2008 Chicago Cubs Catch-All Thread

[whitesoxbrian]

they are and the cubs appear to be wearing hats that seem a bit differnet than normal as well

Not sure. They seem have a flag embroidered in the shape of their logo. Not sure why they're wearing it yet the Sox and Indians weren't...

[witesoxfan]

Not if the Cards get Holliday and the Brewers get Fuentes and Sabathia. Then, it'll be a 2 team race for first with the Cubs in 3rd.

 

Right, because the Cubs are just going to fold up like a chair and go back into their hole if that happens. I'll just go ahead and disagree with that entire notion. The Cubs offense is good enough that it alone should win the division for them and that they'll add a reliever or two to get them to the end of the year. Their starting should be good enough, but the key is the end of that bullpen.

 

Holliday is overrated, the Brewers will still struggle to get to Fuentes even if they did pick him up, and I'm not sure the Rockies will even be selling. They're 8.5 out at this point yet on the verge of selling while some people say the Tigers still have a shot at winning the division and they're 7 back? That doesn't make sense, and I don't see the Rockies as dealers.

 

I'd be more than happy if the Cubs blew it and were kept out of the postseason, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

That silly thing that Soto/Blanco do with Cubs pitchers where theycall for face high fastballs on 2 strike counts (and then everyone swings) pisses me off.

[Flash Tizzle]

For all of Kerry Wood's injury issues over the years, it's amazing he's still throwing upper 90's; yet a certain pitcher on our team has lost five mph on his fastball in just three seasons.

[witesoxfan]

For all of Kerry Wood's injury issues over the years, it's amazing he's still throwing upper 90's; yet a certain pitcher on our team has lost five mph on his fastball in just three seasons.

 

and the one that's lost 5 MPH on his fastball has been healthier over the past 3 years than Kerry Wood and he's arguably been better than Wood this season, even if he has 30 fewer strike outs.

[Flash Tizzle]

and the one that's lost 5 MPH on his fastball has been healthier over the past 3 years than Kerry Wood and he's arguably been better than Wood this season, even if he has 30 fewer strike outs.

That's exactly my observation -- with his relative health over three season Jenks has lost velocity while Wood, who has endured injury issues for nearly a decade, is throwing just as hard as he did from day one.

 

I've never suggested Jenks is the inferior pitcher, though. It has just been my unsubstantiated belief since last season that Jenks isn't long for this league. You expect hardthrowing pitchers to eventually lose velocity, but it seems to have happened much too quickly with Bobby. How effective will he be at 90-92 mph? I don't know, maybe he'd still be a decent middle reliever (4.00-4.50 ERA). Those are certaintly valuable, and I'm sure if the velocity drop occurs before he reaches free agency we'll still hold onto him.

Edited July 3, 2008 by Flash Tizzle

[whitesoxbrian]

Right, because the Cubs are just going to fold up like a chair and go back into their hole if that happens. I'll just go ahead and disagree with that entire notion. The Cubs offense is good enough that it alone should win the division for them and that they'll add a reliever or two to get them to the end of the year. Their starting should be good enough, but the key is the end of that bullpen.

 

Holliday is overrated, the Brewers will still struggle to get to Fuentes even if they did pick him up, and I'm not sure the Rockies will even be selling. They're 8.5 out at this point yet on the verge of selling while some people say the Tigers still have a shot at winning the division and they're 7 back? That doesn't make sense, and I don't see the Rockies as dealers.

 

I'd be more than happy if the Cubs blew it and were kept out of the postseason, but I'll believe it when I see it.

He's hitting .338 with a .423 OBP and he's over-rated.

[witesoxfan]

That's exactly my observation -- with his relative health over three season Jenks has lost velocity while Wood, who has endured injury issues for nearly a decade, is throwing just as hard as he did from day one.

 

I've never suggested Jenks is the inferior pitcher, though. It has just been my unsubstantiated belief since last season that Jenks isn't long for this league. You expect hardthrowing pitchers to eventually lose velocity, but it seems to have happened much too quickly with Bobby. How effective will he be at 90-92 mph? I don't know, maybe he'd still be a decent middle reliever (4.00-4.50 ERA). Those are certaintly valuable, and I'm sure if the velocity drop occurs before he reaches free agency we'll still hold onto him.

 

I don't think Jenks will ever get to 90-92; to the contrary, I think if absolutely necessary, he could get it up to 98-100. Cooper historically asks pitchers to take a bit off to get better control and movement on their pitches. That's exactly what Jenks is doing and it's one of the biggest reasons the White Sox staff has been among the healthiest in the league over the past 5 years or so. That, and the conditioning and training programs the Sox have.

 

I also don't think Wood will be healthy at the end of the season. If he is, I'll be surprised as hell.

 

He's hitting .338 with a .423 OBP and he's over-rated.

 

2008

.362/.441/.610/1.051 at Coors Fields

.309/.401/.472/.873 on the road.

 

Career

.363/.427/.656/1.083 at Coors Field

.277/.340/.450/.790 on the road

 

Yeah, just try and convince me he's not overrated. 200 point difference in OPS this season, 300 point difference in his career.

 

So, just wondering - if he does, in fact, get traded to St. Louis - can he still play half of his games at Coors Field?

[whitesoxfan101]

Yeah, it would be a major upset if the Cubs don't make the playoffs. The Cardinals and Brewers are probably the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the NL right now, but I'd be surprised if one, let alone both, finish ahead of the Cubs. The Cubs problem is that their pitching will not win in October, especially if Marmol is as human as he's looked the last 2 or 3 weeks, not to mention their #2 starter literally can't win on the road this year. That is why I'd be shocked if they don't make a move or two before August 1st.

Edited July 3, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[Kalapse]

I don't think Jenks will ever get to 90-92; to the contrary, I think if absolutely necessary, he could get it up to 98-100. Cooper historically asks pitchers to take a bit off to get better control and movement on their pitches. That's exactly what Jenks is doing and it's one of the biggest reasons the White Sox staff has been among the healthiest in the league over the past 5 years or so. That, and the conditioning and training programs the Sox have.

 

I also don't think Wood will be healthy at the end of the season. If he is, I'll be surprised as hell.

 

 

 

2008

.362/.441/.610/1.051 at Coors Fields

.309/.401/.472/.873 on the road.

 

Career

.363/.427/.656/1.083 at Coors Field

.277/.340/.450/.790 on the road

 

Yeah, just try and convince me he's not overrated. 200 point difference in OPS this season, 300 point difference in his career.

 

So, just wondering - if he does, in fact, get traded to St. Louis - can he still play half of his games at Coors Field?

Career numbers:

 

In AL ballparks: .267/.330/.429/.759

In NL East BPs: .302/.365/.483/.847

In NL Cent BPs: .291/.358/.493/.850

In All BPs minus COL, SD & SF: .284/.349/.455/.803

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

That's exactly my observation -- with his relative health over three season Jenks has lost velocity while Wood, who has endured injury issues for nearly a decade, is throwing just as hard as he did from day one.

 

I've never suggested Jenks is the inferior pitcher, though. It has just been my unsubstantiated belief since last season that Jenks isn't long for this league. You expect hardthrowing pitchers to eventually lose velocity, but it seems to have happened much too quickly with Bobby. How effective will he be at 90-92 mph? I don't know, maybe he'd still be a decent middle reliever (4.00-4.50 ERA). Those are certaintly valuable, and I'm sure if the velocity drop occurs before he reaches free agency we'll still hold onto him.

 

It's amazing how Jenks has gone from a closer with possibly the best stuff in the entire league to a guy with some of the worst stuff of any closer. I mentioned this in the catch all thread the other day, how I wish he would throw the high fastball more to set up his curve. Even though his stuff is down, he's still gets guys out and that's all that matters now. However, I don't think he'll be this good long term.

[SoxFan1]

It's amazing how Jenks has gone from a closer with possibly the best stuff in the entire league to a guy with some of the worst stuff of any closer. I mentioned this in the catch all thread the other day, how I wish he would throw the high fastball more to set up his curve. Even though his stuff is down, he's still gets guys out and that's all that matters now. However, I don't think he'll be this good long term.

What I don't understand is how Bobby Jenks can throw harder than Octavio Dotel with just as good, if not better breaking ball, and still have way lower strike out numbers.

[knightni]

Is it just me or are the Giants wearing navy blue hats with a silver SF?

 

 

Cubs seem to be wearing a similar style.

 

 

they are and the cubs appear to be wearing hats that seem a bit differnet than normal as well

 

 

Not sure. They seem have a flag embroidered in the shape of their logo. Not sure why they're wearing it yet the Sox and Indians weren't...

 

 

http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/news/ar...jsp&c_id=sf

 

[StrangeSox]

Carlos Marmol continues his rapid spiral to mediocrity giving up 2 base hits after 2 K's and then Ray Ray 2K snuck one over the RF wall. Tied 5-5.

 

Mark Silverman would tell you that he's the second best relief pitcher in baseball and he wouldn't do a straight Marmol for Sabathia trade.

[StrangeSox]

2008

.362/.441/.610/1.051 at Coors Fields

.309/.401/.472/.873 on the road.

 

Career

.363/.427/.656/1.083 at Coors Field

.277/.340/.450/.790 on the road

 

Yeah, just try and convince me he's not overrated. 200 point difference in OPS this season, 300 point difference in his career.

 

So, just wondering - if he does, in fact, get traded to St. Louis - can he still play half of his games at Coors Field?

 

It's not like .873 OPS is bad, though. That's still a pretty damn good line.

[G&T]

What I don't understand is how Bobby Jenks can throw harder than Octavio Dotel with just as good, if not better breaking ball, and still have way lower strike out numbers.

 

Jenks throws down and Dotel throws up (so to speak) in the zone.

It's easier to get to a low fastball than a high one. When Jenks had his best fastball, he threw higher.

 

I heard all this a couple games ago on the broadcast.

[southsideirish71]

It's amazing how Jenks has gone from a closer with possibly the best stuff in the entire league to a guy with some of the worst stuff of any closer. I mentioned this in the catch all thread the other day, how I wish he would throw the high fastball more to set up his curve. Even though his stuff is down, he's still gets guys out and that's all that matters now. However, I don't think he'll be this good long term.

 

When Jenks came to this team, people were all worried he was going to blow his arm out, his fastball is too straight, he is too wild. Now he throws strikes, if you watch his 94-95 mph fastball moves all over the place, and sinks. Ask a hitter who is harder to hit, Kyle Farnsworth or Bobby Jenks. Bobby has also started to pitch to contact more, which will get him out of innings in less pitches than trying to strike everyone out. The radar gun police did this last year on how Bobby was not throwing hard enough, etc. He is evolving into a pitcher. Which means he will be around longer.

 

 

[RockRaines]

and the one that's lost 5 MPH on his fastball has been healthier over the past 3 years than Kerry Wood and he's arguably been better than Wood this season, even if he has 30 fewer strike outs.

And Bobby didnt "lose" anything. He can still go back to those old mechanics and throw straight heat with zero movement and not have any break on his slider, change, or cutter.

[RockRaines]

That silly thing that Soto/Blanco do with Cubs pitchers where theycall for face high fastballs on 2 strike counts (and then everyone swings) pisses me off.

They were having some fun with our hitters too, by faking their gloves in spots and trying to distract them. Its pretty bush league by Soto, and someone will let him know it eventually. They just need to take an extra LOOOONG swing.

 

 

And Marmol is a very good reliever, but his control issues are what got him into trouble when he was a starter too.

 

2006 1.69 WHIP 59k 59BB

[shipps]

They were having some fun with our hitters too, by faking their gloves in spots and trying to distract them. Its pretty bush league by Soto, and someone will let him know it eventually. They just need to take an extra LOOOONG swing.

IMO that isnt bush league.Its just a little gamesmenship which makes baseball special like stealing signs and trying to use a ball that hit the dirt.I love those kind of things.

[Kyyle23]

Are we talking about the catcher standing up and squeezing the glove twice at the eyes so the pitcher knows to throw high?

 

Thats bush league? I thought that was standard for a catcher calling for the high heat?

[RockRaines]

Are we talking about the catcher standing up and squeezing the glove twice at the eyes so the pitcher knows to throw high?

 

Thats bush league? I thought that was standard for a catcher calling for the high heat?

No, watch what Soto did against the Sox. He blatantly put his mitt in front of the pitchers view and shook it to distract them before pitches, then moved outside. It wasnt a typical gamesmanship moving catcher type situation, he stepped over that line and really went to somewhat taunt the hitters. It happened when we were being blown out at Wrigley.

[witesoxfan]

It's not like .873 OPS is bad, though. That's still a pretty damn good line.

 

But if you are trading for Matt Holliday, you are trading for a guy that you assume is going to hit put up a .975-1.000 OPS, not .873.

 

I've never said he's not good, and I actually thought he should have won the NL MVP last year, but he's overrated as hell outside of Coors Field and I think any team trading for him will end up slightly disappointed.

[Brian]

Marmol craps the bed again, this time the Cubs were already losing though. Gave up a 3 run homer to Rich Aurillia.

[whitesoxfan101]

The book is officially out on Carlos Marmol. Unless he hangs it obviously, take the slider at all times because as nasty as it is, it won't stay in the zone. Then, crush the fastball because it's his only other pitch. Either that, or Marmol's overuse has caught up to him, or perhaps it's a mix of both.

Proves true yet again today. Take the sliders, usually they'll be out of the zone, then crush the fastball. Marmol is a big problem for them, and they can't win long term without him because if he's bad, all they have in that bullpen is Wood.