The OFFICIAL "I was wrong about Joe Crede" thread

[jackie hayes]

Well, Lincecum has been mentioned, Harden has been mentioned.

 

It's really a case of how the season develops though. You have to see who is in contention, who is not in contention...

 

Taking a quick look though, some teams that may need a 3b now or in the future include: Anaheim, Baltimore, Cleveland, Minnesota, Oakland, Seattle, Texas, Toronto, Atlanta, Florida, Houston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and St. Louis.

The only offseason rumor involving Lincecum (that I know of) was Rios-for-Lincecum. That's taking into account the concerns about Lincecum's durability -- if he makes it strong through to the deadline (which is the only way the Sox would want him), his value only increases. I don't think the Sox have enough.

 

And no matter what happens with Crede this year, it won't mean that he's been proven healthy. The injury he had tends to recur. Signing him is a huge risk no matter how he produces.

[iamshack]

The only offseason rumor involving Lincecum (that I know of) was Rios-for-Lincecum. That's taking into account the concerns about Lincecum's durability -- if he makes it strong through to the deadline (which is the only way the Sox would want him), his value only increases. I don't think the Sox have enough.

 

And no matter what happens with Crede this year, it won't mean that he's been proven healthy. The injury he had tends to recur. Signing him is a huge risk no matter how he produces.

 

I'm not sure about that. From everything I've read, the surgery should pretty much take care of the back pain. And I'm not exactly certain who it is that has had this injury that you are comparing Joe to.

[SoxWS05]

Wow, looks like Joe Crede might be back to hitting his 2006 numbers (or maybe even better). I know it's only been 7 games but he is looking like the new and improved Joe Crede. I can't believe some people wanted to trade him for a bag of peanuts about two weeks ago, looks like those people are really eating crow now.

I hope KW doesn't trade him now, the offense is clicking, the clubhouse seems to have a great atmosphere, he should stand pat until a weakness arrives that he may need to fill with Crede (or Fields) trade value.

 

 

[AbeFroman]

I plead Guilty...

 

I need to visit white sox confessional... Everybody I've ripped as been outstanding

[WCSox]

Well, Lincecum has been mentioned, Harden has been mentioned.

 

It's really a case of how the season develops though. You have to see who is in contention, who is not in contention...

 

Taking a quick look though, some teams that may need a 3b now or in the future include: Anaheim, Baltimore, Cleveland, Minnesota, Oakland, Seattle, Texas, Toronto, Atlanta, Florida, Houston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and St. Louis.

 

Despite Sabean being a moron, I doubt that he'd deal Lincecum for Fields. And while I'm sure that Beane would love to deal Harden for a player who isn't made of glass, I wouldn't want to give up my future 3B for him (unless Crede has inked an extension).

 

[iamshack]

Despite Sabean being a moron, I doubt that he'd deal Lincecum for Fields. And while I'm sure that Beane would love to deal Harden for a player who isn't made of glass, I wouldn't want to give up my future 3B for him (unless Crede has inked an extension).

 

I agree. But that doesn't mean they might not take back Fields and a pitcher for Lincecum, such as Floyd, should he put up a decent first half.

 

All in all, I tend to agree that getting a young stud starter for a package of Fields is probably out of our reach...but it's fun to speculate.

[NorthSideSox72]

That will be the end of any crappy posts in here directed at other posters. Any more and the thread will be closed. If you have issues with our disciplinary measures, please feel free to PM me or another Mod or Admin. That is all.

 

[Lemon_44]

i think we trade him for Noah Lowery

[jackie hayes]

I'm not sure about that. From everything I've read, the surgery should pretty much take care of the back pain. And I'm not exactly certain who it is that has had this injury that you are comparing Joe to.

I had a discussion with ptatc (who knows more about player injuries than anyone else on this site) a little while back about the surgery, and the basics are that Crede can delay the recurrence by strengthening his back, staying on a good regimen. But there are no guarantees that he'll stay healthy for X years, and it will eventually come back.

 

The one study I found that dealt with athletes looked at college athletes who'd had the same procedure (lumbar discectomy), average age around 20. 9 out of 10 who had single-level discectomy continued to compete through the end of college. Only 3 athletes had a double-level discectomy (which is what Joe had), and all 3 stopped competing before they finished college (because of "continued symptoms"). (Abstract of the study here.)

 

It doesn't mean Crede can't be good this year, but no, he's not good as new.

[lostfan]

Basically, they didn't make any permanent structural fixes to Joe's back, they just reset the "pain meter" to zero. Am I about right? That's the way I understood it.

[jackie hayes]

Basically, they didn't make any permanent structural fixes to Joe's back, they just reset the "pain meter" to zero. Am I about right? That's the way I understood it.

It's not a "permanent structural fix", but you'd have to ask ptatc about the details. If I answered that, I'd just be reciting something from WebMD.

[iamshack]

It's not a "permanent structural fix", but you'd have to ask ptatc about the details. If I answered that, I'd just be reciting something from WebMD.

 

But what you're saying then is that even a deal on the shorter side, perhaps three or four years, would be a huge risk?

[jackie hayes]

But what you're saying then is that even a deal on the shorter side, perhaps three or four years, would be a huge risk?

I don't know the exact odds, but consider that this is the first year after the surgery. A four-year deal would mean the last year would be five years removed from the surgery. None of the college athletes finished their college careers, so they were all done before five years, max. (That would be if they got the surgery before they even got to college -- that doesn't seem common, since the average age of the athletes was over 20 when they got the procedure.) Those don't sound like good odds to me.

[iamshack]

I don't know the exact odds, but consider that this is the first year after the surgery. A four-year deal would mean the last year would be five years removed from the surgery. None of the college athletes finished their college careers, so they were all done before five years, max. (That would be if they got the surgery before they even got to college -- that doesn't seem common, since the average age of the athletes was over 20 when they got the procedure.) Those don't sound like good odds to me.

 

That's unfortunate...I wasn't aware that he was almost guaranteed to suffer the same pain again....

[Dick Allen]

I had a discussion with ptatc (who knows more about player injuries than anyone else on this site) a little while back about the surgery, and the basics are that Crede can delay the recurrence by strengthening his back, staying on a good regimen. But there are no guarantees that he'll stay healthy for X years, and it will eventually come back.

 

The one study I found that dealt with athletes looked at college athletes who'd had the same procedure (lumbar discectomy), average age around 20. 9 out of 10 who had single-level discectomy continued to compete through the end of college. Only 3 athletes had a double-level discectomy (which is what Joe had), and all 3 stopped competing before they finished college (because of "continued symptoms"). (Abstract of the study here.)

 

It doesn't mean Crede can't be good this year, but no, he's not good as new.

Sandy Alomar Jr. had the exact same surgery Crede had when he played for Cleveland. I think he had the surgery in 1998 or 1999, and he played for a while after that with no back problems.

[WCSox]

Sandy Alomar Jr. had the exact same surgery Crede had when he played for Cleveland. I think he had the surgery in 1998 or 1999, and he played for a while after that with no back problems.

 

And I imagine that a catcher would be more susceptible to back problems than most other position-players. Interesting.

 

[lostfan]

If it was a guarantee that Joe's back wouldn't be a problem in the future (like, say, the way a broken leg or a torn ACL heals) and of course if he wasn't a Boras client I would have no qualms about bringing Joe back. But that's not the case.

[Dick Allen]

If it was a guarantee that Joe's back wouldn't be a problem in the future (like, say, the way a broken leg or a torn ACL heals) and of course if he wasn't a Boras client I would have no qualms about bringing Joe back. But that's not the case.

Nothing is guaranteed,especially with backs. I just looked into it a little further though, and Alomar Jr. had his back surgery in 1993, which means he played post surgery for 14 years, including 3 or 4 stints with the White Sox, and his back was never an issue, although he had so many other injuries that maybe it helped his back from not blowing up.

[YASNY]

Nothing is guaranteed,especially with backs. I just looked into it a little further though, and Alomar Jr. had his back surgery in 1993, which means he played post surgery for 14 years, including 3 or 4 stints with the White Sox, and his back was never an issue, although he had so many other injuries that maybe it helped his back from not blowing up.

 

I've been wanting to say this for a long time .... I HATE YOUR AVATAR!

 

 

Shew! .... I feel better now.

[iamshack]

If it was a guarantee that Joe's back wouldn't be a problem in the future (like, say, the way a broken leg or a torn ACL heals) and of course if he wasn't a Boras client I would have no qualms about bringing Joe back. But that's not the case.

 

Not to sound like a broken record, but I firmly believe that Joe would put Boras in his place should he get a fair offer from the White Sox.

[Balta1701]

Not to sound like a broken record, but I firmly believe that Joe would put Boras in his place should he get a fair offer from the White Sox.

The White Sox can't even make an offer. They're prohibited by union rules from approaching Joe without going through Boras, they've approached Boras and tried to make an offer and were rebuffed. What else can they do?

[Texsox]

Boras is also bound to present any and all offers to Crede. I am assuming he his gone, and if he is back, I will reserve judgement based on what happened to have him back.

[Dick Allen]

I don't think the White Sox have any intention to sign Crede unless Fields completely busts in Charlotte. They may have approached him last year when he was hurt hoping for a bargain and perhaps intending to use Fields in a trade for M. Cabrera or something like that, but if Crede has a good year, the Sox will not want to pay him the market rate if they still feel Fields is going to be good. So this is a one year thing. They couldn't get anything of value for him in a trade, but they could get a nice year out of him for $5.1 million, which would be better than a couple of non prospects IMO.

Edited April 10, 2008 by Dick Allen

[soxfan3530]

make it 8 games!

[iamshack]

The White Sox can't even make an offer. They're prohibited by union rules from approaching Joe without going through Boras, they've approached Boras and tried to make an offer and were rebuffed. What else can they do?

 

I'm not saying they would circumvent Boras. I'm saying if they made Joe an offer along the lines of 4/44 or something, he may take it even though Boras would advise against it.