2008 General Election Discussion Thread

[lostfan]

cant now. McCain didnt play by the rules he said he would. Gloves are off now. I agree, but like I said earlier, you cant get heard being peppy.

I don't buy this at all. You don't have to stoop to your opponent's level unless it's a last resort, and even still, you don't have to get into trivial BS like this.

 

Let's use this logic elsewhere on another example to see how it applies. The United States says "we don't torture." Our enemies ignore it. So in retaliation we torture. Is that an ok justification? No, it is not.

[southsider2k5]

So, clearly then you're going to abstain from voting since John McCain's tactics pissed you off so much, and if Senator Obama's campaign had not responded in kind you would have voted for him?

 

Honestly the people campaigning for Obama have done more to convince me to vote for John McCain than John McCain ever could have. Watching his backslide away from what made him a great candidate in the first place has been depressing. If it hadn't have been for the Obama-trons, I would have seriously looked at the Libertarian candidate. More and more these people have convinced me to look further into the man, the myth, the legend, and the more I see, the more I see the man behind the curtian. He's not going to be a better President, he is just a better actor. Seeing the blatant two-faces of the Obama campaign, while getting it shoved down my throat has been simply nauseating. Somedays I swear that AHB is actually working for John McCain, and is just trying to piss people off so that they won't vote for Obama. Go ahead and give me all of the preachy "if that's why you vote" crap you like, I have had it with the Obama campaign. Hell I am ready to open a McCain campaign office in my house just to counter this exact type of BS, and do anything I can to make sure that Barack Obama does not win this election.

[southsider2k5]

dont touch age with a 10foot poll. Let MoveOn or a union hit that.

It's ok for Lieberman to call Obama a nice YOUNG man, but the moment obama says McCains a geezer, forget it. over. THe GOP will pounce like a pride of lions.

 

Kinda like any attempt to call Obama smart has been countered with turned into racial garbage since day one?

[Rex Kickass]

McCain's "rich" and Obama wants him to pay more taxes. Or something.

 

Saying RSO isn't ready for the job by raising his RSO status was clever, and had a little meaning to it. Investment of real estate certainly isn't something that's "shady", unless you get to mortgage things for under market rates because you're a Democrat senator.

 

I personally love how you deride shady tactics and then in the same breath use a cheap shot that's already been debunked. Like an accusation that a senator with a wife who works for the University of Chicago gets an "under the table" discount that is consistent with someone with good credit would normally get on a mortgage.

[kapkomet]

I personally love how you deride shady tactics and then in the same breath use a cheap shot that's already been debunked. Like an accusation that a senator with a wife who works for the University of Chicago gets an "under the table" discount that is consistent with someone with good credit would normally get on a mortgage.

Yes, Rex, it was debunked, and I was kidding - hence the smilies... Sorry, I didn't put it in green.

[Rex Kickass]

Ain't no thing but a chicken wing on a string.

[lostfan]

Reading kap's rants sometimes makes my day.

[HuskyCaucasian]

DOH!

 

McCain's Buy Beach Condo... Tell Americans to Skip Vacation

It turns out that a few months ago, a McCain family corporation closed on a second multi-million-dollar beach condo in exclusive Coronado, California, at around the same time that John McCain offered his somewhat tone-deaf observation that struggling homeowners were "working at second jobs" and "skipping a vacation" in order to make mortgage payments on time.

 

Cindy McCain discussed the timing of the second condo purchase in a June interview with Vogue magazine (not online) that's newly relevant in light of the explosive controversy over John McCain's inability to recall how many homes the McCains own.

 

And in another fun fact that could pour fuel on this controversy, Cindy told her interviewer that the reason they needed a second beach condo in the Coronado building was that the first was too crowded because her kids were staying there and as a result she "couldn't get in the place."

 

Cindy continued: "So I bought another one."

[lostfan]

DOH!

 

McCain's Buy Beach Condo... Tell Americans to Skip Vacation

Just a thought but shouldn't this go in the Dem thread?

[kapkomet]

Reading kap's rants sometimes makes my day.

 

I'm glad you can find humor in them, because most of the time, it is supposed to be humor. I don't take it that serious, all kidding aside.

 

Although, I will say this. I may not be the best at what I'm trying to type on here, but southsider just said it pretty well, and it's actually pretty close to what I think, because honestly, RSO is ABSOLUTELY no better then any of the rest of them despite how you all want to always see how he's "better". It's kind of like when you buy a new car. It sure does ride pretty when you first by it, but eventually, it turns into a piece of s***, and that's how I see RSO. I cannot STAND McCain, but if it keeps RSO from getting the White House, then I'll gladly wear the latex gloves and hold my nose and pull the lever for McCain.

[lostfan]

 

I'm glad you can find humor in them, because most of the time, it is supposed to be humor. I don't take it that serious, all kidding aside.

Some of them are obviously nonsensical and it's just funny to watch you rant around in circles.

[jasonxctf]

interesting read about the whole 7 houses thing...

 

Analysis: Why the Home Debate Matters

In politics, there is nothing worse than appearing out of touch.

 

From time immemorial, a candidate who is effectively portrayed as forgetting about the "little" people, of having "gone Washington," of living higher on the hog than voters, loses.

 

Class remains a powerful motivator for many voters in the country. Politicians are forever trying to cast their candidacies as closely rooted in the communities from which they sprung -- a purposeful attempt to ensure that voters know that the candidate "understands the problems of people like you." Put simply: The worst thing you can call a politician is an elitist.

 

And so, seen through that lens, it makes perfect sense why Democrats have picked up on John McCain's comment that he wasn't sure about how many houses he and his wife own -- comments made to Politico's Mike Allen and J-Mart -- and why Republicans have fought back so quickly and so hard.

 

Let's revisit the events of the last 24 hours.

 

The initial question, put to McCain during an interview in Las Cruces, N.M., seemed to catch the Arizona senator off guard. "I think -- I'll have my staff get to you," McCain said. "It's condominiums where -- I'll have them get to you." That's not exactly the sort of definitive language that politicians and their handlers like to use when dealing with the media.

 

Democrats, sensing an opportunity to show McCain as out of step with voters, quickly began blasting away.

 

"I guess if you think that being rich means you've got to make $5 million and if you don't know how many houses you have, then it's not surprising that you might think the economy was fundamentally strong," said Barack Obama during a rally this morning in Chester, Virginia. "But if you're like me, and you've got one house, or you are like the millions of people who are struggling right now to keep up with their mortgage so they don't lose their home, you might have a different perspective."

 

The Obama campaign quickly produced an ad noting that McCain actually owns seven homes worth $13 million; as an image of the White House is shown, a narrator intones: "Here's one house America can't afford to let John McCain move into."

 

The onslaught by the Obama campaign was greeted in kind by McCain.

 

"Does a guy who made more than $4 million last year, just got back from vacation on a private beach in Hawaii and bought his own million-dollar mansion with the help of a convicted felon really want to get into a debate about houses?" asked McCain spokesman Brian Rogers. "Does a guy who worries about the price of arugula and thinks regular people 'cling' to guns and religion in the face of economic hardship really want to have a debate about who's in touch with regular Americans?"

 

The McCain campaign also promised to put Obama's ties to Tony Rezko front and center in the race now, insisting that the Illinois senator's decision to attack on the home front (heyooo!) made a discussion of his ties to the convicted real estate developer fair game.

 

WOW.

 

Anytime you hear such heated rhetoric from the campaigns, you can assume that the issue being debated is one where both sides want/need badly to win.

 

And, a quick glance at recent political history shows why.

 

In 2004, Sen. John Kerry (Mass.) lost to George W. Bush for a number of reasons but one of the biggest was the fact that voters believed the Massachusetts senator was not like them. Thanks to a very effective Republican branding campaign (and with a major assist from Matt Drudge) the image many voters had of Kerry was of a windsurfing, Swiss boarding school-educated, swiss-cheese-on-cheesesteak-ordering elitist who could never understand the struggles that they and their families experienced on a daily basis.

 

But it's not just Democrats who have had the elitist card played on them. Think back to 1992 when then Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton cast himself as the everyman -- son of a single mother, grew up poor in the South, loved late-night McDonald's run -- while painting President George H.W. Bush as an ineffectual elitist who didn't know how to use a grocery scanner. (An Obama aide even made that comparison to The Atlantic's Marc Ambinder.)

 

In this campaign, it is Obama who has struggled to convince voters that he shares their hopes and worries. During the protracted primary fight, Obama regularly lost working class voters to Hillary Rodham Clinton -- even long after it became clear he was the odds-on nominee of the party.

 

Depending on which data points you look at, Obama continues to be plagued by a lack of connection with voters -- or not.

 

In the most recent NBC/Wall Street Journal, a national sample was asked whether McCain or Obama "has a background and set of values that you can identify with." Sixty percent said McCain had a background they identified with while 33 percent said he did not. The numbers were far more divided for Obama with 50 percent saying he had a background they could identify with and 42 percent saying he did not.

 

But, in a CBS/New York Times also released last night, 55 percent of voters said they could "relate" to Obama while just 41 percent said the same of McCain.

 

(Check out the latest "Behind the Numbers" post for more on the polling data behind the connection question.)

 

While the numbers show a public divided on which candidate they relate to better, even Obama partisans acknowledge that one of their main tasks between now and November is ensuring that voters learn more about their candidate's background so that they feel comfortable voting for him. Unlike McCain who has been in the national spotlight for more than two decades, Obama is something of a tabula rasa for voters.

 

For Obama then, McCain's house confusion is a double whammy. Not only does it allow them to paint the Arizona senator as out of touch with the concerns of voters but it also gives Obama a platform on which to tout himself as a champion of the working class.

 

One other interesting side note about the housing story: If Obama's campaign had planned to roll out their vice presidential pick at any point today, that announcement is likely to be put on hold. Why? The campaign believes the story about McCain's many houses is political gold and they won't want to step on it with a veep announcement that would immediately change the day's storyline.

 

[Balta1701]

So, first of all, if you're going to post an article like that, please include a link to the source, it's common internet courtesy. And if it's from the AP, they've been really, really b****y about that lately.

 

Second...honestly...it doesn't matter at all to me. it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't be surprising that a man running for the Presidency has earned a lot of money, or that he doesn't know how much a gallon of milk costs, or that you don't want to have a beer with him. What should matter is the policies.

 

But it matters because of the system we've allowed to grow up, a system that convinces people that it matters. A system where one candidate gives full policy details on something, the other responds with "Oh that's just fuzzy math!" and the media goes along with it. A system where 50,000 scientists come out and say something is really going to screw up the planet, so an oil company funds a think tank or two and suddenly the media thinks drilling offshore in the U.S. will give us more oil than OPEC puts out.

 

Unfortunately, right now, we can't destroy that system without first winning through that system. And without a mind meld, I have no idea if my candidate is going to be able to put the disastrous system that helped feed the last 8 years in its places. But he's got a better shot than the other guy, the guy who calls the current system "His base", and that's a pretty good start in my book.

[whitesoxfan101]

Honestly the people campaigning for Obama have done more to convince me to vote for John McCain than John McCain ever could have. Watching his backslide away from what made him a great candidate in the first place has been depressing. If it hadn't have been for the Obama-trons, I would have seriously looked at the Libertarian candidate. More and more these people have convinced me to look further into the man, the myth, the legend, and the more I see, the more I see the man behind the curtian. He's not going to be a better President, he is just a better actor. Seeing the blatant two-faces of the Obama campaign, while getting it shoved down my throat has been simply nauseating. Somedays I swear that AHB is actually working for John McCain, and is just trying to piss people off so that they won't vote for Obama. Go ahead and give me all of the preachy "if that's why you vote" crap you like, I have had it with the Obama campaign. Hell I am ready to open a McCain campaign office in my house just to counter this exact type of BS, and do anything I can to make sure that Barack Obama does not win this election.

 

I think there is a distinct chance Obama loses in November because of people like you, because there are so many people who agree with you on this election right now, and I don't think Obama or his people realize it. They still think that people buy he is the "candidate for change" and "a different kind of politician", when (fortunately) it turns out people aren't stupid enough to but that. People can vote for Obama if they want to, but if they think he's really any different they are simply lying to themselves because he's not. At all.

[kapkomet]

I think there is a distinct chance Obama loses in November because of people like you, because there are so many people who agree with you on this election right now, and I don't think Obama or his people realize it. They still think that people buy he is the "candidate for change" and "a different kind of politician", when (fortunately) it turns out people aren't stupid enough to but that. People can vote for Obama if they want to, but if they think he's really any different they are simply lying to themselves because he's not. At all.

Thank you for saying it better then I apparantly can(not).

 

 

[KipWellsFan]

I think there is a distinct chance Obama loses in November because of people like you, because there are so many people who agree with you on this election right now, and I don't think Obama or his people realize it. They still think that people buy he is the "candidate for change" and "a different kind of politician", when (fortunately) it turns out people aren't stupid enough to but that. People can vote for Obama if they want to, but if they think he's really any different they are simply lying to themselves because he's not. At all.

 

 

Or maybe it's because you guys are cynical as hell and will make whatever excuses you can so you can ignore the quality of candidates like John McCain and Barack Obama who are both great Americans.

 

And "change" is one of the most successful and often repeated strategies in winning elections and support all over the world, in fact I would encourage Obama to continue to say it, and say it more, and say it in different ways.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

This thing is about to get REAL nasty.

 

McCain is set to release a tough ad pushing back against Obama's housing attack today featuring the Democrat's ties to Tony Rezko.

 

But what this firefight today hints at is that McCain or his allies will soon pull a greater weapon out of the arsenal than Rezko or Bill Ayers, both of whom they've cited in the past.

 

With Obama hitting so hard on the class angle -- and sure to keep it up -- it's difficult to see how much longer the GOP can avoid the temptation to invoke the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

 

Conservatives can't understand why they're not already hitting Obama on it.

 

Given the temperature the race is at now, it seems the only question is if it surfaces before or after Labor Day.

[bmags]

well how long can you call someone elitist when you yourself came from a prominent family, are rich as hell and wear $4000 shoes and have more houses than you can count? Just because you were dumb in the naval academy doesn't mean you are a good ole boy.

[lostfan]

This thing is about to get REAL nasty.

I hope you realize Obama is the one who opened that door. He really didn't need to go on the offensive.

Edited August 21, 2008 by lostfan

[HuskyCaucasian]

I hope you realize Obama is the one who opened that door. He really didn't need to go on the offensive.

I smell some Keating 5 stuff on the horizon.

[Balta1701]

I smell some Keating 5 stuff on the horizon.

Coming from the official campaign, that would be really silly. Probably more silly than bringing up the Rezko stuff for the 47th time.

[bmags]

I hope you realize Obama is the one who opened that door. He really didn't need to go on the offensive.

 

yes he did he's been on answering for a month to McCain's claims it was about time he made people listen to McCain.

[lostfan]

yes he did he's been on answering for a month to McCain's claims it was about time he made people listen to McCain.

I really don't like it. All of this stuff deserves exactly zero attention.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Podium Scenes At Republican And Democratic Conventions

 

 

 

Take a guess which is the GOP stage

[mr_genius]

 

well that one doesn't even seem finished yet. i hope it's not the Dems, they have a convention coming up!