Strong play by Sox may keep Owens in AAA

[joeynach]

Ramirez needs to be sent to AAA, the way this is right now there is not going to be much playing time for him. He needs to get his ABs and adjust to American style of baseball, everyday, he needs to play. The good thing is that the team has found a nitch with the current starting 9. Im fine with BA as a 4th OF, but send Alexi down. Id be fine for letting Richar play 2nd when hes healthy. Uribe is fine defensively, but hes constantly an auto out in the lineup. He is definition of poor At Bats.

[soxfan3530]

I like the team as is. My only gripe might be wasserman.

[letsgoarow]

IMO i think we keep it as is. We got a LOT of hitters. Our big bats arent hitting yet, and were still scoring runs. I would keep Juan at 2nd for his glove. I like that cabrera/uribe combo.

[iamshack]

There might be some advantage to sending Ramirez down to Charlotte to get him more playing time, but I think they'll keep him around.

 

Reason? I think the club is more concerned about his adjustment to the US than they are about him getting at-bats against AAA pitchers.

 

The Sox major league coaches + Contreras provide a much better transition team for a non-English speaking player... especially one making such a huge cultural change.

 

That's a really solid point...I hadn't thought about that. The other thing to consider is that if Ramirez is already a very solid fastball hitter, it may not do him a ton of good to go down...he may be better off continuing to get acclimated to the US and working on as many hitting drills as possible on the side...

 

I can't convey enough how excited I am to see OG take this position in regards to Owens...I'm not sure if it's for the right reasons, but he is coming to the right result.

[Balta1701]

That's a really solid point...I hadn't thought about that. The other thing to consider is that if Ramirez is already a very solid fastball hitter, it may not do him a ton of good to go down...he may be better off continuing to get acclimated to the US and working on as many hitting drills as possible on the side...

At least with Fields, the argument was made that keeping him in the minor leagues wouldn't teach him that much, because his weakness was biggest against major league fastballs, which aren't very common in the minors, while his strength is against off speed stuff, which he didn't really need to practice against.

 

Following that logic suggests that Alexei could benefit from heading down, if he's already strong against fastballs but weak against breaking balls, as he'd have a chance to work against a bunch of them in game situations.

[BearSox]

I don't think Owens should even sniff the MLB roster. If we want speed off the bench, call up Bourgeois who provides plus speed and actually knows how to hit, and is a switch hitter.

[iamshack]

At least with Fields, the argument was made that keeping him in the minor leagues wouldn't teach him that much, because his weakness was biggest against major league fastballs, which aren't very common in the minors, while his strength is against off speed stuff, which he didn't really need to practice against.

 

Following that logic suggests that Alexei could benefit from heading down, if he's already strong against fastballs but weak against breaking balls, as he'd have a chance to work against a bunch of them in game situations.

 

Right, but I used the opposite logic with Fields. If you truly look at AA/AAA pitchers, they usually have fairly good fastballs. They would not have reached the level they have without it. What they often lack is a mastery or at least consistency with secondary pitches, which is why they are still at the levels they are.

 

Using that logic, Alexei may not see a whole bunch of great breaking stuff down there (as he didn't in ST), and he would simply mash the ball (as he did in ST). That is what I see the difference being between the Fields and Ramirez situations.

 

Not to say that Alexei wouldn't benefit more from playing against live pitching everyday- he most definitely would- but as Scenario mentioned, working on hitting major league breaking balls is not the only thing Alexei is trying to learn. Perhaps when he becomes more comfortable in this country and with the language, he will be more apt to learn more getting regular ab's in AAA.

[scenario]

Not to say that Alexei wouldn't benefit more from playing against live pitching everyday- he most definitely would- but as Scenario mentioned, working on hitting major league breaking balls is not the only thing Alexei is trying to learn. Perhaps when he becomes more comfortable in this country and with the language, he will be more apt to learn more getting regular ab's in AAA.

 

Yeah, what really got me thinking about it was the recent article Scott Merkin wrote about Contreras learning English.

 

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...sp&c_id=cws

 

Very interesting article. The challenge of working in a country where you don't speak the native language... that is very different where you came from (like Cuba)... in a highly demanding, competitive, and public job... wow. Stacks the odds against a player being successful.

 

Not something alot of fans think about, I would guess. I didn't really before reading it.

Edited April 14, 2008 by scenario

[TLAK]

If Jerry Owens could maintain the level of play he had in the 2nd half last year he would contribute more wins than Quentin. He has raw speed + base stealing moxie, can run down balls in the OF and is a pain in the butt to pitch against. When the dog days come around the White Sox are going to need what he brings.

 

I like Quentin and Anderson but neither can do what Owens can do. They can do other things better but unless Ramirez were to gain some traction Owen's is the only long term lead off option they have. A real lead off hitter will make Cabrera better and Swisher belongs between Konerko and Dye anyway.

 

That said, until they are sure that Owens is going to play like late last year, there is no sense in shaking things up. Owens will have to get on a roll in Charlotte, and he will need to prove he can play at a high level for a couple weeks in a row, to get brought up. But an Owens who is going good, is a very good option for the White Sox.

[max power]

I disagree. I think carlos would still contribute a ton more. I'd like to see some facts that say otherwise. Right now carlos has 10 RBI in thirty some at bats. Owens had 17 in over three hundred. How is owens speed going to make up for the lack of production? He is on pace to score about twice as many runs as owens in the same number of at bats. Carlos has the edge defensively too. He gets better reads and has a cannon, so he can save more runs that way too.

[scenario]

If Jerry Owens could maintain the level of play he had in the 2nd half last year he would contribute more wins than Quentin. He has raw speed + base stealing moxie, can run down balls in the OF and is a pain in the butt to pitch against. When the dog days come around the White Sox are going to need what he brings.

 

I like Quentin and Anderson but neither can do what Owens can do. They can do other things better but unless Ramirez were to gain some traction Owen's is the only long term lead off option they have. A real lead off hitter will make Cabrera better and Swisher belongs between Konerko and Dye anyway.

 

That said, until they are sure that Owens is going to play like late last year, there is no sense in shaking things up. Owens will have to get on a roll in Charlotte, and he will need to prove he can play at a high level for a couple weeks in a row, to get brought up. But an Owens who is going good, is a very good option for the White Sox.

 

I sure hope Ozzie and Kenny are not listening.

 

I couldn't disagree with you stronger.

 

Swisher is a MUCHHHHH better on-base option than Owens, which makes him a better leadoff option. Not even comparable. Not even a pony race.

 

There is NO research that suggests having a speed guy at the top of the order contributes to wins. NONE. In fact, almost all of the baseball research over the last 20 years suggests the opposite... that most steal attempts are a waste of time that create outs and take runs off the board.

 

Promoting Owens over Quentin would be a baaaad mistake. Quentin is simply a much more talented player. Not sure how anyone could want Owens over Quentin.

 

If you want to promote Owens over Brian, I could live with that. But, frankly, it's a toss-up between those two with Brian being the better defensive option.

Edited April 15, 2008 by scenario

[TLAK]

I sure hope Ozzie and Kenny are not listening.

 

I couldn't disagree with you stronger.

 

Swisher is a MUCHHHHH better on-base option than Owens, which makes him a better leadoff option. Not even comparable. Not even a pony race.

 

There is NO research that suggests having a speed guy at the top of the order contributes to wins. NONE. In fact, almost all of the baseball research over the last 20 years suggests the opposite... that most steal attempts are a waste of time that create outs and take runs off the board.

 

Promoting Owens over Quentin would be a baaaad mistake. Quentin is simply a much more talented player. Not sure how anyone could want Owens over Quentin.

 

If you want to promote Owens over Brian, I could live with that. But, frankly, it's a toss-up between those two with Brian being the better defensive option.

I appreciate your thoughts. But I think the White Sox could have used an Owens type tonight. Put Swisher's on base at bats down the order and perhaps some chaos from Owens in front of Cabrera and they might have scored a couple runs.

 

Its hard to win with a station to station team unless they bash, they only have one way to win right now.

[Balta1701]

Its hard to win with a station to station team unless they bash, they only have one way to win right now.

Actually, I'd say it isn't. The last 3 games, we've given up 2 runs. That's also winning with pitching.

[witesoxfan]

I appreciate your thoughts. But I think the White Sox could have used an Owens type tonight. Put Swisher's on base at bats down the order and perhaps some chaos from Owens in front of Cabrera and they might have scored a couple runs.

 

Its hard to win with a station to station team unless they bash, they only have one way to win right now.

 

See, I disagree with the "only one way to win" completely. The Sox can draw two walks in a row and then get a single; they can hit a homer; they can get a single and put a ball into the gap and then hit a flyball. There are a lot of ways this team can win ballgames. The best part is that if they get down by say 5-6 runs, they still aren't out of a game. If you put Owens in the lineup, I think they lose a bit of that ability.

 

I say you stick with this lineup until it gets sour. Then you can try and make a change. Until then, let them rake and take the occasional dud like tonight.

[Balta1701]

I say you stick with this lineup until it gets sour. Then you can try and make a change. Until then, let them rake and take the occasional dud like tonight.

I agree on holding with the lineup, but there are a couple guys who could use a day in the batting cages without being in the game. Quentin and Thome are starting to come to mind.

[scenario]

I appreciate your thoughts. But I think the White Sox could have used an Owens type tonight. Put Swisher's on base at bats down the order and perhaps some chaos from Owens in front of Cabrera and they might have scored a couple runs.

 

Its hard to win with a station to station team unless they bash, they only have one way to win right now.

 

One of the criticisms of Swisher in Oakland was his inability to hit with guys on base.

 

In fact, his career BA RISP = .220.

 

So, his best value to the Sox is probably at leadoff, where he can play to his strength... getting on-base via walks. (He was one of the leaders in the AL last year in walks.)

[Jeremy]

I think Owens should stay in AAA not because the team's playing well, but because he's not that good.