#42 ~ Should the whole team wear it Tuesday?

[Texsox]

I guess the point I was trying to make is I don't understand why we are comparing Abraham Lincoln to Jackie Robinson. There isn't really any basis on which the two should be compared other than, maybe, their connections to Black history.

 

Post #29 by Y2HH introduced Lincoln to the discussion. You would have to jump back and connect the dots. I believe, again going even further back, to goes to the heart of MaxPower mentioning JR Day celebrates our ignorance. So a very good parallel would be to Lincoln. Are we celebrating the ignorance of the time or the enlightenment they helped to inspire?

[BobDylan]

frankly, i can't believe anyone is really arguing that they shouldn't wear a patch or the number. Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier was arguably the biggest event/symbol of social change and civil rights in this country's history. There is absolutely a need to remember it. Does having JR day celebrate and remember it? Of course. Does wearing his number further increase awareness, remembrance, and celebration? I think it sure does. How is that a bad thing? What is the downside of wearing it? I can understand the arguements that everyone wearing it may somehow "diminish" the meaning of it (which I don't buy into, but at least i can understand) but your stance i just dont get. Your arguement is basically saying, we do enough by tipping our cap at the start of the game, but I ask you this, is it such a big deal for everyone to wear 42? You have to understand the cultural significance this event has, and I suppose I just don't get why someone would want to only "tip their cap," when wearing the number celebrates the event, honors Jackie, and may increase awareness of it, and is extremely easy to do. Whats the downside to iit???? Heaven forbid that you should have to watch a game where everyone is wearing a patch for 3 hours! God they are really throwing that in your face! I hate it when great moments in history that represent triumph over struggle and ignorance positively influence everyone in the country!

 

I believe his number is hanging in every stadium around the park already. Sometimes it can be overkill to put more frosting on the cake. I'm not saying my stance is to simply tip your cap, as has been said, but I don't think the day has to be a suck fest. I think the way it is now -- let people choose if they want to wear the number -- is about best it can get. The only thing that puts a dark light on things like this, when players (Hunter) brings race into who wears it and who doesn't. It's a day of celebration. Not a reminder of USA's history.

[max power]

For a second I thought this was my Grandma posting. I guess it was the reference to "the colored guys" that mislead me.

 

But I do disagree with this position. Nobody is celebrating past ignorance by recognizing Robinson's contribution and what he had to endure prfessionally and privately as the first black player on the majors. Quite the opposite, we are celebrating a ray of hope cutting through a cloud of national ignorance.

 

I'm not taking away from Jackie Robinson's purely athletic career accomplishments by noting the fact that what he endured and what he helped bring about is far and away the more difficult, lasting and important accomplishment. Cooperstown is chock-full of amazing ballplayers, but only one did what Jackie Robinson did.

That's what they called them, not my words. You didn't really disagree with my position in your post. My post was about how it divides people.

Edited April 9, 2008 by max power

[max power]

"They" want to be recognized? We celebrate Lincoln's Birthday, and I see some strong parallels. In a cloud of ignorance there was someone who stood up and made a difference. I think there should be more of an awareness of the people like Branch Ricky and Leo Durocher who made it possible, but it is not in any way a crutch to honor the man who stood up and took all the hatred and abuse the narrow minded bigots to toss out and kept playing. Perhaps if there were no more abusers, your point would seem more valid, but the more I read your post, the more I realize there is still a long way to go.

When you celebrate lincoln you celebrate him because he was a good president, not because he was a good white president. Its not the same.

[Hawkfan]

these options suck

[NorthSideSox72]

these options suck

Thanks for your insightful retort. Very classy.

 

[bschmaranz]

Wait a minute, Jackie Robinson was the first African American to play in the bigs? I thought it was James Earl Jones character from "The Sandlot"???

[The Critic]

the more people that wear it, the more likely some kid will ask his dad why everyone is wearing 42, and he will learn and hopefully read about it, not that he probably doesnt know about it anyways...but i think the more people that wear it, the greater the awareness, the better...

 

if only 1 or two people wear it, it can go unnoticed real easily to those not paying attention to it

This is how I look at it, too.

[FlaSoxxJim]

That's what they called them, not my words. You didn't really disagree with my position in your post. My post was about how it divides people.

 

But I did. You suggested that wearing #42 was a celebration of ignorance and I countered that it was celebrating someone breaking through that ignorance. There is a difference.

Edited April 10, 2008 by FlaSoxxJim

[Soxfest]

It is retired leave it that way!

[NorthSideSox72]

It is retired leave it that way!

This post confuses me. Did someone say anything about unretiring it?

 

[southsider2k5]

After reading this thread and shaking my head many different times, I just want to add the following historical quote.

 

"Those who do not learn from their history are doomed to repeat it."

[FlaSoxxJim]

After reading this thread and shaking my head many different times, I just want to add the following historical quote.

 

"Those who do not learn their history are doomed to repeat it."

 

It's true. I knew a kid who had to repeat it three times.

 

 

[klaus kinski]

Just keep alluding to different races, and there will always be differences.

[Texsox]

When you celebrate lincoln you celebrate him because he was a good president, not because he was a good white president. Its not the same.

 

His defining legacy was his role in racial issues, while not the same, definitely on point.

[YASNY]

I remember several years ago, there was some obscure player of African desent .... seems to me his name was Frank Thomas or something like that .... was asked about Jackie Robinson. He didn't know who the man was! Now you have Mike Ditka leading a charge to take care of NFL veterans who need help, and he has to bang his head against a wall to get anyone to listen. The NBA players don't have a clue about the pioneers that blazed the trails so today's players can enjoy their chosen profession. Along with Larry Doby, there is another player that todays MLB players should hold in reverence, and I doubt very few would know who he was. Curt Flood.

 

What this Jackie Robinson celebration accomplishes is taking one day out of the year to remember the man, and those like that were the true trailblazers. Some get forgotten. Let's not forget them all because someone thinks it's stupid or doesn't want it thrown in his face for a whole fours out of a year.

[Texsox]

^^^ Great Post YAS ^^^

 

I'm not certain if the fans would cheer Curt Flood, but the players and agents should.

[YASNY]

^^^ Great Post YAS ^^^

 

I'm not certain if the fans would cheer Curt Flood, but the players and agents should.

 

Well, there's always Denny McLain.

[WCSox]

When you celebrate lincoln you celebrate him because he was a good president, not because he was a good white president. Its not the same.

 

Lincoln's birthday is "celebrated"? That's news to me. Sadly, I'm still going to work on Washington's birthday as well.

 

I'm all for everybody wearing #42 on their jerseys or on a patch or whatever to honor Robinson. He was a phenomenal human being who fought through bigotry and hatred in about as classy a way as humanly possible. And he deserves to be honored not just for changing the game with his courage, but for being a heck of a player as well.

 

But if we're going to honor people for having incredible and positive impact on the game, I think it's only fair that MLB honors Babe Ruth in the same way. Baseball arguably never would have emerged from the ashes of the organized crime scandals of the early 1900s to become the "National Pastime" without him.

Edited April 10, 2008 by WCSox

[Texsox]

As I was reading your post, I'm wondering if perhaps we are in a period of some people forgetting and needing to remember? Many of the people involved are dead, and many more will be over the next few years. I could see at some point in the future where Robinson is relegated to a smaller remembrance each year. This is about a human need, and just like 9/11 Vigils have gotten smaller and smaller, so too are ones to people like Ruth. Reading some of the responses, I believe some people think we are already there.

 

Just an incomplete thought and another log on the fire . . .

[BigSqwert]

But if we're going to honor people for having incredible and positive impact on the game, I think it's only fair that MLB honors Babe Ruth in the same way. Baseball arguably never would have emerged from the ashes of the organized crime scandals of the early 1900s to become the "National Pastime" without him.

I tend to agree with you but I also think Jackie Robinson had an impact on the nation as a whole, even for those not concerned with the game. It was a watershed moment in our history whereas Ruth's elevation of the game of baseball was just that...a baseball-related phenomena.

[southsider2k5]

As I was reading your post, I'm wondering if perhaps we are in a period of some people forgetting and needing to remember? Many of the people involved are dead, and many more will be over the next few years. I could see at some point in the future where Robinson is relegated to a smaller remembrance each year. This is about a human need, and just like 9/11 Vigils have gotten smaller and smaller, so too are ones to people like Ruth. Reading some of the responses, I believe some people think we are already there.

 

Just an incomplete thought and another log on the fire . . .

 

How many people hold rememberences on Pearl Harbor Day? We as a country do ourselves such a disservice by not understanding where we came from, and avoiding those same pitfalls.

[Melissa1334]

haha or Mo Vaughan's #42

 

I don't mind if everyone wears it. I don't think it should be mandatory to players for wear it but if they want to it's ok. People like Torii Hunter last year pissed me off when he was mad that white guys or a lot of guys were wearing it because they didn't understand what he went through. I don't think Hunter went through what Robinson went through so I didn't understand where he was coming from. It's ok for everyone to wear the number for a day. I think it's a great honor for Robinson, and his number is already retired by every major league team, which is one of the greatest honors anyone can have.

[WCSox]

As I was reading your post, I'm wondering if perhaps we are in a period of some people forgetting and needing to remember? Many of the people involved are dead, and many more will be over the next few years. I could see at some point in the future where Robinson is relegated to a smaller remembrance each year. This is about a human need, and just like 9/11 Vigils have gotten smaller and smaller, so too are ones to people like Ruth. Reading some of the responses, I believe some people think we are already there.

 

Just an incomplete thought and another log on the fire . . .

 

And speaking of African-American athletes who fought through excessive racism, how about Jesse Owens performing in front of Hitler and then getting screwed over by his own country...

 

"Hitler didn't snub me—it was FDR who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram.”

 

Jesse Owens was never invited to the White House nor bestowed any honors by Presidents Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR) or Harry S. Truman during their terms.

 

After the games had finished, Owens was invited, along with the rest of the team, to compete in Sweden. However he decided to capitalise on his success by returning to the United States to take up some of the lucrative commercial offers he was receiving. American athletic officials were furious and withdrew his amateur status, ending his career immediately. Owens was livid: "A fellow desires something for himself," he said.

 

With no sporting appearances to bolster his profile, the lucrative offers never quite materialised. Instead he was forced to try to make a living as a sports promoter, essentially an entertainer. He would give local sprinters a ten or twenty yard start and beat them in the 100 yd (91 m) dash. He also challenged and defeated racehorses although as he revealed later, the trick was to race a high-strung thoroughbred horse that would be frightened by the starter's shotgun and give him a bad jump.

 

He soon found himself running a dry-cleaning business and then even working as a gas station attendant. He eventually filed for bankruptcy but, even then, his problems were not over and in 1966 he was successfully prosecuted for tax evasion. At rock bottom, the rehabilitation began and he started work as a U.S. 'goodwill ambassador'.

 

[WCSox]

I tend to agree with you but I also think Jackie Robinson had an impact on the nation as a whole, even for those not concerned with the game. It was a watershed moment in our history whereas Ruth's elevation of the game of baseball was just that...a baseball-related phenomena.

 

No, it wasn't. Babe Ruth was a larger-than-life, inspirational figure who essentially DEFINED America back then. During WWII, the Japanese would yell, "F**k Babe Ruth!" at our troops.

 

How many people hold rememberences on Pearl Harbor Day? We as a country do ourselves such a disservice by not understanding where we came from, and avoiding those same pitfalls.

 

Because we're a bunch of idiots who care more about watching American Idol than voting in our elections.