2008 General Election Discussion Thread

[Balta1701]

That's sort of what Kerry tried in 2004 when it came to the Swiftboat stuff.

 

It's great to talk about being high minded when it comes to campaigning, but the truth is raw negativity can work, and if you don't fight back, you can get seriously damaged. As to how long this stuff will fly, it all depends on whether or not McCain can get any traction from it. I get the feeling that Obama won't press his negative attacks if McCain won't. Because, in that sense, he's playing the role of a traditional front runner - choosing to challenge his opponent more or less on issues than character. It will be both interesting and sickening to see how this plays out.

That is of course the big problem. If this crap didn't work, then they wouldn't keep doing it.

[bmags]

I think for as much as people dislike it, it probably goes to the fact that there will be, at least a few, elections in everyone's life where they are voting against someone else rather than for a candidate. This creates certainty, that not only do they disagree with them on issues, but on them as a person.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Two New Virginia Polls:

SurveyUSA- Obama 53, McCain 43... Obama +10

Suffolk- Obama 51, McCain 39... Obama +13

[BigSqwert]

My prediction of a blow out seems more plausible with each passing day.

[Balta1701]

My prediction of a blow out seems more plausible with each passing day.

I have a feeling this will resume tightening after at least 1 of the next 2 debates. I really doubt Obama will sweep them.

[BigSqwert]

I have a feeling this will resume tightening after at least 1 of the next 2 debates. I really doubt Obama will sweep them.

 

Nah. The one area McCain had the supposed edge in, foreign policy, turned out to be a draw. At worst I say Obama ties him in one of the next 2 debates. No game changers left after that.

Edited October 6, 2008 by BigSqwert

[bmags]

Nah. The one area McCain had the supposed edge in, foreign policy, turned out to be a draw. At worst I say Obama ties him in one of the next 2 debates. No game changers left after that.

 

But with who it counted, independents, Obama won by like 20 points. If McCain wants a chance at winning the debate, he needs to come off as less contemptful for his opponenent.

[longshot7]

coming from you or any Obama supporter, complaining about 'swiftboating' or 'smear' campaigning is hilarious. like Barry Bonds complaining because Mark McGwire was on steroids.

 

Oh please, how has the O campaign smeared McCain?

[bmags]

Oh please, how has the O campaign smeared McCain?

 

They preface everything with "John McCain is an honorable man who served his country"

[EvilMonkey]

They preface everything with "John McCain is an honorable man who served his country"

and then say "but....."

[Rex Kickass]

and then say "but....."

 

Because there's a lot of buts. The vast majority of Obama's attacks on McCain have been substantive policy-based differences. Do I think the Obama campaign has run a crystal clear campaign with nothing but happy thoughts? Absolutely not, but if I had to compare the campaigns, smear for smear, I think you'd find the McCain dirty playbook to be quite a bit thicker this year.

[mr_genius]

It comes down to perception. A lot Obama supporters see the Obama attack ads as 'truth' but criticism of Obama = smear. When in reality Obama has run a campaign that is equally as dirty. The truth is Obama did start a political campaign at an admitted terrorists residence. Now, I could understand a counter with a reasonable explanation such as "Well, Obama barely knows the guy, and if you are a politician in Chicago you are going to have to deal with some complete crack pots to get your foot in the door".

 

I mean, Ok, so...

 

-McCain is too dumb to use a computer (but he actually can't due to physical injuries)

 

-McCain "looked the other way" rather than investigate Jack Abramoff and a Republican "Culture of Corruption." In fact, McCain's investigation led to a prison term for Abramoff

 

- McCain wants to send little babies to Iraq (oh but that wasn't Obama, right? just his surrogates. but it sure is ok to link McCain to attacks he had nothing to do with)

 

- Keating 5, ignore the fact McCain was cleared of charges

 

- The media's insistence that anyone not supporting Obama is racist (but, but, Obama had nothign to do with that! well you sure like to link McCain to Rush Limbaugh)

 

- a DNC email accuses McCain of running "as far to the right as he can" on immigration and of "aligning himself with the most extreme elements of the Republican Party." Yea right.

 

There is more, don't care to go over all the Obama campaign attacks. This altruistic view of the Obama campaign is not in touch with reality, but neither is McCain, right? He's old and senile, ok, thanks for the info.

 

The Obama campaign has not been running on issues any more or less than McCain. This whole election is messed up. Have fun with it. My apathy level is so high I don't care if we elect Barney the Dinosaur, Sarah Palin, or the Tooth Fairy. Maybe have Palin debate Barney to see if they can reach a conclusion if he actually ever existed.

 

 

*end rant*

Edited October 7, 2008 by mr_genius

[BigSqwert]

Because there's a lot of buts. The vast majority of Obama's attacks on McCain have been substantive policy-based differences. Do I think the Obama campaign has run a crystal clear campaign with nothing but happy thoughts? Absolutely not, but if I had to compare the campaigns, smear for smear, I think you'd find the McCain dirty playbook to be quite a bit thicker this year.

It isn't even close.

[KipWellsFan]

It comes down to perception. A lot Obama supporters see the Obama attack ads as 'truth' but criticism of Obama = smear. When in reality Obama has run a campaign that is equally as dirty. The truth is Obama did start a political campaign at an admitted terrorists residence. You may not like this fact and I honestly don't care. Now, I could understand a counter with a reasonable explanation such as "Well, Obama barely knows the guy, and if you are a politician in Chicago you are going to have to deal with some complete crack pots to get your foot in the door".

 

I mean, Ok, so...

 

-McCain is too dumb to use a computer (but he actually can't due to physical injuries)

 

-McCain "looked the other way" rather than investigate Jack Abramoff and a Republican "Culture of Corruption." In fact, McCain's investigation led to a prison term for Abramoff

 

- McCain wants to send little babies to Iraq (oh but that wasn't Obama, right? just his surrogates. but it sure is ok to link McCain to attacks he had nothing to do with)

 

- Keating 5, ignore the fact McCain was cleared of charges

 

- The media's insistence that anyone not supporting Obama is racist (but, but, Obama had nothign to do with that! well you sure like to link McCain to Rush Limbaugh)

 

There is more, don't care to go over all the Obama campaign ads. This altruistic view of the Obama campaign is not in touch with reality, but neither is McCain, right? He's old and senile, ok, thanks for the info.

 

The Obama campaign has not been running on issues any more or less than McCain. This whole election is messed up. Have fun with it. My apathy level is so high I don't care if we elect Barney the Dinosaur, Sarah Palin, or the Tooth Fairy. Maybe have Palin debate Barney to see if they can reach a conclusion if he actually ever existed.

 

 

*end rant*

 

You are right to a large extent. I think the Obama campaign has greatly benefited from staying positive for so many of those early months in the Democratic Primaries. And the Obama campaign seems to have made sure that they were always a little less negative than Hillary's campaign then and John McCain's now. Or that's my perception at least.

[DukeNukeEm]

 

Something really crazy will need to happen at this point.

[Rex Kickass]

You are right to a large extent. I think the Obama campaign has greatly benefited from staying positive for so many of those early months in the Democratic Primaries. And the Obama campaign seems to have made sure that they were always a little less negative than Hillary's campaign then and John McCain's now. Or that's my perception at least.

 

That's pretty much what I mean. You can be mean, even in a positive campaign - but only if your less mean than your opponent.

[NorthSideSox72]

No doubt in my mind that Obama's campaign has been less scummy tham McCains. Key word: less. Note I didn't say Obama's campaign has been clean.

 

But more than anything, this is probably due to the fact that McCain has been playing from behind.

 

[lostfan]

The recent trash that Obama has been talking is more like chaff. McCain throws s*** at Obama to try and distract, Obama throws s*** back to avoid the news cycle being dominated by that which leaves Obama free to talk about what he wants to talk about.

[Steve9347]

I'd hope by now we've made our choices, but here's another fun little quiz...

 

10/13 of my responses matched Obama. Not at all surprising.

 

Match-o-Matic 2

[BigSqwert]

I'd hope by now we've made our choices, but here's another fun little quiz...

 

10/13 of my responses matched Obama. Not at all surprising.

 

Match-o-Matic 2

 

The quotes were, for the most part, very obvious as to who gave them.

[Steve9347]

The quotes were, for the most part, very obvious as to who gave them.

That's true.

[bmags]

Why this heated language is scary (From Washington post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8100602935.html )

 

(snippits)

 

Barack Obama, she told 8,000 fans at a rally here Monday afternoon, "launched his political career in the living room of a domestic terrorist!" This followed her earlier accusation that the Democrat pals around with terrorists. "This is not a man who sees America the way you and I see America," she told the Clearwater crowd. "I'm afraid this is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to work with a former domestic terrorist who had targeted his own country." The crowd replied with boos.

 

McCain had said that racially explosive attacks related to Obama's former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, are off limits. But Palin told New York Times columnist Bill Kristol in an interview published Monday: "I don't know why that association isn't discussed more."

 

Worse, Palin's routine attacks on the media have begun to spill into ugliness. In Clearwater, arriving reporters were greeted with shouts and taunts by the crowd of about 3,000. Palin then went on to blame Katie Couric's questions for her "less-than-successful interview with kinda mainstream media." At that, Palin supporters turned on reporters in the press area, waving thunder sticks and shouting abuse. Others hurled obscenities at a camera crew. One Palin supporter shouted a racial epithet at an African American sound man for a network and told him, "Sit down, boy."

 

The reception had been better in Clearwater, where Palin, speaking to a sea of "Palin Power" and "Sarahcuda" T-shirts, tried to link Obama to the 1960s Weather Underground. "One of his earliest supporters is a man named Bill Ayers," she said. ("Boooo!" said the crowd.) "And, according to the New York Times, he was a domestic terrorist and part of a group that, quote, 'launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and our U.S. Capitol,' " she continued. ("Boooo!" the crowd repeated.)

 

"Kill him!" proposed one man in the audience.

 

Palin also told those gathered that Obama doesn't like American soldiers. "He said that our troops in Afghanistan are just, quote, 'air-raiding villages and killing civilians,' " she said, drawing boos from a crowd that had not been told Obama was actually appealing for more troops in Afghanistan.

 

"See, John McCain is a different kind of man: He believes in our troops," she said.

[BigSqwert]

With the country on the verge of a depression I'm glad they're bringing up what matters to most people.

[bmags]

Scarier, to me, is the crowd reaction. When you are villifying the other side as a terrorist socialist outsider who doesn't believe in the U.S., is it a surprise the reaction to him will get more violent?

Edited October 7, 2008 by bmags

[Steve9347]

Scarier, to me, is the crowd reaction. When you are villifying the other side as a terrorist socialist outsider who doesn't believe in the U.S., is it a surprise the reaction to him will get more violent?

It's exactly what they want. The McCain campaign continues to reach new lows.