2008 General Election Discussion Thread

[mr_genius]

That was supposed to be green, yes?

 

McCain's campaign thus far has been about Obama, Obama and Obama.

 

Obama's has been about G W Bush, and G W Bush, and G W Bush. go figure. i didn't know he was even running.

 

Both candidates have actually come out with policy stuff, but why go with that when you can have bumper sticker slogans and paris hilton on tv ads?

Edited August 18, 2008 by mr_genius

[lostfan]

I mean, really. Look at McCain's ads and see what they're about (I cannot think of a single one that hasn't been about what's wrong with Obama, for example the silly "who is responsible for high gas prices" with the Obama chant in the background, although not bothering to explain why or how McCain is not responsible), and then look at Obama's (the ones which are not responses to McCain ads, for example his Olympics ad). You tell me. There is a pretty distinct difference in tone and focus in these ads. If you can't see what I'm talking about it's because you're trying not to.

 

Does Obama talk about his opponent and the unpopular incumbent that is a political advantage? Yeah. Of course he does. I didn't say he didn't.

[kapkomet]

I can actually sense that McCain's starting to shift things to himself a bit.

 

[mr_genius]

I mean, really. Look at McCain's ads and see what they're about (I cannot think of a single one that hasn't been about what's wrong with Obama, for example the silly "who is responsible for high gas prices" with the Obama chant in the background, although not bothering to explain why or how McCain is not responsible), and then look at Obama's (the ones which are not responses to McCain ads, for example his Olympics ad). You tell me. There is a pretty distinct difference in tone and focus in these ads. If you can't see what I'm talking about it's because you're trying not to.

 

Does Obama talk about his opponent and the unpopular incumbent that is a political advantage? Yeah. Of course he does. I didn't say he didn't.

 

I haven't seen an Obama olympic ad. Is McCain going to try to neutralize one of Obama's political advantages, the mainstream news media? of course. I actually haven't seen this policy driven Obama campaign you speak of. I have seen constant bumper sticker slogans from him and his comparisons of G W Bush to McCain.

[lostfan]

That back-and-forth and posturing is standard political strategy and I honestly don't see how someone who considers themselves politically literate could act surprised. But until lately, McCain has spent very little time talking about his own campaign goals except as a way of mocking Obama.

 

(Insert random response mocking the premise of "change" here)

[mr_genius]

That back-and-forth and posturing is standard political strategy and I honestly don't see how someone who considers themselves politically literate could act surprised. But until lately, McCain has spent very little time talking about his own campaign goals except as a way of mocking Obama.

 

(Insert random response mocking the premise of "change" here)

 

No one is surprised. I'm just pointing out that the Obama campaign hasn't been any more substantive than McCain's. But you see, it is still fairly early, there hasn't even been a debate yet. Policy differences will be shown.

[lostfan]

No one is surprised. I'm just pointing out that the Obama campaign hasn't been any more substantive than McCain's. But you see, it is still fairly early, there hasn't even been a debate yet. Policy differences will be shown.

Meh, those of us who have been following this know what their stances are on policy issues.

[mr_genius]

Meh, those of us who have been following this know what their stances are on policy issues.

 

true, but elections aren't won by winning over 'politicos' such as posters in the filibuster.

[Rex Kickass]

No one is surprised. I'm just pointing out that the Obama campaign hasn't been any more substantive than McCain's. But you see, it is still fairly early, there hasn't even been a debate yet. Policy differences will be shown.

 

Actually, you don't hear Obama talking about his opponent as much as the reverse is true. There was a good month where I didn't hear McCain talk about himself without mentioning his running mate. Obama talks about change - and although his speeches do tend to be rather vague, its not like McCain is much more specific.

 

This election looks far different to me than any election in the last 12 years because we actually have a candidate that people are voting for. That energy always trumps the people who are voting against the other guy.

 

I don't hear about many people voting FOR McCain these days. Even if they are punching his name on the ballot.

[mr_genius]

Actually, you don't hear Obama talking about his opponent as much as the reverse is true. There was a good month where I didn't hear McCain talk about himself without mentioning his running mate. Obama talks about change - and although his speeches do tend to be rather vague, its not like McCain is much more specific.

 

This election looks far different to me than any election in the last 12 years because we actually have a candidate that people are voting for. That energy always trumps the people who are voting against the other guy.

 

I don't hear about many people voting FOR McCain these days. Even if they are punching his name on the ballot.

 

See that is from the Dem perspective. A lot of G.W. Bush voters were voting for him, as Democrats were basically voting anyone but him. So I would say the reason you think this election is so much different is because you personally really like the Dem candidate. Obama voters hear the slogans and think "yea, i like that. change." However, I just hear a bunch of marketing slogans and not much substance. Eye of the beholder I suppose.

[mr_genius]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/080...I_will_win.html

 

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

 

oh come on now. and we aren't supposed to take cheap shots at this i assume

 

and from Obama:

 

"Now, you want to win. And saying it doesn’t make it so," he told the crowd. "It would be nice to think that after eight years of economic disaster, after eight years of bungled foreign policy, of being engaged in a war that should never have been authorized and should never have been waged, that cost us a trillion dollars and thousands of lives, that people would say, let’s toss the bums out. Toss the bums out, we’re starting from scratch, we’re starting over. This is not working."

 

“So I understand why a lot of folks are saying, this should just happen. Why are we having to run all these television commercials? Why do we have to raise all this money? Just read the papers. These are the knuckleheads who have been in charge. Throw ‘em out. But American politics aren’t that simple," he said.

 

"The fact of the matter is, at a certain point, when government has not been serving the people for this long, people get cynical. They tune out. And they start saying to themselves, a plague on both your houses. They are willing to consume negative information more frequently than positive information, for good reason. They’ve seen how promises haven’t been kept," he said.

 

Hmmm. Yea, like I said... He is running a "I'm not GW Bush" strategy.

Edited August 18, 2008 by mr_genius

[Rex Kickass]

See that is from the Dem perspective. A lot of G.W. Bush voters were voting for him, as Democrats were basically voting anyone but him. So I would say the reason you think this election is so much different is because you personally really like the Dem candidate. Obama voters hear the slogans and think "yea, i like that. change." However, I just hear a bunch of marketing slogans and not much substance. Eye of the beholder I suppose.

 

I went door to door for Kerry and spoke with a lot of Republican voters. The most common objection - "Yeah, he's been a mess but Kerry would be worse." Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

[Balta1701]

I went door to door for Kerry and spoke with a lot of Republican voters. The most common objection - "Yeah, he's been a mess but Kerry would be worse." Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

The funny thing was though, I'm pretty sure that getting that single message across was the main goal of the people running the Bush campaign. The Swift Boat ads, all the flip-flopper stuff...all of that was designed to make people think Kerry would be somehow worse than the debacle we were already running with.

 

By no coincidence...I'd say you're seeing a lot of the same right now.

[mr_genius]

I went door to door for Kerry and spoke with a lot of Republican voters. The most common objection - "Yeah, he's been a mess but Kerry would be worse." Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

 

Did you talk to some guy who works in a mill? I like mill worker stories.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just messing with you. but i know for a fact a lot of evangelicals and neo-cons really loved GW Bush. I didn't, but I never voted for him.

[kapkomet]

Did you talk to some guy who works in a mill? I like mill worker stories.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just messing with you. but i know for a fact a lot of evangelicals and neo-cons really loved GW Bush. I didn't, but I never voted for him.

That's just not true. I held my nose and voted for the guy... and I'm the same with McCain at this point, except it's worse - like I might not even vote. Which is sad, because I'm interested in the process, I just can't bring myself to like the guy at all...

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

That's just not true. I held my nose and voted for the guy... and I'm the same with McCain at this point, except it's worse - like I might not even vote. Which is sad, because I'm interested in the process, I just can't bring myself to like the guy at all...

Have you looked at 3rd party candidates? As much as the media tries to make us think this, it's not a 2 party system.

[NorthSideSox72]

That's just not true. I held my nose and voted for the guy... and I'm the same with McCain at this point, except it's worse - like I might not even vote. Which is sad, because I'm interested in the process, I just can't bring myself to like the guy at all...

Vote. Please vote. Vote for whomever you think is the best available (which I realize may not be great), but still vote. Look at 3rd party candidates.

 

[kapkomet]

Vote. Please vote. Vote for whomever you think is the best available (which I realize may not be great), but still vote. Look at 3rd party candidates.

Oh I'll end up voting - and probably for Bob Barr at this point... but I just hate the choices I have...

[mr_genius]

That's just not true. I held my nose and voted for the guy... and I'm the same with McCain at this point, except it's worse - like I might not even vote. Which is sad, because I'm interested in the process, I just can't bring myself to like the guy at all...

 

whats not true? evangelicals and neo-cons didn't like G.W Bush?

[kapkomet]

whats not true? evangelicals and neo-cons didn't like G.W Bush?

Well, now we get into those definitions. I do think "neo-con" might be the most overused and wrongly used description in forever, much like "liberal", but that's another topic.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

Oh I'll end up voting - and probably for Bob Barr at this point... but I just hate the choices I have...

Bob Barr is a fine canidate. he really needs more press coverage

 

In all honesty, I wish we had a strong 3 party system.

[mr_genius]

Well, now we get into those definitions. I do think "neo-con" might be the most overused and wrongly used description in forever, much like "liberal", but that's another topic.

 

neo-con is usually referred to as a Republican whom supports large government spending, big budgets, the US maintaining status as the worlds main superpower. The term was originally coined as referring to a Democrat whom went Republican. Unfortunately these ideas of big government and foreign policy being a major aspect of the government was something that has been embraced by a segment of the GOP voting block. These are not traditional Republican stances.

[lostfan]

neo-con is usually referred to as a Republican whom supports large government spending, big budgets, the US maintaining status as the worlds main superpower. The term was originally coined as referring to a Democrat whom went Republican. Unfortunately these ideas of big government and foreign policy being a major aspect of the government was something that has been embraced by a segment of the GOP voting block. These are not traditional Republican stances.

The people who hijacked the Republican party.

[Rex Kickass]

Vote. Please vote. Vote for whomever you think is the best available (which I realize may not be great), but still vote. Look at 3rd party candidates.

 

Actually, no. Please don't vote. If you can't vote for your guy and are voting for someone to vote against someone else, please do the world a favor and don't fill out the ballot at all. Because our system will only fix itself when people support the candidates that are running rather than voting against someone else.

[kapkomet]

Actually, no. Please don't vote. If you can't vote for your guy and are voting for someone to vote against someone else, please do the world a favor and don't fill out the ballot at all. Because our system will only fix itself when people support the candidates that are running rather than voting against someone else.

That's pretty idealistic. There's not a single solitary candidate for president in my lifetime that I can say I voted FOR rather then voted AGAINST because the choices have simply sucked.

 

Voted AGAINST Clinton 1992, 1996.

Voted AGAINST the Goracle in 2000.

Voted AGAINST Kerry in 2004.

 

Because, simply put, the Re-pube-licans were better then the alternative IMO. If there were a "conservative Democrat", I'd vote for him/her tomorrow. And there's a few out there, you just never hear about them.