#42 ~ Should the whole team wear it Tuesday?

[Texsox]

I think its stupid and based on the past, which shouldn't be celebrated for being ignorant. Instead some races, sexual preferences, and other minorities use crap like this as a crutch. They want to be recognized as different and forever will be until they get a notion to change. I'd prefer them to just recognize JR as one of baseball's greats not the first one of the colored guys to cross over. That's my two cents.

 

If the celebration was for being ignorant, they would be wearing the numbers of the players who refused to take the field, spat on him, and called him n***** from their dugout. They would be wearing St. Louis Cardinal uniforms in remembrance of a team that was very close to not playing and forfeiting if he was allowed to play.

 

BTW, a little link to Chicago baseball, albeit the north side. The manager of that Dodger team, and later the manager for the Cubs, it was Leo Durocher of "nice guys finish last" fame who took a stand and told the players to stfu and play. And being a good capitalistic American, pointed out to his players that Robinson would help them all make money.

 

So no, we're not celebrating the ignorant, we're celebrating the courage to walk out on the field despite death threats. We're celebrating while playing under so much pressure he earned the first ever Rookie of the Year award.

 

"They" want to be recognized? We celebrate Lincoln's Birthday, and I see some strong parallels. In a cloud of ignorance there was someone who stood up and made a difference. I think there should be more of an awareness of the people like Branch Ricky and Leo Durocher who made it possible, but it is not in any way a crutch to honor the man who stood up and took all the hatred and abuse the narrow minded bigots to toss out and kept playing. Perhaps if there were no more abusers, your point would seem more valid, but the more I read your post, the more I realize there is still a long way to go.

[Y2HH]

I have no problem celebrating JR, Ruth, Marris, or even Cobb for their accomplishments in the game of baseball. But they should be celebrated with a small opening tip of the cap ceremony and a dedication of the game to them, and thats it. Wearing their numbers or patches or otherwise always feels cheap and empty to me. The very fact they're out there playing this game to this day shows they are not forgotten. I simply don't feel that I need need it thrown in my face for 4+ consecutive hours on end while trying to enjoy a game in order for me to appreciate it and respect it for what it is.

[Texsox]

I have no problem celebrating JR, Ruth, Marris, or even Cobb for their accomplishments in the game of baseball. But they should be celebrated with a small opening tip of the cap ceremony and a dedication of the game to them, and thats it. Wearing their numbers or patches or otherwise always feels cheap and empty to me. The very fact they're out there playing this game to this day shows they are not forgotten. I simply don't feel that I need need it thrown in my face for 4+ consecutive hours on end while trying to enjoy a game in order for me to appreciate it and respect it for what it is.

 

What exactly do you feel is being "thrown in your face"?

[Y2HH]

If the celebration was for being ignorant, they would be wearing the numbers of the players who refused to take the field, spat on him, and called him n***** from their dugout. They would be wearing St. Louis Cardinal uniforms in remembrance of a team that was very close to not playing and forfeiting if he was allowed to play.

 

BTW, a little link to Chicago baseball, albeit the north side. The manager of that Dodger team, and later the manager for the Cubs, it was Leo Durocher of "nice guys finish last" fame who took a stand and told the players to stfu and play. And being a good capitalistic American, pointed out to his players that Robinson would help them all make money.

 

So no, we're not celebrating the ignorant, we're celebrating the courage to walk out on the field despite death threats. We're celebrating while playing under so much pressure he earned the first ever Rookie of the Year award.

 

"They" want to be recognized? We celebrate Lincoln's Birthday, and I see some strong parallels. In a cloud of ignorance there was someone who stood up and made a difference. I think there should be more of an awareness of the people like Branch Ricky and Leo Durocher who made it possible, but it is not in any way a crutch to honor the man who stood up and took all the hatred and abuse the narrow minded bigots to toss out and kept playing. Perhaps if there were no more abusers, your point would seem more valid, but the more I read your post, the more I realize there is still a long way to go.

 

And this is exactly what I mean, and I'll illustrate it with an example from your post. I have no issues celebrating Lincoln's Birthday, or JR day at the ballpark, etc...but with a respectful tip of the cap and rememberance at the start of the game, and nothing more should be necessary. There is no need to wear JR's number or a patch, just as there is no need for everyone to run around with Lincoln sytle top hats on all day, either.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Y2HH

[daa84]

And this is exactly what I mean, and I'll illustrate it with an example from your post. I have no issues celebrating Lincoln's Birthday, or JR day at the ballpark, etc...but with a respectful tip of the cap and rememberance at the start of the game, and nothing more should be necessary. There is no need to wear JR's number or a patch, just as there is no need for everyone to run around with Lincoln sytle top hats on all day, either.

frankly, i can't believe anyone is really arguing that they shouldn't wear a patch or the number. Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier was arguably the biggest event/symbol of social change and civil rights in this country's history. There is absolutely a need to remember it. Does having JR day celebrate and remember it? Of course. Does wearing his number further increase awareness, remembrance, and celebration? I think it sure does. How is that a bad thing? What is the downside of wearing it? I can understand the arguements that everyone wearing it may somehow "diminish" the meaning of it (which I don't buy into, but at least i can understand) but your stance i just dont get. Your arguement is basically saying, we do enough by tipping our cap at the start of the game, but I ask you this, is it such a big deal for everyone to wear 42? You have to understand the cultural significance this event has, and I suppose I just don't get why someone would want to only "tip their cap," when wearing the number celebrates the event, honors Jackie, and may increase awareness of it, and is extremely easy to do. Whats the downside to iit???? Heaven forbid that you should have to watch a game where everyone is wearing a patch for 3 hours! God they are really throwing that in your face! I hate it when great moments in history that represent triumph over struggle and ignorance positively influence everyone in the country!

Edited April 9, 2008 by daa84

[FlaSoxxJim]

And this is exactly what I mean, and I'll illustrate it with an example from your post. I have no issues celebrating Lincoln's Birthday, or JR day at the ballpark, etc...but with a respectful tip of the cap and rememberance at the start of the game, and nothing more should be necessary. There is no need to wear JR's number or a patch, just as there is no need for everyone to run around with Lincoln sytle top hats on all day, either.

 

But what is the harm if they do wear a number or a patch? I think that's very unobtrusive as far as gameplay is concerned and I think it's pretty classy.

[daa84]

But what is the harm if they do wear a number or a patch? I think that's very unobtrusive as far as gameplay is concerned and I think it's pretty classy.

well, that was said alot more clear and concise than my big post , and basically got the same point across...good work lol

[the People's Champ]

I say the American League teams should wear #14 in honor of Larry Doby, nobody ever mentions him, and he only had to deal with three months less of the BS that JR had to.

 

wheres the love

[Texsox]

And this is exactly what I mean, and I'll illustrate it with an example from your post. I have no issues celebrating Lincoln's Birthday, or JR day at the ballpark, etc...but with a respectful tip of the cap and rememberance at the start of the game, and nothing more should be necessary. There is no need to wear JR's number or a patch, just as there is no need for everyone to run around with Lincoln sytle top hats on all day, either.

 

Let's look at the tip of the hat scale and Lincoln's birthday.

 

Schools closed

Banks closed

Sales everywhere with giant advertisements on radio, tv, newspapers, billboards.

[Y2HH]

But what is the harm if they do wear a number or a patch? I think that's very unobtrusive as far as gameplay is concerned and I think it's pretty classy.

 

I didn't say there was any harm, nor is it obtrusive, I just feel it's unnecessary. These are things that should be remembered without the need of constant reminder is all I mean. A moment of silence for me is greater than 3 hours wearing a number.

 

For those who believe, no explaination is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation will do.

 

But like you said, no harm no foul. I can care less, either way. I *personally* do not need to be reminded to remember these people once a year, when we should be remembering their contributions *every* *single* *day*.

[daa84]

I say the American League teams should wear #14 in honor of Larry Doby, nobody ever mentions him, and he only had to deal with three months less of the BS that JR had to.

 

wheres the love

yeah, doby had to endure just about everything robinson did, and he had to do it without any fanfare

[Y2HH]

Let's look at the tip of the hat scale and Lincoln's birthday.

 

Schools closed

Banks closed

Sales everywhere with giant advertisements on radio, tv, newspapers, billboards.

 

Not sure about schools anymore, but nothing around here closes on Lincoln's Birthday, it's business as usual, and I live in Chicago.

[Y2HH]

yeah, doby had to endure just about everything robinson did, and he had to do it without any fanfare

 

Just because it's means less to you and the majority, doens't mean it means less to someone else.

[Texsox]

Not sure about schools anymore, but nothing around here closes on Lincoln's Birthday, it's business as usual, and I live in Chicago.

Not business as usual Giant Sales!

[the People's Champ]

Let's look at the tip of the hat scale and Lincoln's birthday.

 

Schools closed

Banks closed

Sales everywhere with giant advertisements on radio, tv, newspapers, billboards.

 

 

In perspective Lincoln was a US president who changed the whole country. JR was an athlete, that changed a GAME

[daa84]

Just because it's means less to you and the majority, doens't mean it means less to someone else.

in what way shape form or fashion did i suggest that it meant any less to me?

[Texsox]

In perspective Lincoln was a US president who changed the whole country. JR was an athlete, that changed a GAME

Great point, However, I think you underestimate what breaking that barrier did throughout society. Rosie Parks did more than change one bus trip.

[the People's Champ]

Great point, However, I think you underestimate what breaking that barrier did throughout society. Rosie Parks did more than change one bus trip.

 

Im not saying it didn't help, but to think JR single handedly changed white America's views toward African Americans is ridiculous. He was just one man in a list of Rosa Parks', MLKs, Malcolm Xs,......and so on, to do something special to HELP change the way blacks were and still are treated in this country.

[Y2HH]

in what way shape form or fashion did i suggest that it meant any less to me?

 

I think I took what you said about Doby as sarcasm.

[Texsox]

Im not saying it didn't help, but to think JR single handedly changed white America's views toward African Americans is ridiculous. He was just one man in a list of Rosa Parks', MLKs, Malcolm Xs,......and so on, to do something special to HELP change the way blacks were and still are treated in this country.

 

My point was in response to the comment he just changed a game. As you noted, we agree, he did help to change more than just a game.

 

A black playing was an excellent example on the biggest sports stage of the day. He was an agent of change for America's Game. He was, and still is, and excellent example of grace, and poise, under tremendous pressures. As a target, reasonable people saw how destructive the racial hatred was, and it helped to change opinions. It showed that blacks and whites could work and live together.

[daa84]

I think I took what you said about Doby as sarcasm.

oh haha it wasnt, i was serious

[daa84]

Im not saying it didn't help, but to think JR single handedly changed white America's views toward African Americans is ridiculous. He was just one man in a list of Rosa Parks', MLKs, Malcolm Xs,......and so on, to do something special to HELP change the way blacks were and still are treated in this country.

i agree that the actual event may not have changed as much as those others did...but i think its been a pretty long standing symbol of the social change in America

[the People's Champ]

My point was in response to the comment he just changed a game. As you noted, we agree, he did help to change more than just a game.

 

A black playing was an excellent example on the biggest sports stage of the day. He was an agent of change for America's Game. He was, and still is, and excellent example of grace, and poise, under tremendous pressures. As a target, reasonable people saw how destructive the racial hatred was, and it helped to change opinions. It showed that blacks and whites could work and live together.

 

 

I guess the point I was trying to make is I don't understand why we are comparing Abraham Lincoln to Jackie Robinson. There isn't really any basis on which the two should be compared other than, maybe, their connections to Black history.

[Y2HH]

oh haha it wasnt, i was serious

 

But yes, it's reasons like this why I find numbers and patches unnecessary. We often credit very few people while forgetting the *many* others who struggled just the same, be it in games, politics, etc. I feel it cheapens the 'whole' when we give credit one while giving absolutly no credit to another.

 

A simple moment of silence for *all* is better suited than remembering a single person, in my opinion. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with remembering a single person, I just feel the whole is greater than the sum of it's many parts, and that is lost in translation when we choose to remember one of the sum.

 

And if you didn't follow any of that...too bad.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Y2HH

[daa84]

But yes, it's reasons like this why I find numbers and patches unnecessary. We often credit very few people while forgetting the *many* others who struggled just the same, be it in games, politics, etc. I feel it cheapens the 'whole' when we give credit one while giving absolutly no credit to another.

 

A simple moment of silence for *all* is better suited than remembering a single person, in my opinion. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with remembering a single person, I just feel the whole is greater than the sum of it's many parts, and that is lost in translation when we choose to remember one of the sum.

 

And if you didn't follow any of that...too bad.

yeah i can see where you are coming from with this. i can certainly understand it better now. i don't necessarily agree with everything, but i certainly now understand your point of view

Edited April 9, 2008 by daa84