2008 General Election Discussion Thread

[mr_genius]

Not really. It's a matter of known versus unknown quantities. Most of the leading GOP veep contenders had already been scrutinized enough that there wouldn't be a bunch of little surprises like this to catch McCain's camp flat-footed. "Troopergate", having to square Palin's past support for Big Oil windfall taxes with McCain's stance against them (and Palin's own family industry ties), and the McCain campaign trying to quickly punt and paint Palin as the climate change expert on the team when she's an avowed climate change denier. . . those are just a few of the things the campaign has had to deal with in just 5 days since tapping her for the spot.

 

"First do no harm" is the golden rule of VP selection, and it's already obvious that the campaign failed in that regard with this selection.

 

There is no way they didn't know about that stuff, as even I knew about it. Everyone in the state of Alaska knows as well, and she still has a very high approval rating. If he picked Romney, Gingrich, whoever... the exact same sources attacking Palin's family would be all over whomever the GOP selected.

 

The left wing doesn't like the pick, but it doesn't matter, as they are voting Obama no matter what.

[Balta1701]

Not really. It's a matter of known versus unknown quantities. Most of the leading GOP veep contenders had already been scrutinized enough that there wouldn't be a bunch of little surprises like this to catch McCain's camp flat-footed. "Troopergate", having to square Palin's past support for Big Oil windfall taxes with McCain's stance against them (and Palin's own family industry ties), and the McCain campaign trying to quickly punt and paint Palin as the climate change expert on the team when she's an avowed climate change denier. . . those are just a few of the things the campaign has had to deal with in just 5 days since tapping her for the spot.

 

"First do no harm" is the golden rule of VP selection, and it's already obvious that the campaign failed in that regard with this selection.

Time and ABC are reporting that now, post selection, there's a 10 person Republican team heading up to Alaska to do a proper vetting of Governor Palin.

[mr_genius]

Time and ABC are reporting that now, post selection, there's a 10 person Republican team heading up to Alaska to do a proper vetting of Governor Palin.

 

meh, the media is in panic mode because Obama hasn't opened a big gap in this race. I would expect them to go into total attack mode soon, so sending in 10 lawyers to help the VP selection out is probably a good move.

 

edit: but this VP pick seems like it is going to open up family members to a complete free for all media attack. really a shame. i think McCain gave the MSM too much credit assuming they wouldn't go totally in the sewers. THAT was a big miscalculation. so i will concede that point to you.

Edited September 2, 2008 by mr_genius

[Balta1701]

Btw, I just moved the whole Palin discussion here out of the Gustav thread. Just seemed to fit better.

[mr_genius]

Obama today: "People's families are off limits. People's children are definitely off limits. My mother had me when she was only 18."

 

touche, mr.Obama

Edited September 2, 2008 by mr_genius

[KipWellsFan]

meh, the media is in panic mode because Obama hasn't opened a big gap in this race. I would expect them to go into total attack mode soon, so sending in 10 lawyers to help the VP selection out is probably a good move.

 

edit: but this VP pick seems like it is going to open up family members to a complete free for all media attack. really a shame. i think McCain gave the MSM too much credit assuming they wouldn't go totally in the sewers. THAT was a big miscalculation. so i will concede that point to you.

 

I don't give two s***s about Sarah Palin and hate hearing about all this family stuff with her just like I hate all the Obama-Muslim crap.

 

But jeebus, is it just me, or do you try to win every argument with, "the media has a liberal bias."

Edited September 2, 2008 by KipWellsFan

[mr_genius]

But jeebus, is it just me, or do you try to win every argument with, "the media has a liberal bias."

 

it's a major factor in their coverage of McCain and his campaign. Dismissing these motives doesn't allow for a reliable analysis. Just like if we were talking about the reverend Wright thing and FOX news, a pro-GOP bias would have to be mentioned.

 

Nice try tough

[Balta1701]

From the category of "Things that come up when you properly vet a person", it turns out that in the mid 90's, Palin and her husband were members of the Alaskan Independence party, which advocates Alaska bringing up a vote on secession. She was still in contact with their convention earlier this year.

[jasonxctf]

call it a gut feeling, but even though McCain says he knew about this in advance, I don't buy it. If he did know, then he's really out of his mind. The pick of Palin was the "Moral Highground" pick, to pander to his base and to try and peal off any angry Clintonites.

 

1) This doesn't fit well with the moral highground road. How will the evangelicals feel that their lead by example mother, has serious motherly faults?

2) The more we find out about Palin (pro-life, anti sex ed in schools, etc) the more she comes off as an anti-Clinton woman.

 

Also, do we know anything about the father? Who he is?

[BigSqwert]

[whitesoxfan101]

Bristol Palin is flat out off limits in my opinion. I wont even comment on it at all.

In my humble opinion, even the best parents in the world have kids that dont follow their moral or ethical standards. And frankly, some people make mistakes.

 

Agreed 100 percent. I also give credit to Obama for taking the high road here, although since his Mom had him when she was only 18, I don't think he had any other choice. I also think that sometimes teen parents turn out well. Obama seems to have been raised very well by a teen Mom, one of my best friends became a parent at 19 and he is a great father, and there are obviously more examples of it. It's not an ideal situation obviously, but it's not uncommon either and it can work.

 

The Bristol Palin marriage thing seems forced (I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it), but besides that, teen pregnancy is something that happens far too often. It might piss off the far right people, and it might make the young Palin a target to some far left people, but the common person won't care too much IMO. And I can honestly say in good faith I'd have the same reaction if Biden had a daughter who became pregnant out of wedlock at 17 too because I have had a best friend (although he was male and 19) go through a similar situation. People make mistakes, especially young people with sex. It's an unfortunate reality in our country, and gets into the how do we educate our kids about this argument.

 

To me, the bigger problem here is I don't think Palin was vetted as well as she should have been. I'm not sure what McCain did and didn't know about her, but I doubt he knew about all of the baggage or he wouldn't have picked Governor Palin as a running mate imo. She obviously seems like somebody who has a bright future in the GOP, but she is very young, very inexperienced, and has a lot of baggage right now to boot. Maybe she'd have been a better candidate in 4 years, or maybe I'm wrong and she'll help now (I feel like I'm speaking my opinions on Obama right now, outside of the gender difference).

Edited September 2, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[HuskyCaucasian]

I'm sure they knew about these 'scandals'. It doesn't matter who he picked, you guys would be going crazy over a 'scandal' with any VP selection.

Actually, there are reports that McCain has dispatched a group of "vetters" to Alaska to do research n her past. Something you do... BEFORE you pick the VP.

 

It just shows me more every day that they picked her as a political stunt.

[jackie hayes]

I don't give two s***s about Sarah Palin and hate hearing about all this family stuff with her just like I hate all the Obama-Muslim crap.

 

But jeebus, is it just me, or do you try to win every argument with, "the media has a liberal bias."

Yes, but if he had a different argument, you'd be complaining about that too. (That assertion is so blatantly obvious that to deny it or demand evidence would only be further proof of your foaming-at-the-mouth bias.) So it really doesn't matter what is actually said, because it's all your fault anyway.

[kapkomet]

Actually, there are reports that McCain has dispatched a group of "vetters" to Alaska to do research n her past. Something you do... BEFORE you pick the VP.

 

It just shows me more every day that they picked her as a political stunt.

There's a lot more to it then that. A lot.

 

Let it play out for a few days.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

There's a lot more to it then that. A lot.

 

Let it play out for a few days.

what do you mean? I dont follow.

 

By the way: It turns out Palin run a 527... ya know, the ones McCain hates. She also relied heavily on earmarks... something McCain hats. DOH!

[jackie hayes]

From the category of "Things that come up when you properly vet a person", it turns out that in the mid 90's, Palin and her husband were members of the Alaskan Independence party, which advocates Alaska bringing up a vote on secession. She was still in contact with their convention earlier this year.

Now that is very interesting.

 

The Alaskan Independence Party can be summed up in just two words:

ALASKA FIRST!

 

Until we as Alaskans receive our Ultimate Goal, the AIP will continue to strive to make Alaska a better place to live with less government interference in our everyday lives.

 

The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:

 

1) Remain a Territory.

2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.

3) Accept Commonwealth status.

4) Become a State.

 

The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, which was for Alaskans to achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences.

 

http://www.akip.org/

 

They seem to dispute the claim that they are secessionist, saying they only want to hold a vote. But when you explicitly state that that goal is meant to 'further the dream of independence' (paraphrasing)...well, how can one not consider such a group secessionist?

[kapkomet]

what do you mean? I dont follow.

 

By the way: It turns out Palin run a 527... ya know, the ones McCain hates. She also relied heavily on earmarks... something McCain hats. DOH!

Of course she did, because it was her only way up at the time. So what? When it got her to where she needed to be, she then pretty much threw a hand grenade in the whole thing. If she were still tied to it, obviously she wouldn't be where she is.

 

I get this - it's going to be every f***ing thing that's wrong with the world is Sarah Palin and John McCain to all the leftist bloggers. There's still a lot of this to be played out yet, and we'll see where it goes.

 

I heard someone say that Sarah Palin is to John McCain as Harriet Miers is to George Bush. You Democrats can only hope.

 

 

 

[DukeNukeEm]

Actually, there are reports that McCain has dispatched a group of "vetters" to Alaska to do research n her past. Something you do... BEFORE you pick the VP

Can I get a link to that?

[DukeNukeEm]

I get this - it's going to be every f***ing thing that's wrong with the world is Sarah Palin and John McCain to all the leftist bloggers. There's still a lot of this to be played out yet, and we'll see where it goes.

I dont think you have any idea what it's been like being a Barack Obama supporter since about March. The Whitey Tape, Rev. Wright, birth certificates, Ayers... its a never ending stream of smear from the right. The Democrats fight back a little for all of 36 hours and not only do they get huge results, but an absolute trail of tears flowing from the land of the Right.

Edited September 2, 2008 by DukeNukeEm

[Steff]

Can I get a link to that?

 

 

Post #752

 

http://thepage.time.com/2008/09/01/asked-and-not-answered/

 

 

[DukeNukeEm]

Post #752

 

http://thepage.time.com/2008/09/01/asked-and-not-answered/

Thanks!

 

I'm not sure if that will actually work against some right-wing nutjobs elsewhere, but I'll try.

[lostfan]

Thanks!

 

I'm not sure if that will actually work against some right-wing nutjobs elsewhere, but I'll try.

Are you still trolling CU? Or have you been banned yet?

[DukeNukeEm]

Are you still trolling CU? Or have you been banned yet?

No, I've convinced them it would be racist if they ban me.

[kapkomet]

I dont think you have any idea what it's been like being a Barack Obama supporter since about March. The Whitey Tape, Rev. Wright, birth certificates, Ayers... its a never ending stream of smear from the right. The Democrats fight back a little for all of 36 hours and not only do they get huge results, but an absolute trail of tears flowing from the land of the Right.

It's not a smear, because honestly, none of it's stuck.

 

Rev. Wright - that was RSO's own doing, not the right wing. He stepped in his own s*** spot on that one. Birth Certificates? WTF? That's just stupid, and I've never heard of it. Ayers - ok, let's face it, the guy worked with RSO. Period. Closely at that. Yet, no one can prove a thing there, and so that's all the further it's gotten, so what?

 

It's not about "fighting back". It's about taking the high ground, something neither party seems to know how to do. I'm sick of the "gothca" bulls***. Let's just stick to the issues.

[Steff]

Let's just stick to the issues.

 

 

If that's your desire then you should just stay out of the filibuster all together.