years...Polanco and Maggs for sure...but I don't think Granderson's game is suddenly going to get worse any time soon, Renteria is a pretty solid damn hitter, and they have one of the best hitters in the game in Miguel Cabrera replacing one of the worst last year in Brandon Inge. I still like their lineup...cuz, you know, they aren't exactly counting on Erstad and Pods to be good offensively for them. I don't see their lineup finishing anywhere near the middle of the pack...I still see it as a top 5 offense. But, I also don't see it being nearly as good as advertised (best ever? no chance) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 8, 2008 -> 11:18 PM) I don't think their rotation is this bad. Dontrelle looks absolute awful, but I like Verlander, I think Bonderman's still solid, and Rogers and Robertson should be middle and end of the rotation starters. If Dontrelle remembers how or if he can just put up respectable numbers, the rotation will be fine. And, quite frankly, when Zumaya and Rodney get back, they have two solid pieces in the pen, and building a bullpen on the fly is honestly not that hard. That Tigers team last year had some guys have career years...Polanco and Maggs for sure...but I don't think Granderson's game is suddenly going to get worse any time soon, Renteria is a pretty solid damn hitter, and they have one of the best hitters in the game in Miguel Cabrera replacing one of the worst last year in Brandon Inge. I still like their lineup...cuz, you know, they aren't exactly counting on Erstad and Pods to be good offensively for them. I don't see their lineup finishing anywhere near the middle of the pack...I still see it as a top 5 offense. But, I also don't see it being nearly as good as advertised (best ever? no chance) I'll agree with you on the offense. The problem is that bullpen. You are assuming Rodney and Zumaya come back and stay healthy. Rodney should have been back, but he got hurt again, and Zumaya is nowhere to be seen. If these guys don't come back soon where are they going to get pen pieces? Nobody is going to make a deal this early for quality arms. I read Jon Rauch at Motown Sports is a possibility. Is that the answer in the AL? I think it's more difficult to build a pen at the beginning of a season than you suggest. The offense should mask the bullpen problems when they wake up, but until then, the hole is going to get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 (edited) keep in mind, how much of an impact confidence has on a team, whether it's affecting a team in a positive way, or negatively. right now, every team in the league that faces the Tigers has an overwhelming amount of confidence that they can decimate the Tigers bullpen, I think right now that is a huge factor in when the Tigers win their first game and ultimately when they start playing winning baseball. Edited April 9, 2008 by joesaiditstrue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 A bad bullpen will prohibit a team from going on a long winning streak. The problem with their starters is that outsdie of Verlander none of them are guaranteed to go deep into games consistently enough to hide that bullpen. Bonderman is Jon Garland, a nice pitcher but not a great pitcher. You also never know what you are going to get from Robertson and Willis and Rogers is old and can have health issues. The cold weather this weekend could play a big role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted April 9, 2008 Author Share Posted April 9, 2008 Winning begets more winning; and losing begets more losing.....anyone who has played team sports realizes that. Once you get off to a horrible start, after all of the over hype of how you were supposed to be a contender this year, players start pressing and they start feeding of each other's anxiety. Add to that the below average talent they have in terms of bull pen and defense, and that is a bad combo to get a winning streak going. But stranger things have happened, and will always happen; hopefully the tigers coming back is not one of those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I am pretty far from declaring the White Sox will finish ahead of Detroit this year. But, I am starting to wonder if they can pass either Cleveland or Boston and New York for a playoff spot. It's really an equal combination of their bullpen woes and horrible start that has me second guessing their chances. To win 95 games (my projected magic # for a playoff lock*) , Detroit would have to go 95-60 the rest of the way with a .612 winning percentage. Which is equivalent to having a record of 99-63 if they started at that pace at 0-0. *Here is a look at the records of The AL Wild Card and Al Central Division Winners for the previous 3 seasons. AL Wild Card Winners 2007 New York 94-68 2006 Detroit 95-67 2005 Boston 95-67 AL Central Division Winners 2007 Cleveland 96-66 2006 Minnesota 96-66 2005 White Sox 99-63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (sox-r-us @ Apr 9, 2008 -> 11:57 AM) Winning begets more winning; and losing begets more losing..... Losing is a disease... QUOTE (rangercal @ Apr 9, 2008 -> 01:35 PM) I am pretty far from declaring the White Sox will finish ahead of Detroit this year. But, I am starting to wonder if they can pass either Cleveland or Boston and New York for a playoff spot. It's really an equal combination of their bullpen woes and horrible start that has me second guessing their chances. To win 95 games (my projected magic # for a playoff lock*) , Detroit would have to go 95-60 the rest of the way with a .612 winning percentage. Which is equivalent to having a record of 99-63 if they started at that pace at 0-0. The 0-7 start is now about two things - how many very good teams lose 7 games in a row at any point in the season? Two, what does it say about the team, such as the lack of a "stopper"? Again, the familiar refrain - it doesn't guarantee the Tigers won't make the playoffs, but it is leveling the "on paper" advantage the Tigers supposedly had. As rangercal points out, it becomes more and more uphill for the Tigers, which may lead to more and more pressing (or the losing begats more losing argument of sox-r-us). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (Disco72 @ Apr 9, 2008 -> 10:04 AM) The 0-7 start is now about two things - how many very good teams lose 7 games in a row at any point in the season? Two, what does it say about the team, such as the lack of a "stopper"? Again, the familiar refrain - it doesn't guarantee the Tigers won't make the playoffs, but it is leveling the "on paper" advantage the Tigers supposedly had. As rangercal points out, it becomes more and more uphill for the Tigers, which may lead to more and more pressing (or the losing begats more losing argument of sox-r-us). The 2005 White Sox had a 7 game losing skid in August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 9, 2008 -> 12:07 PM) The 2005 White Sox had a 7 game losing skid in August. Yeah and nearly everyone on this board thought the season was going to be over, and even in September the playoffs started to be questioned with Cleveland's surge. Point is we're roughly 5% into the season with 95% left, so it's far from over. In terms of football it's basically like Detroit as lost the first game of the year and the season's over. It's far from other I won't count them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 9, 2008 -> 02:07 PM) The 2005 White Sox had a 7 game losing skid in August. QUOTE (WilliamTell @ Apr 9, 2008 -> 02:12 PM) Yeah and nearly everyone on this board thought the season was going to be over, and even in September the playoffs started to be questioned with Cleveland's surge. Point is we're roughly 5% into the season with 95% left, so it's far from over. In terms of football it's basically like Detroit as lost the first game of the year and the season's over. It's far from other I won't count them out. In another thread, someone stated that several of the last few WS winners have had as long as 7 game losing streaks...so I stand corrected! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (Disco72 @ Apr 9, 2008 -> 01:04 PM) Losing is a disease... ...as contagious as polio...syphilis... and the bubonic plague....attacking one but affecting all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Apr 9, 2008 -> 05:07 PM) ...as contagious as polio...syphilis... and the bubonic plague....attacking one but affecting all. Someone had to follow up with that...thanks Pants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxpranos Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Bases loaded and 2-1 count for the Bo Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxpranos Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Boston 1 Detroit 0 Bases loaded still 1 out bottom 2nd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxpranos Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 2-0 Lugo singled , bases loaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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