Stadium Observations

[Texsox]

If you have a rebuttal, I would love to hear it.

 

Not really a rebuttal, but concession and other prices that go through a third party may or may not have that dramatic an effect on the teams payroll. I'm assuming, and correct me if I'm wrong, that those are to a third party vendor and not controlled by the team. So It seems complaints about some items may be more valid then say ticket prices.

 

But your main point is spot on and perfect. I'm still kind of amazed that two of the most expensive lineups in baseball are in the AL Central. I'll accept a Christmas card from JR as well. I think the ownership group, under his watch, have done a masterful job with the team. They took on the opportunity to sell Pepsi in Atlanta, or PCs in Cupertino, and thrived.

[Hatchetman]

I think they should increase prices more so they can increase the payroll more.

[mreye]

My $0.02:

 

The state of Illinois owns the building, so bringing up the 2-3% inflation is useless. Government spending or costs of government services are never curbed by inflation.

 

 

 

Also, I thought it worked like this:

 

The Sox work out a contract with the concessions company (CC). The CC pays the Sox and any profit / loss is taken by the CC. The CC is paying the Sox for the oppurtunity to provide the services. Attendence has gone up recently. Therefore, the price of that contract has gone up, and in order for the CC to make their money back they must charge more for concessions.

 

So, in a roundabout way, yes, the Sox are the reason behind the hike in concessions prices, but indirectly.

 

I could be completely wrong, but I believe that's how it works.

[FLsouthsider]

If you have a rebuttal, I would love to hear it.

 

Rebuttal to what? Your willingness to pay $8 for a hot dog?

 

Baseball is a business and the team is maximizing revenues. Just not out of my wallet. I don't even live in Chicago anymore, so I'm not exactly the club's target market.

 

However, pardon me if I think it's a long-term mistake to squeeze families and casual fans, turn them upside down and shake every last nickel out of their pockets before they leave the stadium.

[southsider2k5]

Rebuttal to what? Your willingness to pay $8 for a hot dog?

 

Baseball is a business and the team is maximizing revenues. Just not out of my wallet. I don't even live in Chicago anymore, so I'm not exactly the club's target market.

 

However, pardon me if I think it's a long-term mistake to squeeze families and casual fans, turn them upside down and shake every last nickel out of their pockets before they leave the stadium.

 

I didn't say I was happy about it, there you read into what I said too far. The complaint for decades was that the owners were getting rich off of the Sox. This has never been true. There was also the complaint that our payroll was too low for being in the 3rd largest city in the US. Now we have the 5th largest payroll in all of MLB, including higher than that crosstown team who happened to draw about 1 million more fans and made the playoffs last year.

 

Let me ask you flat out, would you rather have higher prices and a higher payroll, or lower prices and a lower payroll? Because those are your choices when it comes to White Sox baseball.

[Texsox]

Rebuttal to what? Your willingness to pay $8 for a hot dog?

 

Baseball is a business and the team is maximizing revenues. Just not out of my wallet. I don't even live in Chicago anymore, so I'm not exactly the club's target market.

 

However, pardon me if I think it's a long-term mistake to squeeze families and casual fans, turn them upside down and shake every last nickel out of their pockets before they leave the stadium.

 

That certainly is a fair comment. But it costs more to stay at a hotel in Chicago than Streamwood. The beers in the bar are more expensive and so is the cab ride. While everyone on the plane arrives at the same time, the folks in first class pay a little more. The team is now first class, and charges accordingly. So like that same cold Sam Adams costs $2 at your local megamart, drink it at the InterContinental downtown and it will set you back $12.

 

I can spend less than $20 and have a great time at my local Independent League game. The best seats, couple three beers, a couple hot dogs, maybe some peanuts. But the quality of play is not the same. Hell, Bevington was managing in this league a couple years ago.

[Y2HH]

Let's not forget that Mr. Daley keeps raising he taxes on everything from bottled water to beer in Chicago year after year, yet we still have to wait 4-6 more weeks to get the potholes fixed on major roadways (like LSD for instance).

 

So the rising costs of things like beer can also be attributed -- in part -- to taxes, inflation, etc...

 

That said, of course the owners want a profit, otherwise they shouldn't be running a business.

[Texsox]

Energy prices are also a factor.

[FLsouthsider]

I didn't say I was happy about it, there you read into what I said too far. The complaint for decades was that the owners were getting rich off of the Sox. This has never been true. There was also the complaint that our payroll was too low for being in the 3rd largest city in the US. Now we have the 5th largest payroll in all of MLB, including higher than that crosstown team who happened to draw about 1 million more fans and made the playoffs last year.

 

Let me ask you flat out, would you rather have higher prices and a higher payroll, or lower prices and a lower payroll? Because those are your choices when it comes to White Sox baseball.

 

Whether you're happy about it or not, you're still complicit.

 

As for payroll vs. prices, I don't really care what the payroll is so long as the team is competitive. And teams need not have the highest payroll to compete. The Sox's payroll has gone about 50 percent since 2005 and the team has gotten worse. Of course I want the team to compete and win, but I'm not shelling out $44 for an Italian beef sandwich or my monthly car payment to park.

 

And as far as ownership getting rich off the team, Bill Veeck once said that you don't make money operating a baseball team, you make money selling your baseball team. JR and his ownership group bought the Sox for $20 million. I'm guessing the club is probably worth $350-400 million today. I'd say that's getting rich off the Sox. I'm not begrudging JR for making a good investment, good for him. But let's not kid ourselves.

[Y2HH]

Energy prices are also a factor.

 

Also true, with Diesel being well above 4$ per gallon, the delivery trucks for food/beverages will raise their freight costs in order to offset the rising cost of fuel.

[FLsouthsider]

Also true, with Diesel being well above 4$ per gallon, the delivery trucks for food/beverages will raise their freight costs in order to offset the rising cost of fuel.

 

Which is why beer prices are up 40 percent at the grocery store.

[mreye]

Which is why beer prices are up 40 percent at the grocery store.

 

Grocery stores can offset that with other products. But, yes, a keg of beer at my local liquor store is higher than it's ever been. Aluminum is at an all-time high. That adds to that too, though.

 

[Harry Chappas]

However, pardon me if I think it's a long-term mistake to squeeze families and casual fans, turn them upside down and shake every last nickel out of their pockets before they leave the stadium.

 

If you have ever gone anywhere as a family, the zoo, movies, monster truck racing, church, etc. The price you pay is outrageous.

 

Family of Four

 

Monster Truck Racing total spent $150 (tickets $80, parking $15, food for four $55)

Matinee Movies $60 (tickets $32, food $28) if you thought ballpark food was expensive, the movies cost more and it is terrible

Zoo ($110 annual membership, food same as the ballpark, parking is like $8)

 

As for beer prices, I got no real problem with it and I drink anywhere from 0 to 7 a game.

 

The JR cheap thing is so overblown it is sickening.

 

[Texsox]

Which is why beer prices are up 40 percent at the grocery store.

 

Your points are well founded, but just pushed a little too far. A grocery store operates year round and their infrastructure costs are spread out over that year and over a wider and deeper volume of products. If your local grocer was only open 80 times per year, you would see a much different pricing structure. At a grocer, some items are "loss leaders" to lead people into the stores, and some are the profit items once you arrive.

 

And now compare the price of that beer at the grocery store and have someone buy it, deliver it to your home, serve it to you, and clean up after you. Factor in the cost of your home, electric, gas, insurance, and see what that grocery store beer really costs.

 

We have strayed far from your original, and IMHO valid statement, baseball should be concerned about turning away fans at the gate bnecause of economics. There is a sweet spot between selling 1 @ $20 to one customer and selling 20 @ $1 to 20 customers. Your costs go up with more transactions for the same gross. So that one sale looks tempting, but when that narrow customer base leaves, you are in real trouble.

[mumu]

Did they change the smoking policies at the cell? It used to be that you could smoke out on any of the ramps, but before the game started Monday, I heard them announce you could *only* smoke at Gate 5. My seats happened to be right at Gate 5, so I would've smoked out that gate anyway, but I'm curious what the situation was at the other gates/ramps. Smoking intolerance is just getting crazy!

Edited April 9, 2008 by mu mu

[NorthSideSox72]

Did they change the smoking policies at the cell? It used to be that you could smoke out on any of the ramps, but before the game started Monday, I heard them announce you could *only* smoke at Gate 5. My seats happened to be right at Gate 5, so I would've smoked out that gate anyway, but I'm curious what the situation was at the other gates/ramps. Smoking intolerance is just getting crazy!

It did indeed change - you now cannot smoke anywhere in The Cell except for outside by Gate 5.

 

And I agree its a little insane. I can fully understand not allowing smoking in the seats, the ailses, and the concourse areas - especially with kids around. No need for the majority of us to breathe other peoples' smoke. But I thought the ramps was a reasonable compromise.

 

[Controlled Chaos]

There were a bunch of Marines in the seats right in front of us. I think they were the guys that did the flag. We offered to buy them a couple beers, but they were all polite and said no thank you. I saw a bunch of them drinking, so me and a couple of buddies just grabbed a beer peep and said give us 60 bucks worth of beer. And we started passing them down to those guys...and said take em if ya want em. For some reason 4.75 was stuck in my head...so I thought they'd get about 12 beers. Only 9 came though...then I saw the $6.50 button. Yikes!! Oh well I do most of my drinking before the game...I usually only have 1 or 2 at the park.

 

It is high, but I think Bear games are like that now too. In fact, I think they're 7 bucks. Someone can correct me on that if I'm wrong....I only went to one game last year.

 

 

[Disco72]

I think the bigger argument is that the economics of the game are pushing it out of the price range of the average fan. In order to pay multi-million dollar athletes, prices all over the stadium have to go up from tickets to beer.

 

Of course, the interesting rebuttal to my argument above is that 'non-profit' entertainment like zoos and aquariums are also following similar price structures. Is it a follow the leader strategy or perhaps the standard pricing structure of the companies operating the concessions?

[FLsouthsider]

Your points are well founded, but just pushed a little too far. A grocery store operates year round and their infrastructure costs are spread out over that year and over a wider and deeper volume of products. If your local grocer was only open 80 times per year, you would see a much different pricing structure. At a grocer, some items are "loss leaders" to lead people into the stores, and some are the profit items once you arrive.

 

And now compare the price of that beer at the grocery store and have someone buy it, deliver it to your home, serve it to you, and clean up after you. Factor in the cost of your home, electric, gas, insurance, and see what that grocery store beer really costs.

 

We have strayed far from your original, and IMHO valid statement, baseball should be concerned about turning away fans at the gate bnecause of economics. There is a sweet spot between selling 1 @ $20 to one customer and selling 20 @ $1 to 20 customers. Your costs go up with more transactions for the same gross. So that one sale looks tempting, but when that narrow customer base leaves, you are in real trouble.

 

Yes, but, not insignificantly, grocery stores also operate at much, much smaller profit margins. And grocery stores don't charge you a $20 cover charge, either.

 

Sorry for the threadjack.

 

Economically, everything is higher today for baseball than it's ever been... on the revenue and costs side. MLB is on pace to out-earn the NFL within the next five years. Up to this point, fans (at least in the aggregate) don't seem to respond to higher costs associated with going to games, evidenced by the record revenues and attendance figures. I love baseball and love the Sox, so I hope it's sustainable. I just wonder if it is, in regards to the long-term health and growth of the game. Then again, this argument has been trotted out there for years and things are still sunny.

 

[tonyho7476]

It did indeed change - you now cannot smoke anywhere in The Cell except for outside by Gate 5.

 

And I agree its a little insane. I can fully understand not allowing smoking in the seats, the ailses, and the concourse areas - especially with kids around. No need for the majority of us to breathe other peoples' smoke. But I thought the ramps was a reasonable compromise.

 

I smoked by gate 5...but lots of people were just walking a little down the ramps and smoking. I am a smoker, and understand people not wanting to be around it at a restaurant, or whatever. But on a ramp at a game? At a bar? Jesus christ. I just won't smoke at the game...or have like 1. I'll survive.

[joeynach]

What do they need to acknowledge? The Sox have the 5th highest payroll in major league baseball. It has gone up very close to 50% since 2005. For the one Chicago franchise that puts all of its profits back on to the field, that means they need to get the money from somewhere... Yes winning has its price. For all of the people who were pissed when we had a middle of the pack payroll, this is the price you pay the piper. We could go back to having cheap concessions, cheap parking, and a half empty stadium, but that would also require the team to go back to a $75 million payroll. There is cost for everything. You want to run with the big dogs, it will cost you.

 

All i was saying is that there seems to be a very outspoken and understood link between ticket sales/ticket prices and payroll, which everyone seems to understand. I just haven't encountered the same hardcore link between concessions and parking to payroll as I have to ticket sales/prices. Economics tells us its there, but its just not as established among the media, fans, organizational releases, etc. And BTW I would much rather have $20 Parking and $6.50 beers with a $115 Mil payroll than $12 parking $4.75 Beer and a $70 Mil payroll, hand down.