The OFFICIAL "I was wrong about Joe Crede" thread

[bighurt4life]

So you would risk messing with a winning team (assuming Sox are contending for a pennant at the trade deadline) and play with the club house chemistry etc by trading away Crede?

 

So you do not care what message this would send to the remaining players on the team, most of whom love Crede (go read Kong, Buerhle, AJP's quotes in the Chicagosports.com article today) when they see their friend/team mate gone despite doing everything right this year (again assuming he continues to play well and stays healthy) ....

 

And what do you do if Fields does not perform like Crede after the deadline?

 

And what do you do if Fields makes a fielding error that leads to a critical loss in a playoff game (assuming we get there)?

 

I guess in that case I am happy that Kenny and Ozzie do not think like you because I rather have people in charge who not what it means to win and how to further enable a winning attitude.

 

First, these guys all know that this is a business and sometimes decisions have to be made from a business standpoint, if we have a guy waiting in the wings that can do a comparable job for a fraction of the money that's just good business, especially if we can trade the more expensive player (who is also a FA after the season) for a prospect that can help solidify out farm system or a player that can help us now.

Second, we are only a few games into the season, the playoffs are a long ways away right now,

Third, Fields not performing like Crede is just one of the risks of playing the game, if everything was an absolute then we wouldn't have to play the games. Last year I think he showed that he belongs in the majors and deserves to be starting, lets give him his shot, its not like he's going to be replacing George Brett. Crede is a good 3B and he's one of my favorite players on the team but he's not THAT good that he's unreplaceable

[hi8is]

Whats funny about this post is back in 2005, you were suspended for specially saying Crede being hurt is a good thing. Just thought I would point that out.

 

Continue.

 

I think this video sums up my sentiment in a positive and appropriate fashion:

Come on guys... join in the fun - sing along!

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I think this video sums up my sentiment in a positive and appropriate fashion:

Come on guys... join in the fun - sing along!

 

Good to see you posting. You make way too much sense. Shame on you .

[lostfan]

I'd speak my mind on the subject but in doing so would risk getting suspended myself. This boards a totalitarian system in a lot of ways. I wouldn't be surprised if I get suspended for saying that.

This isn't WSI, the mods here don't get off on suspensions and bans and I get the feeling it's not something they like to do.

[Y2HH]

I don't think Crede or AJ will continue having the seasons they're having, either, but that doesn't change the fact that they're helping us win the EARLY games, which more often than not come back to bite the teams in the ass that lost them in the end when things come down to the wire. See Cleveland in 05, had they not started off so poorly waiting for their younger guys to "come around" we may have lost the division to them that year. We all know what happened at the end of that season, instead. And while Cleveland may not have had much of a choice, since they didn't have the veterans, WE DO have the choice...

 

And I love this thread, even if it's early, we're racking up some all important early wins and Joe "Washed Up" Crede is a BIG FAT HUGE PART OF IT!

 

There is nothing worse than getting hot at the end of the season and losing the division/wildcard by 1 game...simply because you lost a few games early in the season that could have/should have been won.

Edited April 8, 2008 by Y2HH

[YASNY]

I don't think Crede or AJ will continue having the seasons they're having, either, but that doesn't change the fact that they're helping us win the EARLY games, which more often than not come back to bite the teams in the ass that lost them in the end when things come down to the wire. See Cleveland in 05, had they not started off so poorly waiting for their younger guys to "come around" we may have lost the division to them that year. We all know what happened at the end of that season, instead. And while Cleveland may not have had much of a choice, since they didn't have the veterans, WE DO have the choice...

 

And I love this thread, even if it's early, we're racking up some all important early wins and Joe "Washed Up" Crede is a BIG FAT HUGE PART OF IT!

 

There is nothing worse than getting hot at the end of the season and losing the division/wildcard by 1 game...simply because you lost a few games early in the season that could have/should have been won.

 

These games are very big wins for the Sox. These are our division opponents and every W we put up is an L on their record.

[lostfan]

These games are very big wins for the Sox. These are our division opponents and every W we put up is an L on their record.

In 2005 we owned the division. Considering how BRUTAL this division can be, winning division games is critical this year.

[Y2HH]

These games are very big wins for the Sox. These are our division opponents and every W we put up is an L on their record.

 

Agreed.

[Texsox]

I know most of the posters here are either in college or college educated. Structuring a decent argument should be a simple thing. But I guess we get lazy on a message board and resort to the easiest argument.

 

Put your baseball caps on for a minute.

 

The debate should not be which 3rd basemen is better. The debate is will the person playing this, or any position, play to the caliber that will get this team to another World Series. For most of my almost 40 years as an avid Sox fan, we always had guys out there who where not of a playoff caliber team. Just last season, IMHO, we did not have a CF on the roster who was playoff caliber, a glaring weakness. Other years we were missing a pitcher or two.

 

This year, we have an overabundance of players at 3rd who could get us to the playoffs. To read some of these posts that try and paint Fields or Crede as some stiff, is just silly. If we did not have Fields in the system, we'd be happy with Crede's start and smile he's healthy. If we did not have Crede in the system, we'd be happy we developed such a fine young player with so much potential. We're looking like idiots that we can't be happy we have TWO guys right now that could play on a playoff team at 3rd.

 

We have watched Crede play in a World Series and other pressure situations. I think most Sox fans were pretty happy with those performances. It is too early for me to announce he's healthy and can play to those levels again, but it seems likely.

 

After 100 games, Fields has proven a lot, and I am eager to watch his development over the next few seasons. I can't think of a player who was ruined by too slow a development, but perhaps there was one.

 

I see it as a can't lose situation. Obviously one of the guys will be gone next season, either way, I'll be happy we didn't dig a hole for once, but took from an overabundance.

[harfman77]

As someone who wanted to hold on to Crede, I still think this is a little premature. He has had a fantastic first week, but lets see if he can remain at this level. If he maintains this level of play KW will have a big headache on his hands come July, but it will be a good problem to have. I think he has looked a little rusty in the field, mainly due to those 2 errors Sunday, but I think that may be a carry over of not playing for almost a year. What a great position to be in right now with two pretty good 3B.

[Texsox]

BTW, I'll be even happier when we can compare Fields to Ventura or even Melton.

[thedoctor]

i think tex hit the mark with his post. we have two mlb caliber third baseman, one on our roster and one in the minor leagues. that is a good thing any way you look at it.

 

if joe crede has a helluva year, stays healthy and consistent, the 2008 white sox are going to be better for it. if he gets hurt, plays like crap, or just has major issues, we have a ready-made replacement.

 

i fail to see why this has been such a flashpoint for debate. the uribe thing i can understand, but the crede thing is mystifying to me.

[kjshoe04]

I'll admit I was wrong about Crede. Not that he is going to do this for a full season, but I really believed he would be a big liability at the beginning of the season after his spring training. For that, I will admit I have been wrong. We will see later in the year if I am wrong in thinking that Josh Fields should be the starter for this team at third. Hopefully I am dead wrong and we can win this division with Crede at third and move Josh into the starters role next year.

[VAfan]

I've always been a supporter of Joe Crede, even when he couldn't hit a lick. At the start of this season, however, I was finally ready to "dump" him to make way for Josh Fields, who I didn't think should be yo-yo'ed up and down.

 

Now, after only a week of the season, I'm very glad we didn't sell low on Joe Crede. It looks like he may be back to the stroke he had in 2006, when he finally hit 30 HRs and approached 100 RBI. And with a young player ahead of him that can actually get on base -- Carlos Quentin -- Crede can provide that value from the 8 hole, which will make our lineup very difficult to face for a pitcher. Plus, Crede has that "clutch" element -- to hit when it counts -- that is invaluable but is missing from many ballplayers.

 

So what do we do going forward? We play Joe Crede. We keep Josh Fields. Crede is not going to remain with us as a free agent. Not unless he changes agents. And even then, his back problems are too risky to reward him with a big contract. So I see us as just taking advantage of what he can give us, from at least now until late July. At that point, depending on where we are, if he's still healthy, we may consider moving him. In the meantime, Fields is in reserve, ready to go if Joe's back tightens up.

 

The way the Tigers have started has opened a doorway for this season that I didn't think would be there. I thought we'd be better -- .500 or a little higher -- but not able to overtake Detroit and Cleveland, and very unlikely to win enough for a wild card berth. Now, the doorway is open a little wider. While it is, we have to go for it as much as we can. That means keeping Joe Crede right where he is.

[sox-r-us]

i think tex hit the mark with his post. we have two mlb caliber third baseman, one on our roster and one in the minor leagues. that is a good thing any way you look at it.

 

if joe crede has a helluva year, stays healthy and consistent, the 2008 white sox are going to be better for it. if he gets hurt, plays like crap, or just has major issues, we have a ready-made replacement.

 

i fail to see why this has been such a flashpoint for debate. the uribe thing i can understand, but the crede thing is mystifying to me.

 

The reason it is a flashpoint for debate is because all off-season some of these "sox fans" (wink, wink) kept crying about how Kenny was a joke and how the Sox were going to be joke; then this whining became larger when some of the roster moves were made - like picking Crede over Fields and picking Masset over Wasserman. Both Masset and Crede have contributed and justified their selections UNTIL NOW (this is subject to change since only 7 games have gone by); so obviously some of these "sox fans" are all defensive now because they have been exposed to know little to nothing about baseball and winning. Some of these "sox fans" would have much preferred that the Sox would have been 0-7 right now so that they could thump their chests and show how they know more than Kenny W and Ozzie G. Negativity is what is promoted here.....sad, but true.

 

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

[sox-r-us]

This isn't WSI, the mods here don't get off on suspensions and bans and I get the feeling it's not something they like to do.

 

He is correct; knightni already warned me about suspending me for bumping the thread that calls KW and the Sox a joke....if you post negative stuff; it is all good here....typical Sox talk. If you want, I can point you to the thread....go to the thread started by Steve and read it for yourself. All off season, the mods dd not see anything wrong with all of the Sox bashing....now when those who were supporting the moves are throwing it back, the mods suddenly decide to get "nazi" on us.

[knightni]

I warned you because you were only posting there so that you could bump the thread and taunt Steve and his past opinions.

 

You were not posting to contribute anything positive.

[GoodAsGould]

I have no problems with the mods here, ive never been suspended or had to be warned or anything. If you do it's probably because it was deserved. But back to the actual topic of this thread.....I wont say I'm wrong about Crede until he lasts a full season without his back flaring up and he actually produces. I want him too but it is a long season.

[witesoxfan]

The reason it is a flashpoint for debate is because all off-season some of these "sox fans" (wink, wink) kept crying about how Kenny was a joke and how the Sox were going to be joke; then this whining became larger when some of the roster moves were made - like picking Crede over Fields and picking Masset over Wasserman. Both Masset and Crede have contributed and justified their selections UNTIL NOW (this is subject to change since only 7 games have gone by); so obviously some of these "sox fans" are all defensive now because they have been exposed to know little to nothing about baseball and winning. Some of these "sox fans" would have much preferred that the Sox would have been 0-7 right now so that they could thump their chests and show how they know more than Kenny W and Ozzie G. Negativity is what is promoted here.....sad, but true.

 

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

 

You know, you really have a lot of balls to be questioning people's fanhoods. I think it's stupid personally, because you are bound to offend the hell out of someone real soon, and you are going to get torn the f*** into.

 

Have a nice night.

[Kyyle23]

I would like to make one clarifying statement about my feelings regarding Crede, and then I truly am done with this thread until after the World Series.

 

I like Joe Crede as a third baseman for the White Sox, I have supported him through thick and thin(and there has been plenty of thin). I just see Boras as a huge obstacle in the way of Joe staying with the White Sox, and I understand that Boras wants to maximize his value, especially considering his back issues.

 

I also like Josh Fields, and I think he will be a fine player for the Sox as well, but they are currently putting him and themselves in a tough position regarding his MLB future(ie. they are stunting his growth).

 

The season is long, and a lot of things can happen. I just want the Sox to be successful, that is all.

[StrangeSox]

The reason it is a flashpoint for debate is because all off-season some of these "sox fans" (wink, wink) kept crying about how Kenny was a joke and how the Sox were going to be joke; then this whining became larger when some of the roster moves were made - like picking Crede over Fields and picking Masset over Wasserman. Both Masset and Crede have contributed and justified their selections UNTIL NOW (this is subject to change since only 7 games have gone by); so obviously some of these "sox fans" are all defensive now because they have been exposed to know little to nothing about baseball and winning. Some of these "sox fans" would have much preferred that the Sox would have been 0-7 right now so that they could thump their chests and show how they know more than Kenny W and Ozzie G. Negativity is what is promoted here.....sad, but true.

 

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

 

You seem to be more excited about rubbing this in people faces than anything else.

[southsider2k5]

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=169141

 

Translation:

 

I know the Sox aren't going to give Joe the biggest contract offer, but I am leaving the door open for them to surprise me.

[Texsox]

Translation:

 

I know the Sox aren't going to give Joe the biggest contract offer, but I am leaving the door open for them to surprise me.

 

Couple of givens, unless you are offer your "rocker" chair, you leave every possibility open, and always talk nice about the team you are playing for. There may have been a player who did not send a bouquet of flowers to his team and management as he was leaving, but I can't remember one. So let's discount the usual babble that occures. A couple of points that jumped out at me.

 

Boras:

"We told the Sox that when the time comes that Joe has returned to health, and returned to performing at his normal levels of excellence, that we would certainly want to talk to them about a contract.

 

Seems fair to everyone and would explain not signing him earlier.

 

Boras:

"I said that I couldn't negotiate while a player was injured, when I know he's not going to be injured next year. I said the Sox can't pay him while he's injured as if he weren't injured, so it would have to be at a discount.

 

Hey Boras, remember this guy? IIRC he couldn't run when you negotiated with the Tigers. Brilliant work btw, everyone is looking smart now. But this confirms what we all suspected, you were not certain he could play after surgery.

[Disco72]

The Sox will need Joe Crede and Josh Fields at some point this season. Hopefully it won't happen, but someone is going to end up on a 15 day DL (at least). It could be Joe, it could be someone else. I'm quite pleased to know we have a guy who should be able to hit ML pitching and not be overmatched if and when he is needed. Teams that want to compete all season need to have guys that can step in and play. This whole debate over who is "right" and who is "wrong" just does not make sense on so many levels.

[SoxWS05]

Great thread (title at least) and I'm proud to see so many of you eat crow for your harsh words against Crede this off season. As a proud member of "Crede's crew" I'm happy for him (to say the least), I think the Sox should start shopping a Fields/Anderson combo for a Harden/Lincecum type pitcher and get a deal done with the south side's favorite timely hitter.