2008 General Election Discussion Thread

[DukeNukeEm]

FWIW, in response, Obama said that people's families are off limits.

McCain's been up to these dirty tricks all summer, Obama has ways of getting this out.

[lostfan]

McCain's been up to these dirty tricks all summer, Obama has ways of getting this out.

The media loves scandals and they will cover it on their own. But it will blow over and ultimately not matter.

[FlaSoxxJim]

FWIW, in response, Obama said that people's families are off limits.

 

In general, I think that's as it should be. And I hope the daughter is not hounded on this. But I think it's a funny double-standard in politics (on both sides of the aisle) that every candidate has to trot out their all-American, family-values family for photo ops and feel good, and there's no distinction between candidate and family there. But as soon as there is some family issue that could put the candidate in a negative light, then privacy is of the utmost concern and family is off-limits.

 

I actually don't think the media or the Obama campaign has to do anything in order for this to be a major blow. Family Values Sarah Palin's oldest daughter is either about to get disappeared to some Magdalane Home for wayward teen mothers or she will be there in the thick of things during the election, front and center and pregnant. Either way, it's a big black eye for Palin and McCain and their attempts to score with "Values Voters" no matter if it is brought up by the press or the opposition or not.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Bristol Palin is flat out off limits in my opinion. I wont even comment on it at all.

In my humble opinion, even the best parents in the world have kids that dont follow their moral or ethical standards. And frankly, some people make mistakes.

[Balta1701]

LOL, I was just finishing that. Sorry.

Probably doesn't belong in this thread, but the media has done some more pushing and questioning on the question Tex asked, whether the McCain camp knew in advance of picking her. I think now the answer should be changed from "Yes" to "No Comment".

Another reporter attending the lunch asked Holtz-Eakin when he first became aware that Palin's daughter was pregnant with an "out-of-wedlock baby."

 

"It doesn't matter when I became aware," said Holtz-Eakin. "I mean, the governor and Todd Palin issued a statement this morning. The statement, I think, speaks for itself -- which is to say, that they are now conscious that their daughter will have to address the great challenge of raising a child sooner than they might have hoped. And that they are being supportive of her and the man that she will marry and they would ask that we respect their privacy and I think out of respect for that request that's probably all we should say."

 

Asked if the campaign knew about the pregnancy at the time of Palin's selection, Holtz-Eakin said, "As I said, what I think we ought to do is recognize that the governor was completely vetted by the campaign. Senator McCain has complete confidence in her as a running mate and as a future vice president of the United States, and the particulars of the family life of the Palins is really something that's best left to them."

I think it's safe to say that this coming out has seemingly caught the McCain campaign off guard. Typically if you're doing this on your own, then you leak it at some point when you think it won't do a lot of damage, and you leak it through a trusted source so that you're able to frame the debate. All of a sudden it does seem like more than a few people in the McCain campaign were caught off guard and the press has picked up on that as a theme.

 

If anything, I think it's more indicative of the way Senator McCain made the decision on her, without actually going through a full vetting process and just picking the last card on the table after the ones he liked were eliminated.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Bristol Palin is flat out off limits in my opinion. I wont even comment on it at all.

In my humble opinion, even the best parents in the world have kids that dont follow their moral or ethical standards. And frankly, some people make mistakes.

 

In other words, teens will be teens and people will be people. I agree.

 

But I only get concerned when "Family values" elected officials decide they can dictate and legislate the choices my daughter would be allowed to make in a similar situation. If Sarah Palin and her family believe choice is not an option in their case, fine, that is their decision. I, however, also think my daughter's choice should be off limits to the Uber Christians, but sadly it is not.

 

[Balta1701]

In other words, teens will be teens and people will be people. I agree.

 

But I only get concerned when "Family values" elected officials decide they can dictate and legislate the choices my daughter would be allowed to make in a similar situation. If Sarah Palin and her family believe choice is not an option in their case, fine, that is their decision. I, however, also think my daughter's choice should be off limits to the Uber Christians, but sadly it is not.

Just as a thought experiment...let's say that Senator Obama's kids were a bit older and we found out one of them was Pregnant at age 17. Or we found out that Chelsea was pregnant at age 17. What would the reaction have been from the Limbaughs, Hannity's, Dobsons, etc.? Would they have left the kid alone?

[mr_genius]

Probably doesn't belong in this thread, but the media has done some more pushing and questioning on the question Tex asked, whether the McCain camp knew in advance of picking her. I think now the answer should be changed from "Yes" to "No Comment".

I think it's safe to say that this coming out has seemingly caught the McCain campaign off guard. Typically if you're doing this on your own, then you leak it at some point when you think it won't do a lot of damage, and you leak it through a trusted source so that you're able to frame the debate. All of a sudden it does seem like more than a few people in the McCain campaign were caught off guard and the press has picked up on that as a theme.

 

If anything, I think it's more indicative of the way Senator McCain made the decision on her, without actually going through a full vetting process and just picking the last card on the table after the ones he liked were eliminated.

 

Senior McCain campaign officials said McCain knew of the daughter's pregnancy when he selected Palin last week as his vice presidential running mate, deciding that it did not disqualify the 44-year-old governor in any way.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idU...=22&sp=true

 

No comment? well yea, it's not a political matter, it's a personal family thing.

 

 

[WilliamTell]

Guys I'm only going to tell you this once, please stop talking about my fiancee and I. We want our privacy.

 

 

Families shouldn't be talked about during an election, but sadly they will be because the media is going to showcase stories that sell and this story sells.

 

Another side note and this is starting to get me angry. I've come across a few women on TV who were Hillary supporters that have switched to McCain because Palin. To me this comes across as sexist because it seems they're solely voting for a woman. Obviously if I decided to switch to Obama because of a female VP, I'd be sexist.

Edited September 1, 2008 by WilliamTell

[mr_genius]

Here's the key, if the rumors are that the 4 month old baby actually belonged to the daughter, but the daughter is 5 months pregnant with another child, then the 4 month old can't possibly belong to the daughter. The daughter would have to have been 1 month pregnant at the time that she gave birth to the other kid for that to work out.

 

nope. nope. the 4 month old baby is the daughter's too. i read it on dailkos. it must be true.

[mr_genius]

Just as a thought experiment...let's say that Senator Obama's kids were a bit older and we found out one of them was Pregnant at age 17. Or we found out that Chelsea was pregnant at age 17. What would the reaction have been from the Limbaughs, Hannity's, Dobsons, etc.? Would they have left the kid alone?

 

i have no idea, or really care, what they would do.

 

if Chelsea got an abortion should that be front page news?

[Balta1701]

i have no idea, or really care, what they would do.

 

if Chelsea got an abortion should that be front page news?

I don't know if it should be, but if was publicly found out, it would be. Abso-freaking-lutely.

[mr_genius]

I don't know if it should be, but if was publicly found out, it would be. Abso-freaking-lutely.

 

it shouldn't be and the media wouldn't touch it.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Just as a thought experiment...let's say that Senator Obama's kids were a bit older and we found out one of them was Pregnant at age 17. Or we found out that Chelsea was pregnant at age 17. What would the reaction have been from the Limbaughs, Hannity's, Dobsons, etc.? Would they have left the kid alone?

 

You and I both know the answer to that. Hell, Chelsea got pretty pummled just for being a little frumpy growing up. If she became pregnant while Clinton was in office, it would have been like Christmas for the wingnut bobbleheads. Dad's perceived loose morals ruining those of his daughter, etc.

 

Not even a question they'd have been all over that for as long as possible.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Just as a thought experiment...let's say that Senator Obama's kids were a bit older and we found out one of them was Pregnant at age 17. Or we found out that Chelsea was pregnant at age 17. What would the reaction have been from the Limbaughs, Hannity's, Dobsons, etc.? Would they have left the kid alone?

Oh, witho ut a doubt Rush would go off on how the Obama family is leading by example and with them in power they will say it's ok for teenagers to run around and get knocked up and rely on wellfare. No doubt in my mind.

[lostfan]

it shouldn't be and the media wouldn't touch it.

Yes they would, without a doubt. Remember when Bush's daughters got caught drinking how much to do was made about that?

[mr_genius]

Yes they would, without a doubt. Remember when Bush's daughters got caught drinking how much to do was made about that?

 

Actually they wouldn't. There is a difference when it comes to Republican families, as the MSM pretty much left Clinton's kid alone.

 

The MSM also would not touch an abortion, AT ALL. No way. Limabuagh and Hannity might, but the MSM would not. 100% positive on this one.

 

edit: they might go after a Republican's kid on an abortion, they would probably take the 'hypocrisy' angle.

Edited September 1, 2008 by mr_genius

[lostfan]

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idU...=22&sp=true

 

No comment? well yea, it's not a political matter, it's a personal family thing.

Well I mean he's not going to say he DIDN'T know, that would make him look like a complete dumbass. Of course he's going to say he knew.

 

Do I think he knew? Yeah, probably. Or at least I'd hope so. But I just don't take everything that's said by a politician at face value.

[mr_genius]

Well I mean he's not going to say he DIDN'T know, that would make him look like a complete dumbass. Of course he's going to say he knew.

 

Do I think he knew? Yeah, probably. Or at least I'd hope so. But I just don't take everything that's said by a politician at face value.

 

So you think he should have given a comment ? I'm not sure what you are getting at.

 

I mean, I understand that politicians can't always be taken for their word, but I'm pretty sure everyone that posts here already has that opinion.

Edited September 2, 2008 by mr_genius

[FlaSoxxJim]

Biggest take-home on for me so far with all the Palin revelations since she was tapped is that McCain's team doesn't know how to vet potential running mates.

[lostfan]

So you think he should have given a comment ? what are you getting at?

 

I mean, I understand that politicians can't always be taken for their word, but I'm pretty sure everyone that posts here already has that opinion.

All right, now I'm confused, and I don't know what your position is here so I can't say if I agree or disagree with you.

[mr_genius]

Biggest take-home on for me so far with all the Palin revelations since she was tapped is that McCain's team doesn't know how to vet potential running mates.

 

I'm sure they knew about these 'scandals'. It doesn't matter who he picked, you guys would be going crazy over a 'scandal' with any VP selection.

[mr_genius]

All right, now I'm confused, and I don't know what your position is here so I can't say if I agree or disagree with you.

 

1) McCain knew about it already

2) This 'scandal' hasn't changed my mind about anything

3) McCain refusing to comment on personal family issues is completely legit.

4) It doesn't matter who he picked, it would be 'scandalous' to left wingers. So it is reasonable to consider he knew about this stuff, but didn't think it was a big deal.

[lostfan]

1) McCain knew about it already

2) This 'scandal' hasn't changed my mind about anything

3) McCain refusing to comment on personal family issues is completely legit.

4) It doesn't matter who he picked, it would be 'scandalous' to left wingers. So it is reasonable to consider he knew about this stuff, but didn't think it was a big deal.

Oh, in that case I agree. I just think a denial by the McCain camp that he didn't know is less relevant than the other reasons.

[FlaSoxxJim]

It doesn't matter who he picked, you guys would be going crazy over a 'scandal' with any VP selection.

 

Not really. It's a matter of known versus unknown quantities. Most of the leading GOP veep contenders had already been scrutinized enough that there wouldn't be a bunch of little surprises like this to catch McCain's camp flat-footed. "Troopergate", having to square Palin's past support for Big Oil windfall taxes with McCain's stance against them (and Palin's own family industry ties), and the McCain campaign trying to quickly punt and paint Palin as the climate change expert on the team when she's an avowed climate change denier. . . those are just a few of the things the campaign has had to deal with in just 5 days since tapping her for the spot.

 

"First do no harm" is the golden rule of VP selection, and it's already obvious that the campaign failed in that regard with this selection.