Olympics / Tibet Issue

[mr_genius]

Tangent, should we make a distinction between athletes playing in China and American businesses playing in China? Seems if our corporations can go over there and play, making money for themselves *and* the Chinese, our athletes should be accorded the same opportunity.

 

The corporations that fully support Chinese authoritarianism are much worse than the athletes.

[mr_genius]

But don't we love a country that gets tough in crime instead of coddling them like we do?

 

I'm not really sure what you are going with this post. please explain.

[Balta1701]

The corporations that fully support Chinese authoritarianism are much worse than the athletes.

Isn't part of the idea though of trading with China that simply having contact with the rest of the world through things like the internet, trade, etc., supposed to wind up with one of its net results being a more open and Democratic China? (I'm not sure I believe this, but it's been one of the things claimed for years every time a China discussion comes up...that the best way to liberalize that country isnt' through sanctions, but is in fact through trading with them).

[mr_genius]

Isn't part of the idea though of trading with China that simply having contact with the rest of the world through things like the internet, trade, etc., supposed to wind up with one of its net results being a more open and Democratic China? (I'm not sure I believe this, but it's been one of the things claimed for years every time a China discussion comes up...that the best way to liberalize that country isnt' through sanctions, but is in fact through trading with them).

 

Well, they don't have an open connection to the internet. Google, Yahoo, ect. have agreed to act as a government surrogate. Money is obviously more important than worker standards, freedom of speech, the environment, fair trade, and all that other meaningless dribble. China won't change it's policies and American corporations see a workforce readily available for abuse. win win my friend.

 

right?

[knightni]

It's hypocrisy if the U.S. doesn't go to the Olympics and act like nothing is happening.

 

They've allowed major American corporations to send jobs over there and perpetuate the working conditions that exist.

 

They've also accepted every Chinese s*** product that can be produced there, and only "recoiled" at them when children are injured, ie. AquaDots, lead paint etc.

 

The U.S. government made their bed, now they have to lie in it.

 

 

 

 

[Texsox]

I'm not really sure what you are going with this post. please explain.

 

There are a number of people that believe capital punishment is a good tool for keeping society safe, but we seem to be uncomfortable when other countries are more aggressive then us, but make fun of countries that use it less, or not at all. Look how we have changed what constitutes a capital offense, and whenever we change the line, we believe other countries should also.

 

And it was in green because I generally believe that countries should not have the option to kill citizens.

[WilliamTell]

I don't know how China got the Olympics but it doesn't matter much anymore. There is no way the US should boycott the Olympics like they did in 1980. As said before, politics and athletics are separate things. I don't know much about the Tibet problem either, but if China is going to be in the fore front for the Olympics, they're going to get hammered about it.

 

[mr_genius]

There are a number of people that believe capital punishment is a good tool for keeping society safe, but we seem to be uncomfortable when other countries are more aggressive then us, but make fun of countries that use it less, or not at all. Look how we have changed what constitutes a capital offense, and whenever we change the line, we believe other countries should also.

 

And it was in green because I generally believe that countries should not have the option to kill citizens.

 

Ok, fair enough. But I don't think anyone here has condemned China and then insisted on more capital punishment in the US (or even supported government executions).

 

Thats why it seemed like your quote was a bit out of the proverbial left-field.

 

[Texsox]

Ok, fair enough. But I don't think anyone here has condemned China and then insisted on more capital punishment in the US (or even supported government executions).

 

Thats why it seemed like your quote was a bit out of the proverbial left-field.

 

 

What I was seeing was in regards to the youtube editorial that Jim posted. If that was some scum bag child molester, a certain segment would be cheering. If it was someone in the middle east, perhaps a Palistinian, some would cheer. China does it for their reasons, and people condem. I think it's wrong in all these cases.

[mr_genius]

What I was seeing was in regards to the youtube editorial that Jim posted. If that was some scum bag child molester, a certain segment would be cheering. If it was someone in the middle east, perhaps a Palistinian, some would cheer. China does it for their reasons, and people condem. I think it's wrong in all these cases.

 

Texsox, no one here would cheer a video of random people from the middle east being executed.

 

--The use of ridiculous hyperbolic statements that are so far over the top, that no resonable response of discussion can follow them.

 

c'mon now.

[KipWellsFan]

China's number one priority is national unity, ie keeping Taiwan, Tibet, East Turkestan and whoever else may want to separate under Chinese control. It's been that way for quite a long time now, and it's not like it's just came up since they were selected to hold the Games. I believe Chinese reunification is a prominent ethos in the Chinese political culture, and people might want to check out the 2002 movie Hero to see that. I'm not sure what protest is going to do exactly, and I certainly don't support nimrods running and grabbing the flame from innocent young athletes. Protesting the opening ceremonies for some politicians may be a decent option, but frankly, unless you're going to go all the way and really boycott now, and forever, a policy of engagement seems superior.

 

I don't believe China should be allowed to do anything on the world stage until they treat their people like all the other countries on the world stage.

 

Hmmm, like Russia? Who has an Olympics in 2014? Whose behavior is appropriate enough?

 

[WilliamTell]

China's number one priority is national unity, ie keeping Taiwan, Tibet, East Turkestan and whoever else may want to separate under Chinese control. It's been that way for quite a long time now, and it's not like it's just came up since they were selected to hold the Games. I believe Chinese reunification is a prominent ethos in the Chinese political culture, and people might want to check out the 2002 movie Hero to see that. I'm not sure what protest is going to do exactly, and I certainly don't support nimrods running and grabbing the flame from innocent young athletes. Protesting the opening ceremonies for some politicians may be a decent option, but frankly, unless you're going to go all the way and really boycott now, and forever, a policy of engagement seems superior.

 

 

 

Hmmm, like Russia? Who has an Olympics in 2014? Whose behavior is appropriate enough?

 

 

Oh wow, this might be the first time we agree on something, haha. I can't remember anything else, but it's a very good day when we can actually agree.

[Texsox]

Texsox, no one here would cheer a video of random people from the middle east being executed.

 

 

 

c'mon now.

 

No, not a video.

 

But we had several threads regarding Israel attacking mourners at a funeral. (for example)

[mr_genius]

No, not a video.

 

But we had several threads regarding Israel attacking mourners at a funeral. (for example)

 

 

You suggested that if the cartoon video was of a random middle eastern person being shot, people here would cheer for it. Your post was obviously intended for direct insult to certain posters. Who? I have no idea.

 

Honestly, I have no idea what thread has any content with posters cheering for Israel to attack people at a funeral. If there is one, I don't care to read it.

Edited April 9, 2008 by mr_genius

[lostfan]

If it's a random bad guy/insurgent dying, don't you cheer? I know I do. No love lost at all. People don't condemn that kind of thing in this part of the world unless they're like Westboro looney toons.

[Texsox]

You suggested that if the cartoon video was of a random middle eastern person being shot, people here would cheer for it. Your post was obviously intended for direct insult to certain posters. Who? I have no idea.

 

Honestly, I have no idea what thread has any content with posters cheering for Israel to attack people at a funeral. If there is one, I don't care to read it.

The threads were not random middle Eastern, they were specifically Palestinians.

[EvilMonkey]

The threads were not random middle Eastern, they were specifically Palestinians.

Not sure if that was directed at me or not, but I don't recall posts with me, or others, laughing about mourners being shot by Israelis. In fact, I don't even remember a news story about mourners being shot by Israelis. Did I/someone really do this, or are you making it up to support your argument? Enlighten me, because I very well may have killed off those brain cells (and laughed about it!).

[FlaSoxxJim]

Enlighten me, because I very well may have killed off those brain cells (and laughed about it!).

 

Spit take!!

 

[Mplssoxfan]

For those of us who are lamenting that politics have crept into the world of the Olympics, that horse left the barn a long time ago (1936, to be precise). All of us wishing that politics and sports aren't linked isn't going to make it so. It stinks, but that's the way it is.

[Texsox]

Not sure if that was directed at me or not, but I don't recall posts with me, or others, laughing about mourners being shot by Israelis. In fact, I don't even remember a news story about mourners being shot by Israelis. Did I/someone really do this, or are you making it up to support your argument? Enlighten me, because I very well may have killed off those brain cells (and laughed about it!).

 

The thread I am remembering was mostly led by I4E and Nuke. I forget who else joined in. LCR and others were branded as anti-semitic for thinking killing mourners was a bad thing.

[CanOfCorn]

Back to our regularly scheduled thread...

 

Obviously with all the countries involved, there's going to be some politics involved, but that's what the Olympics is all about. Iraq or Iran and the US on the soccer pitch. Israel and Lebanon competing in track. Whatever the sport, that's all it is, a game. I think every country learned the lesson of 1980 and 1984, leaving the athlete's out of it. If the President doesn't go out of protest, that's up to him/her. My problem with that is the President should be there FOR THE AMERICAN ATHLETES. Does a president of a country do good by not showing or by going and speaking out while they are there? In my humble opinion, boycotting is a major copout. And furthermore, even though I believe in Free Speech, protesting the Olympic torch is ludicrous. The idea of the Olympics is to bring people together, no matter where the Olympics are being held. And the flame represents that. If anything, people should be out in force supporting the carrying of the torch and the idea of bringing athletes together in the politics of sport.

 

Finally, why aren't people outside the IOC headquarters? If anyone should be protested, it's the IOC. They are the ones that chose Beijing. And if they were hardheaded enough to think that China would change its policies in return for 16 days of events...they are absolutely nuts and need to be disbanded.