2008 General Election Discussion Thread

[southsider2k5]

Hillary's supporters are really starting to piss me off... one of the reasons I can't be a registered Democrat.

 

I just saw the stat on MCNBC that 26% of her voters aren't going to support Obama. That is CRAZY. Especially since they are basically the same candidate when it comes to issues. 11% of them are planning on voting for McCain. Wow.

[lostfan]

The whole "we wont support Obama because hilliary didnt win" thing?

 

Bill and Hillary were VERY sore losers and it's rubbed off on their supporters. This would have NEVER happened if they would have just bowed out when they were supposed to. This drawn out fight stung hard. It was unneeded drama that only server to inflat their ego and sens of entitlement. And when they didnt win.... Bill throws a temper tantrum that he dosent get to pick his speaking topic at the convention.

Bill is still crying about it too. He still hasn't realized that he is one of the reasons she lost.

 

She saw the writing was on the wall, and there was no way she would've won by delegate count, so she tried everything she could regardless of ethics. Then at the end it all came to a screeching halt and she didn't have time to let out a parachute, and by then her mentality (and ethics) had rubbed off on them.

[lostfan]

I just saw the stat on MCNBC that 26% of her voters aren't going to support Obama. That is CRAZY. Especially since they are basically the same candidate when it comes to issues. 11% of them are planning on voting for McCain. Wow.

Yeah... I mean if you're serious about politics (and if you're a lifelong Democrat who is registered and is a loyal supporter of a prominent Democrat, I think that qualifies) I just can't understand how spite could be that strong unless you're just uneducated, ignorant, or otherwise don't care. I think some of those 26% will stop and think about what they're doing, and realize they are voting the exact opposite views of the candidate they supposedly support so strongly.

 

I can understand abstaining from voting (or even better, writing in for Clinton), but don't vote AGAINST what you and your candidate believe in. That is like me getting pissed off at Jesse Jackson for saying he wants to cut Obama's nuts off and then declaring I'm going to a KKK rally next week.

[kapkomet]

Yeah... I mean if you're serious about politics (and if you're a lifelong Democrat who is registered and is a loyal supporter of a prominent Democrat, I think that qualifies) I just can't understand how spite could be that strong unless you're just uneducated, ignorant, or otherwise don't care. I think some of those 26% will stop and think about what they're doing, and realize they are voting the exact opposite views of the candidate they supposedly support so strongly.

 

I can understand abstaining from voting (or even better, writing in for Clinton), but don't vote AGAINST what you and your candidate believe in. That is like me getting pissed off at Jesse Jackson for saying he wants to cut Obama's nuts off and then declaring I'm going to a KKK rally next week.

 

 

One of the Best Filibuster analogies ever.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I just saw the stat on MCNBC that 26% of her voters aren't going to support Obama. That is CRAZY. Especially since they are basically the same candidate when it comes to issues. 11% of them are planning on voting for McCain. Wow.

I actually wrote a speech while in the shower this morning to exactly what she should say to convince the women voters that are thinking of switching that shows McCain is against their interests. The problem is that I was in the shower and couldn't write it down.... do I dont remember it now. lol

[Balta1701]

Yeah... I mean if you're serious about politics (and if you're a lifelong Democrat who is registered and is a loyal supporter of a prominent Democrat, I think that qualifies) I just can't understand how spite could be that strong unless you're just uneducated, ignorant, or otherwise don't care. I think some of those 26% will stop and think about what they're doing, and realize they are voting the exact opposite views of the candidate they supposedly support so strongly.

 

I can understand abstaining from voting (or even better, writing in for Clinton), but don't vote AGAINST what you and your candidate believe in. That is like me getting pissed off at Jesse Jackson for saying he wants to cut Obama's nuts off and then declaring I'm going to a KKK rally next week.

There's one thing you're missing though...for about 2 months, Hillary spent her time saying why John McCain was better than Barack Obama. He'd "Passed the commander in chief test" and so forth. She already did some of McCain's campaign work for him, that's part of the reason why that chunk is still out there.

 

I think the convention will probably help, and having the Obama campaign genuinely turn up the heat on the McCain campaign will probably help more.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah... I mean if you're serious about politics (and if you're a lifelong Democrat who is registered and is a loyal supporter of a prominent Democrat, I think that qualifies) I just can't understand how spite could be that strong unless you're just uneducated, ignorant, or otherwise don't care. I think some of those 26% will stop and think about what they're doing, and realize they are voting the exact opposite views of the candidate they supposedly support so strongly.

 

I can understand abstaining from voting (or even better, writing in for Clinton), but don't vote AGAINST what you and your candidate believe in. That is like me getting pissed off at Jesse Jackson for saying he wants to cut Obama's nuts off and then declaring I'm going to a KKK rally next week.

 

Its why I couldn't ever see myself voting for a Democratic President. No matter what I think of the person, they still stand for just about everything I don't believe in. In the end of the game, I want the person in the Oval Office who I most closely identify with, even if they aren't my ideal candidate.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I actually wrote a speech while in the shower this morning to exactly what she should say to convince the women voters that are thinking of switching that shows McCain is against their interests. The problem is that I was in the shower and couldn't write it down.... do I dont remember it now. lol

Had a chance to think it back out again:

Barack and I sure had a tough primary. (cue laughter) And we differ on a few things. But those differences are minor, and at our core, we want the same things for America.

 

Barack Obama will lower taxes on the middle class three times more than John McCain.

Barack Obama will fix America's Economy... John McCain will stay the course.

Barack Obama wants to fix the health care system.... John McCain does not.

Barack Obama wants to fast track new energy.... John McCain does not.

Barack Obama will put us back on the technology world stage... John McCain will not.

Barack Obama will fix Social Security... John McCain will not.

Barack Obama believes in a woman's right to choose... John McCain does not.

Barack Obama will fix immigration... John McCain will not.

Barack Obama wants to brings our troops home... John McCain does not.

 

The differences couldn't be more clear. Barack Obama will put America back on course, John McCain will not.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[bmags]

what did you write the speech on?

[lostfan]

 

One of the Best Filibuster analogies ever.

I just realized that I indirectly compared McCain to the KKK which I didn't mean to do, but the absurdity in the analogy is still there.

[HuskyCaucasian]

what did you write the speech on?

soap? lol I wrote it in my head, but I didnt have time to write it down after the shower.

[lostfan]

Its why I couldn't ever see myself voting for a Democratic President. No matter what I think of the person, they still stand for just about everything I don't believe in. In the end of the game, I want the person in the Oval Office who I most closely identify with, even if they aren't my ideal candidate.

Right and I understand that completely and all the Obama stuff aside, I understand why you'd vote for McCain even though I know you don't really like him. If you don't agree with somebody on basic ideologies why would you vote for them? It makes no sense. You may get into academic arguments on why to align with that ideology like we do here, but if you're rigid on all those things, unless the guy from your party is a criminal or something, then that's who you should vote for... although people are still free to do whatever they want with their vote.

 

I'm sure most here have figured out that I don't agree with the Democrats on a lot of things and that I lean towards Democrats... I would vote Republican if I saw a guy I liked though. But I would never vote for a far right Republican.

[kapkomet]

Right and I understand that completely and all the Obama stuff aside, I understand why you'd vote for McCain even though I know you don't really like him. If you don't agree with somebody on basic ideologies why would you vote for them? It makes no sense. You may get into academic arguments on why to align with that ideology like we do here, but if you're rigid on all those things, unless the guy from your party is a criminal or something, then that's who you should vote for... although people are still free to do whatever they want with their vote.

 

I'm sure most here have figured out that I don't agree with the Democrats on a lot of things and that I lean towards Democrats... I would vote Republican if I saw a guy I liked though. But I would never vote for a far right Republican.

I'm pretty much right there with you, except swap out the Republican with Democrat on your post. And frankly I see RSO as a far left guy. FAR left. I also see much of the GWB syndrome with him (my way or the highway) except he's not a bumbling idiot about it like GWB is, which makes it that much more "dangerous".

 

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

Had a chance to think it back out again:

Barack and I sure had a tough primary. (cue laughter) And we differ on a few things. But those differences are minor, and at our core, we want the same things for America.

 

Barack Obama will lower taxes on the middle class three times more than John McCain.

Barack Obama will fix America's Economy... John McCain will stay the course.

Barack Obama wants to fix the health care system.... John McCain does not.

Barack Obama wants to fast track new energy.... John McCain does not.

Barack Obama will put us back on the technology world stage... John McCain will not.

Barack Obama will fix Social Security... John McCain will not.

Barack Obama believes in a woman's right to choose... John McCain does not.

Barack Obama will fix immigration... John McCain will not.

Barack Obama wants to brings our troops home... John McCain does not.

 

The differences couldn't be more clear. Barack Obama will put America back on course, John McCain will not.

 

Well, I was pretty close:

 

The Clinton campaign sends out comments that Hillary made this morning at a breakfast from the New York state delegation pushing back against GOP efforts to exacerbate tensions between the two primary rivals:

 

“Every one of us could stand up and recite all the reasons why we must elect Barack. The Supreme Court is at stake; our educational system needs the right kind of change. We’ve got to become energy independent; we have to create millions of new green collar jobs. We’ve got so much work to do around the world.

 

“None of that will happen if John McCain is in the White House. I just want to make it absolutely clear we cannot afford four more years of George W. Bush’s failed policies in America and that’s what we would get with John McCain.

 

"Now I understand that the McCain campaign is running ads trying to divide us and let me state what I think about their tactics and these ads: I am Hillary Clinton and I do not approve that message.

 

“So let there be the no mistake about it, we are united. We are united for change.”

 

[KipWellsFan]

I'm pretty much right there with you, except swap out the Republican with Democrat on your post. And frankly I see RSO as a far left guy. FAR left. I also see much of the GWB syndrome with him (my way or the highway) except he's not a bumbling idiot about it like GWB is, which makes it that much more "dangerous".

 

Obama is not far left. Period.

[kapkomet]

Obama is not far left. Period.

What a definitive statement. His voting record says otherwise.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

What a definitive statement. His voting record says otherwise.

according to a survey that just "happened" to have listed John Kerry as the most liberal senator in 2004. Let's not get into this debate again. Been there, done that.

[kapkomet]

according to a survey that just "happened" to have listed John Kerry as the most liberal senator in 2004. Let's not get into this debate again. Been there, done that.

Um, by most accounts, based on his LIMITED voting record, he's pretty damn far left.

 

[bmags]

Um, by most accounts, based on his LIMITED voting record, he's pretty damn far left.

 

one account.

[kapkomet]

one account.

And it must be McCain's.

 

The image war has begun - RSO's a centralist. Double

[mr_genius]

I think the tactic of telling Hillary voters " You are idiots. We hate you. Now do what we say." is failing miserably. Go figure, they don't like the snark and personal attacks which have been directed towards them and their candidate. I'm not surprised some of them holding out before they make a decision whom they are going to vote for in November.

[StrangeSox]

one account.

 

What is he centrist on? His tax plan is the definition of income redistribution, his economic plans contain some pretty far-left ideas (windfall tax), he is in favor of strong gun control (handgun bans, licensing, registering, etc.), and he seems pretty left on environmental issues (good thing, imo). I don't know his stances on all of the social issues, but he seems pretty left on those, too.

[lostfan]

I think the tactic of telling Hillary voters " You are idiots. We hate you. Now do what we say." is failing miserably. Go figure, they don't like the snark and personal attacks which have been directed towards them and their candidate. I'm not surprised some of them holding out before they make a decision whom they are going to vote for in November.

My feelings towards THEM are based entirely off of their actions.

[KipWellsFan]

Um, by most accounts, based on his LIMITED voting record, he's pretty damn far left.

 

I think your head would explode then if you actually encountered a far left politician then. Really are there that many bills that make it before the senate, that voting either way would be radical?

 

Obama is skeptacle of affirmative action preffering social programs which aid all people of lower and middle incomes instead of just groups based on race or other characteristics. Far left politicians like affirmative action. In Canada for instance there is a point in the constitution that affirmative action cannot be deemed discriminatory and is therefore legal.

 

Obama favors expanded military action in Afghanistan. Far left politicians want out of Afghanistan completely.

 

Obama is against same-sex marriage. Far left politicians... obviously in favour.

 

Obama is comfortable and open in talking about his faith and says faith cannot be ignored in policy debate. Most far left politicians are secular or atheists or koombayah.

 

Obama is respected by a number of his Senate Republican colleagues. Something tells me if Obama was far left there wouldn't be so much camaraderie.

 

And on and on I can go. Lets save "far left" for those who deserve it.

[longshot7]

What is he centrist on? His tax plan is the definition of income redistribution, his economic plans contain some pretty far-left ideas (windfall tax), he is in favor of strong gun control (handgun bans, licensing, registering, etc.), and he seems pretty left on environmental issues (good thing, imo). I don't know his stances on all of the social issues, but he seems pretty left on those, too.

 

Most Americans favor Universal Health Care - so does Obama.

Most Americans want to get out of Iraq asap - so does Obama.

Most Americans want Social Security to be fixed - so does Obama.

Most Americans want Bin Laden to be caught - so does Obama.

Most Americans want a higher tax rate for millionaires - so does Obama.

Most Americans want the new energy alternatives explored - so does Obama.

Most Americans want some forms of gun control - so does Obama.

etc etc etc.

 

Seems pretty Centrist to me. The problem is the Right doesn't want what most Americans want - they want what a select few want. And that's not democracy.