Danny Richar

[Balta1701]

You mentioned NOBODY should be in the lineup with a sub .200 BA thats why I referred to Thome, yes I know ones proven the others not but based on your theory you'd have Thome on the bench

Let's put it this way...based on their performance in recent years, I think Jim Thome has earned himself a longer leash than Juan Uribe.

 

If Jim is putting up a sub 600 OPS in May/June, then there's clearly got to be something wrong and it's time to DL him and maybe try to find a way to use Fields/Anderson/someone else to get more production out of that spot. But I wouldn't bench him otherwise until probably the AS break. I've seen Jim Thome. I know what Jim Thome's bat can do, and I've seen Jim Thome be a very streaky hitter throughout his career, where he does get in to these funks but always breaks out.

 

If Juan Uribe is hanging around the Mendoza line about a month from now, Mid-May, when a potential replacement for him completes a rehab assignment...then it's time. I've seen what Uribe's given me lately, I've seen him simply unable to improve on his numbers for 3+ years now, and he's off to a worse start this season than his April last year, which wasn't any good either. If Uribe can't turn his season around ASAP, then there's no great reason to keep giving him playing time.

 

Remember this...as a rookie, a very raw kid who's been raw at every level he's landed at and who finally started getting things going in September (Faster than I expected) after a month in the big leagues...Richar put up a .230 BA and .695 OPS in his first 1/3 of a season. That's basically what the veteran Uribe put up for the whole year (and actually a better OPS for Richar). I can expect one of these 2 to get better with playing time. I don't think I can expect that from the toher.

[BearSox]

ALL positions in the middle of the field (SS, 2B, CF) are important defensively.

That may be true, but 2B is the least important. And, Richar is better then average.

 

Are you kidding me? Cabrera didn't know crap about Richar's capabilities at the time. He most likely said that to be a good "team player", as most people thought that Richar was going to be the starting 2B at the time.

lol, your going to feel like an idiot on this one.

 

"I saw him when we went to Chicago in September, and this kid is going to be special," said Cabrera, who pointed to Richar's tremendous power and speed as key traits. "I saw a couple of double plays and the way he moves, and he's going to be great.

 

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...sp&c_id=cws

 

Hell, Cabrera even helped out my points of how I was saying he is going to get better and be good defensively.

 

But we're trying to win NOW, and Uribe is clearly better defensively than Richar. And while that shouldn't keep Richar from getting some time at 2B when he's healthy, completely handing over the starting gig at 2B to a player that is inferior defensively and may or may not be better at the plate isn't something that you want to do right now.

 

I'm not saying Richar should play everyday, obviously he needs time to readjust, but from what I've seen... he's already a better hitter then Uribe. And usually offense > defense, especially at a position like 2B. The only positions where you can make a case for defense > offense is CF, SS, C, and maybe 3B.

 

Richar should be given fair chance to win back was thought to be his. It's not like Uribe is lighting up the world offensively, and Richar is good enough defensively to justify getting his chance. Anyone who has an eye for talent would know that Richar has a shot to become a very good player. We'd be stupid to potentially hold back that talent.

Edited April 14, 2008 by BearSox

[peanut33tillman]

Let's put it this way...based on their performance in recent years, I think Jim Thome has earned himself a longer leash than Juan Uribe.

 

If Jim is putting up a sub 600 OPS in May/June, then there's clearly got to be something wrong and it's time to DL him and maybe try to find a way to use Fields/Anderson/someone else to get more production out of that spot. But I wouldn't bench him otherwise until probably the AS break. I've seen Jim Thome. I know what Jim Thome's bat can do, and I've seen Jim Thome be a very streaky hitter throughout his career, where he does get in to these funks but always breaks out.

 

If Juan Uribe is hanging around the Mendoza line about a month from now, Mid-May, when a potential replacement for him completes a rehab assignment...then it's time. I've seen what Uribe's given me lately, I've seen him simply unable to improve on his numbers for 3+ years now, and he's off to a worse start this season than his April last year, which wasn't any good either. If Uribe can't turn his season around ASAP, then there's no great reason to keep giving him playing time.

 

Remember this...as a rookie, a very raw kid who's been raw at every level he's landed at and who finally started getting things going in September (Faster than I expected) after a month in the big leagues...Richar put up a .230 BA and .695 OPS in his first 1/3 of a season. That's basically what the veteran Uribe put up for the whole year (and actually a better OPS for Richar). I can expect one of these 2 to get better with playing time. I don't think I can expect that from the toher.

 

Yes and I'd agree obviously Thome is more established theres no debating that, but that wasnt my point...nonetheless though granted Uribe hasnt done anything to neccessarily deserve the starting nod yet I dont feel he's subject to have his position be taken away from him either especially from an unproven Richar but we will see

[WCSox]

That may be true, but 2B is the least important. And, Richar is better then average.

 

Good defense at 2B is very important. Almost as important as 3B and a hell of a lot more important than 1B, LF, or RF.

 

lol, your going to feel like an idiot on this one.

 

LOL at you drinking the Cabrera Kool-Aid. What did you expect him to say about Richar? "Meh, he's OK"?

 

I'm not saying Richar should play everyday, obviously he needs time to readjust, but from what I've seen... he's already a better hitter then Uribe.

 

That's your biased opinion. His numbers indicate that he's not much of an improvement over Uribe at all.

 

And usually offense > defense, especially at a position like 2B. The only positions where you can make a case for defense > offense is CF, SS, C, and maybe 3B.

 

If offense is so much more important than defense at 2B, why do so few of the league's better hitters play 2B? And why did Ozzie start Uribe there over Ramirez and Ozuna?

 

Richar should be given fair chance to win back was thought to be his. It's not like Uribe is lighting up the world offensively, and Richar is good enough defensively to justify getting his chance. Anyone who has an eye for talent would know that Richar has a shot to become a very good player. We'd be stupid to potentially hold back that talent.

 

No, we'd be stupid to yank superior defense for a guy who hit just as poorly at the ML level last year. While I agree that Richar has more upside than Uribe and that he should be starting next season when Uribe is gone, there's no evidence that he's a better player RIGHT NOW. We're trying to win right now, not develop players.

 

And on top of that, the superior offense that Richar may or may not bring to the table this year means a lot less when Crede and Cabrera are slugging it out for the title of "7th best hitter on the team." This team's lineup is a lumber company (Swish, Cabrera, Thome, Paulie, JD, AJ, Crede) and they also have the option of bringing in Fields, if needed. Given that, defense from the #9 hitting 2B is more important than the potential for moderate improvement over Uribe's numbers.

Edited April 14, 2008 by WCSox

[witesoxfan]

First of all, Brian Anderson is currently on the roster, so he has nothing to do with this topic.

 

and Secondly sure everything is working fine right now, we have timely hitting, lots of 2 out RBI, plenty of power. But what happens when that all comes to a screeching halt?? You have to start manufacturing runs, the same credo that '05 team lived by. And to manufacture runs its kind of hard to do when you are waiting to string 3 hits together to do it.

 

I'd forgotten about Alexei...he needs playing time. All the same, if Owens is on the roster, he'll likely take playing time away from Anderson, and from everything I've ever seen, Anderson is the superior athlete and player. There's a reason why Anderson is relevant in any discussion regarding Jerry Owens.

 

I will also call bulls*** on that manufacturing runs. What's the need to manufacture runs when you can just score 7 runs a game? Now, when the time calls for it and you need one run late in the game, that's a completely different story. But manufacturing runs should a last resort move that only happens when absolutely necessary, not when at any given time nearly anyone in the lineup can "manufacture" a run or two with one swing of the bat. I believe Ozzie has learned this, because he really doesn't bunt much anymore.

 

Not only that, but the 2005 Sox HIT 200 HOME RUNS AND LIVED BY THE HOME RUN IN THE POSTSEASON. Some people seem to think the Sox were just some scrappy team that hit 100 homers all season...well that's only a half truth, because they were scrappy - and by scrappy, I mean the offense sucked but, as has been said before, scored just enough runs to win. The fact remains that they lived and died by the homer that entire season, and if they hit, say, 40 fewer homers as a team, they don't make the postseason. They may have only won 85 games for all I care.

 

Also, this line...

 

And to manufacture runs its kind of hard to do when you are waiting to string 3 hits together to do it.

 

...is complete BS. Yeah, when you hit 3 singles in a row, but I haven't seen this team put together 3 singles all season, and yet, still 2nd in the majors, 1st in the AL in runs scored. How's it work? Because if you manufacture a run, you have to have someone on base, someone to get them over, and someone to get them in. With this offense, you hit the ball and trot slowly around the bases. It's much less time consuming and much more efficient.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a station to station offense that gets on base and hits doubles and homers. Ask the Yankees or Red Sox how it's worked for them the past few years. I think they'll recommend it. Yet the Royals and Pirates think it's cute to steal bases and manufacture runs; how good have they been?

 

This offense is built to absolutely destroy the ball, and that would, in turn, mean there's no need for Jerry Owens anywhere near the major league roster. He should be the 26th man and the 5th outfielder (if you aren't counting Alexei, Pablo, and Toby Hall)

[BearSox]

Competent defense at 2B is very important. Almost as important as 3B and a hell of a lot more important than 1B, LF, or RF.

Richar is a competent defender (at least), and will only get better out there.

 

LOL at you drinking the Cabrera Kool-Aid. What did you expect him to say about Richar? "Meh, he's OK"?

Well, if Cabrera wanted to lie, he would have said something along the lines of, "I think he's good and I'm looking forward to playing with him." I find it tough to believe that he'd say as many positive things as he did about Richar if he was just trying to be a good teammate.

 

That's your biased opinion. His numbers indicate that he's not much of an improvement over Uribe at all.

That's not being biased at all. It's simply watching baseball and being able to tell who sucks and who actually has potential.

 

Anyone who can see talent can see that Richar has so much more offensive potential then Uribe. Plus, based on the numbers, it showed that Richar, who was a rookie getting his first taste of the MLB was able to match, if not do better, then Uribe someone who's been playing in the majors for several years already.

 

No, we'd be stupid to yank superior defense for a guy who hit just as poorly at the ML level last year. While I agree that Richar has more upside than Uribe and that he should be starting next season when Uribe is gone, there's no evidence that he's a better player RIGHT NOW. We're trying to win right now, not develop players.

 

And on top of that, the superior offense that Richar may or may not bring to the table this year means a lot less when Crede and Cabrera are slugging it out for the title of "7th best hitter on the team." This team's lineup is a lumber company (Swish, Cabrera, Thome, Paulie, JD, AJ, Crede) and they also have the option of bringing in Fields, if needed. Given that, defense from the #9 hitting 2B is more important than the potential for moderate improvement over Uribe's numbers.

No defense can make up for someone who can barely hit .200 with an OBP of less then .300. And the arguement that "well, we have 8 good hitters already, so who cares if one guy can't even break .200" is plain stupid. Richar is someone who can come in and play above average defense and provide us with some offense. Why have an easy out in the lineup if you don't have to? It's idiotic to do that.

 

I could see if Richar couldn't field a damn, but that's not the case here at all.

[WCSox]

No defense can make up for someone who can barely hit .200 with an OBP of less then .300.

 

That's about what Richar hit in the majors last year, so I'm not sure what your point is.

 

Why do you suppose that Ozzie penciled in Uribe at 2B over Ramirez and Ozuna? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he values better-than-average defense at 2B?

Edited April 14, 2008 by WCSox

[BearSox]

This is the only time when I wish 2005 didn't happen. People saw one too many ESPN montages of the "small ball" Sox, and got the idea that because the Sox won the series in 2005, and there wasn't a superstar in the lineup, thats how you win ball games. The fascination with "Small Ball" is amazing.

 

Some of my favorite Earl Weaver lines.

 

"Forget about the bunt unless there is no other choice. Look instead to Dr. Longball and his assistant, Dr. Three-Hit."

 

"The minute you hit a homer, you have a run, no questions asked. With anything else, you aren't guaranteed a run."

 

"On a home run, nothing can go wrong"

 

"The power of the home run is so elementary that I fail to comprehend why people try to outsmart this game in other ways"

 

"If you play for one run, that's all you'll get."

 

While "small ball" is overrated by some, it is underrated as well. Of course it's nice to get 7 runs a game, but thats not always the case. If there is a pitching duel going on, and 1 run might be the difference, why do nothing but swing for the long ball? Your facing the other teams ace, so a homer is unlikely to come easy. You got a guy with some speed at bat with the 3B back, why would you want that guy to swing for the fences, when the other team is giving him an easy single with the bunt?

 

If the guy gets on with a bunt single, that opens up a ton of possibilities. Perhaps a hit and run, or maybe a sac bunt to get the guy in scoring position.

 

While you shouldn't live by this, it is a very important part of the game at times.

[BearSox]

That's about what Richar hit in the majors last year, so I'm not sure what your point is.

so what someone hit in their first taste of MLB action is the only thing that person can do in his next season?

 

Wow, that makes sense.

[WCSox]

so what someone hit in their first taste of MLB action is the only thing that person can do in his next season?

 

Wow, that makes sense.

 

so what someone hit in their last season of MLB action is the only thing that person can do in his next season?

 

Wow, that makes sense.

 

You do realize that Uribe actually had a couple of solid, full seasons at the ML level, right?

 

I like Richar and think that he'll be a fine 2B... and that he'll eventually be a better hitter than Uribe. But I don't see any evidence that he's a better option at the plate right now. And Uribe is clearly a better defensive player. So much so that he beat out Ramirez and Ozuna.

 

[BearSox]

You do realize that Uribe actually had a couple of solid, full seasons at the ML level, right?

 

I like Richar and think that he'll be a fine 2B... and that he'll eventually be a better hitter than Uribe. But I don't see any evidence that he's a better option at the plate right now. And Uribe is clearly a better defensive player. So much so that he beat out Ramirez and Ozuna.

 

Uribe had a great first half in 04 and was not completely horrible in 05.. however, for the past 3 years so far, he's been one of the worst hitters in all of baseball. That alone justifies trying to find someone else to replace him, during the season or not.

 

 

As this is obviously going in circles, I'll stop here. You can have the final word however.

[RockRaines]

so what someone hit in their last season of MLB action is the only thing that person can do in his next season?

 

Wow, that makes sense.

 

You do realize that Uribe actually had a couple of solid, full seasons at the ML level, right?

Years ago. Richar has a higher ceiling and is the future at 2B. Right now his offense would be better than Uribe's, if he were healthy.

[witesoxfan]

While "small ball" is overrated by some, it is underrated as well. Of course it's nice to get 7 runs a game, but thats not always the case. If there is a pitching duel going on, and 1 run might be the difference, why do nothing but swing for the long ball? Your facing the other teams ace, so a homer is unlikely to come easy. You got a guy with some speed at bat with the 3B back, why would you want that guy to swing for the fences, when the other team is giving him an easy single with the bunt?

 

If the guy gets on with a bunt single, that opens up a ton of possibilities. Perhaps a hit and run, or maybe a sac bunt to get the guy in scoring position.

 

While you shouldn't live by this, it is a very important part of the game at times.

 

And neither Tony nor I have said otherwise. In fact, I noted in my post that late in a game when you are down a run, using smallball really isn't the worst idea. It's generally easier to get a run in via smallball than it is via home run...it's just much more inefficient.

 

I also ask who you would have bunt for a hit in this lineup. Cabrera is the only obvious one to me that's a starter, and Pablo isn't bad either, but I don't think you are about to see Thome bunt it, not when with one swing of the bat he can put a run on the board. We've seen as fans twice where a home run can win a game in a pitcher's duel, and I'm thinking only in regard to Freddy's one-hitter against the Twins - a Jacque Jones homer being the only hit - and Anthony Reyes' one-hitter against the Sox - a Jim Thome homer. Why wouldn't you swing for the fences if that one swing can generate 1 run, and that's all you need to win a game? Sure, don't have Pablo Ozuna swing for the fences, but I hope that Konerko, Thome, Dye...players of the ilk...take a shot at a homer every time they go up to bat.

 

[Dick Allen]

Yeah, the Sox have turned a ton of DP's, thanks to pitchers putting the ball on the ground. Saying that Uribe has been a big reason for all those DP's is asinine. Any 2B worth a damn can turn a DP.

What's assinine is you thinking Uribe has nothing to do with the DPs, and thinking substituting anyone for him would get you the same results. Richar got on base at a .289 clip last year. What makes him a lock to do much better?

[Balta1701]

What's assinine is you thinking Uribe has nothing to do with the DPs, and thinking substituting anyone for him would get you the same results. Richar got on base at a .289 clip last year. What makes him a lock to do much better?

Certainly nothing makes him a lock to do so. But the odds are, when you take a kid who started off very raw at each level and give them time to learn the level, they tend to get better. Richar showed all the things that would make us think he can get better, took half as many walks in 180 at bats as Uribe took in 500+, and improved with the bat from month to month.

 

But, here's the remarkable thing. If Richar goes through his minor league rehab stint, hits ok, earns his way back to the big leagues, starts for a little while, and performs poorly with the bat...then hell, just call it a platoon!

[joejoedairy]

And neither Tony nor I have said otherwise. In fact, I noted in my post that late in a game when you are down a run, using smallball really isn't the worst idea. It's generally easier to get a run in via smallball than it is via home run...it's just much more inefficient.

 

I also ask who you would have bunt for a hit in this lineup. Cabrera is the only obvious one to me that's a starter, and Pablo isn't bad either, but I don't think you are about to see Thome bunt it, not when with one swing of the bat he can put a run on the board. We've seen as fans twice where a home run can win a game in a pitcher's duel, and I'm thinking only in regard to Freddy's one-hitter against the Twins - a Jacque Jones homer being the only hit - and Anthony Reyes' one-hitter against the Sox - a Jim Thome homer. Why wouldn't you swing for the fences if that one swing can generate 1 run, and that's all you need to win a game? Sure, don't have Pablo Ozuna swing for the fences, but I hope that Konerko, Thome, Dye...players of the ilk...take a shot at a homer every time they go up to bat.

 

Swinging for the fences has killed the sox for two years now

[witesoxfan]

Swinging for the fences has killed the sox for two years now

 

Last year overall suckage did. In 2006, having no leadoff hitter in the second half and terrible pitching did.

 

Swinging for the fences has never hurt the Sox as badly as people really want to believe.

[BearSox]

Swinging for the fences cost us the game tonight. The most noticeable cases were the last 2 AB's, with Quentin and Crede. Instead of just dropping the bat down and poking a hit into RF over the 1st or 2nd baseman's head, they were swinging for the fences. Both of them wanted to be heroes and hit 600 foot home runs.

 

Plus, you can take most AB's of the team vs. Smith as an example of this as well. Like Hawk said early, Buehrle's best friend is greed. Players aren't idiots, they know Buehrle has junk stuff for the most part, put when you see 86 mph fastballs, you tend to overswing. Tonight the White Sox showed greed by trying to hit every pitch Smith threw 600 feet.

 

Vs. pitchers like Buehrle and Smith, you gotta play small ball, IMO. The homer will eventually come against them.

Edited April 15, 2008 by BearSox

[WCSox]

What's assinine is you thinking Uribe has nothing to do with the DPs, and thinking substituting anyone for him would get you the same results. Richar got on base at a .289 clip last year. What makes him a lock to do much better?

 

Because Brian Anderson improved significantly during his first full season of at-bats.

 

Certainly nothing makes him a lock to do so. But the odds are, when you take a kid who started off very raw at each level and give them time to learn the level, they tend to get better. Richar showed all the things that would make us think he can get better, took half as many walks in 180 at bats as Uribe took in 500+, and improved with the bat from month to month.

 

Well, let's not get carried away here. Richar still only took 16 walks in 187 ABs (and struck out 33 times). Because he doesn't take a significant amount of walks and hasn't shown that he can hit for average, I don't realistically see him doing much better than a .250 BA and a .320 OBP this year. While that may be slightly better than .230/.285 that Uribe put up last year, it doesn't make him an every-day ML hitter.

 

Hitters usually take time to develop. Crede absolutely tore up the minors and was projected to be the second coming of Mike Schmidt. Yet he hovered around 20 HRs and a .300 OBP for his first three full seasons in the bigs. And I don't see anybody projecting Richar to be the next Robbie Alomar.

 

But, here's the remarkable thing. If Richar goes through his minor league rehab stint, hits ok, earns his way back to the big leagues, starts for a little while, and performs poorly with the bat...then hell, just call it a platoon!

 

Can't say that I'd object, especially if Uribe is still hitting around the Mendoza Line in late June.

Edited April 15, 2008 by WCSox

[max power]

Because Brian Anderson improved significantly after getting his first full season of at-bats.

When did he bat since his first full season?

[WCSox]

When did he bat since his first full season?

 

Sorry, I meant to say "during", not "after."

 

[Jeremy]

If people are convinced Richar is a very poor hitter based on the fewer than 200 at bats he had last season, I think that's poor valuation. Either way though, it doesn't remotely justify playing Uribe at 2B. If we don't have someone in the minors (Getz, Richar, Bourgeois) or on the bench (Ramirez, Ozuna) who can outperform Uribe, we should be able to get that type of player from another team at a low price.

[DBAHO]

What's assinine is you thinking Uribe has nothing to do with the DPs, and thinking substituting anyone for him would get you the same results. Richar got on base at a .289 clip last year. What makes him a lock to do much better?

Just gonna throw out some stats;

 

Uribe 2007 - 112 K's in 513 AB's and 34 BB's.

Richar 2007 - 33 K's in 187 AB's and 16 BB's.

 

Richar also had the slightly higher SLG % than Uribe (which is meant to be Juan's main strength offensively).

 

Richar had a GPA of .225 compared to Uribe's .220.

Richar took 4.0 P/PA compared to Juan's 3.7.

Richar had a higher % of line drives and ground balls to Uribe (which to me shows more of a balanced hitter at the plate).

Uribe also hit .198 with RISP last season. Richar's # was .250.

 

So that to me shows how bad Juan Uribe was offensively last season, if a rookie in his 1st season can beat him in pretty much all major offensive numbers.

[max power]

GPA lol. You may want to edit that.

[Dick Allen]

Just gonna throw out some stats;

 

Uribe 2007 - 112 K's in 513 AB's and 34 BB's.

Richar 2007 - 33 K's in 187 AB's and 16 BB's.

 

Richar also had the slightly higher SLG % than Uribe (which is meant to be Juan's main strength offensively).

 

Richar had a GPA of .225 compared to Uribe's .220.

Richar took 4.0 P/PA compared to Juan's 3.7.

Richar had a higher % of line drives and ground balls to Uribe (which to me shows more of a balanced hitter at the plate).

Uribe also hit .198 with RISP last season. Richar's # was .250.

 

So that to me shows how bad Juan Uribe was offensively last season, if a rookie in his 1st season can beat him in pretty much all major offensive numbers.

Those numbers are pretty close, yet Uribe, by far the better defensive player, and probably Soxtalk's most hated White Sox, is a worthless piece of crap, but Richar is going to be great. I'm not arguing whether Uribe was bad last year or not, he was, so were a lot of guys. What I'm arguing is that while Richar may have a chance to be good, right now, considering defense, he's not even better than Juan Uribe at his worst.