Crede

[WCSox]

WCSox, you've mentioned a couple of time Fields can play RF. What makes you think that? Has he ever played there?

 

Anybody with the arm and athleticism to play 3B and the ability to play LF at a reasonable level can play RF.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Anybody with the arm and athleticism to play 3B and the ability to play LF at a reasonable level can play RF.

I think that's a bit of a leap. He may, or may not, be able to do that. Perfect example: Pablo Ozuna. He plays a reasonably good 3B, and 2B for that matter. But he's a pretty bad outfielder. Fields has a better arm than Pablo of course, but as far as manning the position goes, the translation cannot be automatically assumed to be successful.

 

[Leonard Zelig]

Anybody with the arm and athleticism to play 3B and the ability to play LF at a reasonable level can play RF.

 

I think Fields in RF would be a nightmare. He may be able to learn the position, but I think it would be a long and painful transition.

[WCSox]

I think that's a bit of a leap. He may, or may not, be able to do that. Perfect example: Pablo Ozuna. He plays a reasonably good 3B, and 2B for that matter. But he's a pretty bad outfielder. Fields has a better arm than Pablo of course, but as far as manning the position goes, the translation cannot be automatically assumed to be successful.

 

Sure, but Fields has already shown that he can play LF (and he'd play it better if he'd get more time there). He's not slow and he doesn't seem to have any serious depth perception issues, so the only thing that could keep him from playing the other corner OF position would be his arm. And as a 3B and former QB, that shouldn't be a problem, either.

 

[lostfan]

I think Fields in RF would be a nightmare.

Oh god, wouldn't it. I don't even want him at LF (with this surplus of OFs we currently have) let alone trying to learn RF, at the age of 26.

[lostfan]

Quentin a 25-30 HR hitter? Where's your evidence for that?

Carlos Quentin was/is a five-tool prospect who has shown plenty of power potential in the major leagues. It's not a stretch at all to say that. Once he's fully healthy I, like many people, could see him hitting between 3rd and 5th in this lineup by 2010 as the eventual replacement for Dye.

[WCSox]

Oh god, wouldn't it. I don't even want him at LF (with this surplus of OFs we currently have) let alone trying to learn RF, at the age of 26.

 

I don't believe that Fields got time at any OF position in the minors.

 

[lostfan]

I don't believe that Fields got time at any OF position in the minors.

All the more reason to not want him learning the job on the fly in the majors. I could see if he was 20, 21, or if he was just completely awful defensively like Ryan Braun. But in baseball terms he's pretty old.

[WCSox]

Carlos Quentin was/is a five-tool prospect who has shown plenty of power potential in the major leagues. It's not a stretch at all to say that. Once he's fully healthy I, like many people, could see him hitting between 3rd and 5th in this lineup by 2010 as the eventual replacement for Dye.

 

Carlos Quentin has done crap in 2+ years in the majors and isn't a lock to live up to the expectations. You might want to wait for him to play a full season at a reasonably high level before anointing him as a middle-of-the-lineup replacement for Dye.

 

[lostfan]

Carlos Quentin has done crap in 2+ years in the majors and isn't a lock to live up to the expectations. You might want to wait for him to play a full season at a reasonably high level before anointing him as a middle-of-the-lineup replacement for Dye.

I didn't "anoint" him as anything. I said I could see it, and what he could potentially be.

 

To look at his batting average without any consideration of circumstances and say "he hasn't done crap" is a little extreme and unfair though (mind you, I was saying the same thing about him needing to prove he can play before the season started, against all the hyperbole and outrageous expectations for Quentin and Fields)

Edited April 16, 2008 by lostfan

[WCSox]

All the more reason to not want him learning the job on the fly in the majors. I could see if he was 20, 21, or if he was just completely awful defensively like Ryan Braun. But in baseball terms he's pretty old.

 

No, in baseball terms he's entering the prime of his career. And there's no reason that he can't learn to play an outfield position in his mid-20's. Chipper Jones didn't have a problem making that transition at age 30.

 

 

[WCSox]

I didn't "anoint" him as anything. I said I could see it, and what he could potentially be.

 

To look at his batting average without any consideration of circumstances and say "he hasn't done crap" is a little extreme and unfair though (mind you, I was saying the same thing about him needing to prove he can play before the season started, against all the hyperbole and outrageous expectations for Quentin and Fields)

 

Basing an argument on "potential" is pretty silly. Rocco Baldelli and Joe Borchard had a lot of potential as well.

 

I like Quentin and think that he may be a really good player one day. But I wouldn't count on him to be valuable over the long-term just yet.

 

Edited April 16, 2008 by WCSox

[lostfan]

Basing an argument on "potential" is pretty silly. Rocco Baldellia and Joe Borchard had a lot of potential as well.

lol what is the argument? I'm not even making one.

 

Your argument seems to be that it's ridiculous to say that a guy who has shown tons of power potential (despite being held back by injuries) could hit 25-30 homers, if for no other reason than he hasn't done it yet, and I replied saying he has the tools, he's shown the ability to use them, and it isn't that ridiculous to think he could do that. I'm not even saying anything controversial.

 

I could see if I was saying Brian Anderson could hit 20-25 homers based on his talent or Jerry Owens could start playing like Ichiro.

Edited April 16, 2008 by lostfan

[WCSox]

Your argument seems to be that it's ridiculous to say that a guy who has shown tons of power potential (despite being held back by injuries) could hit 25-30 homers, if for no other reason than he hasn't done it yet, and I replied saying he has the tools, he's shown the ability to use them, and it isn't that ridiculous to think he could do that. I'm not even saying anything controversial.

 

No, it's ridiculous to COUNT ON that. That's basically what Shack did in his post.

 

[lostfan]

No, it's ridiculous to COUNT ON that. That's basically what Shack did in his post.

If that's the case, then I agree in principle. But let's just say I (like you) have a strong feeling about Quentin.

[WCSox]

If that's the case, then I agree in principle. But let's just say I (like you) have a strong feeling about Quentin.

 

Fair enough. The fact that the D-backs parted ways with him so quickly is a red flag, IMO, but I'm really interested to see how he'll do over the course of a full season. So far, I'm impressed.

 

[jackie hayes]

Fair enough. The fact that the D-backs parted ways with him so quickly is a red flag, IMO, but I'm really interested to see how he'll do over the course of a full season. So far, I'm impressed.

The Dbacks of is really loaded, though. That really doesn't worry me much.

[thedoctor]

if crede keeps up his current pace, no way kw deals him this year, nor should he. with the division suddenly looking more winnable today than it did two weeks ago, you need a guy like crede if for no other reason than his defense saves runs. i think many would agree this team's greatest question marks lie in its starting rotation, and with that in mind it pays to have a defensively superb team, which we have right now.

 

fields, who is an outstanding prospect, is not great defensively. not horrid, but not near crede's level of play in the field. few are. i do think he is our starting third baseman on opening day next year, regardless of what happens with crede this year. but in the interim, particularly if we remain in the race (i expect this) i don't see a scenario where crede is dealt this season. that would run contrary to the win-now approach williams has taken.

[Balta1701]

if crede keeps up his current pace, no way kw deals him this year, nor should he. with the division suddenly looking more winnable today than it did two weeks ago, you need a guy like crede if for no other reason than his defense saves runs. i think many would agree this team's greatest question marks lie in its starting rotation, and with that in mind it pays to have a defensively superb team, which we have right now.

 

fields, who is an outstanding prospect, is not great defensively. not horrid, but not near crede's level of play in the field. few are. i do think he is our starting third baseman on opening day next year, regardless of what happens with crede this year. but in the interim, particularly if we remain in the race (i expect this) i don't see a scenario where crede is dealt this season. that would run contrary to the win-now approach williams has taken.

And this is the right path.

 

If the team stays in contention, Crede stays healthy, and keeps performing at a reasonable rate, there's really nothing lost to this team to give Josh another year in the minors at 3rd base. The team should then make an effort to sign Joe to a reasonable deal this offseason, but shouldn't push it too much given Crede's injury concerns, and should take him back only at a number that works for the team. If Joe walks, then we've got Josh ready to step in, if somehow Joe signs for a reasonable deal, then we can deal or move Josh and be perfectly happy with a reasonably signed Crede.

[NorthSideSox72]

And this is the right path.

 

If the team stays in contention, Crede stays healthy, and keeps performing at a reasonable rate, there's really nothing lost to this team to give Josh another year in the minors at 3rd base. The team should then make an effort to sign Joe to a reasonable deal this offseason, but shouldn't push it too much given Crede's injury concerns, and should take him back only at a number that works for the team. If Joe walks, then we've got Josh ready to step in, if somehow Joe signs for a reasonable deal, then we can deal or move Josh and be perfectly happy with a reasonably signed Crede.

Agree.

 

[WCSox]

And this is the right path.

 

If the team stays in contention, Crede stays healthy, and keeps performing at a reasonable rate, there's really nothing lost to this team to give Josh another year in the minors at 3rd base. The team should then make an effort to sign Joe to a reasonable deal this offseason, but shouldn't push it too much given Crede's injury concerns, and should take him back only at a number that works for the team. If Joe walks, then we've got Josh ready to step in, if somehow Joe signs for a reasonable deal, then we can deal or move Josh and be perfectly happy with a reasonably signed Crede.

 

Agreed. If the Sox are still in contention on July 31st and Kenny moved Crede, it would be disastrous. It'd be White Flag II.

 

[Kyyle23]

Fair enough. The fact that the D-backs parted ways with him so quickly is a red flag, IMO, but I'm really interested to see how he'll do over the course of a full season. So far, I'm impressed.

 

They didnt part with him so quickly. Quentin was untouchable in that organization for 3 years, the only reason he was available this year was because their outfield is now loaded.

 

I agree that the injury problem with him is worrisome, but Quentin tore up the minor leagues until he had nothing left to prove. When Borchard was in the minors, he didnt have anywhere near the numbers Carlos did.

[jackie hayes]

if crede keeps up his current pace, no way kw deals him this year, nor should he. with the division suddenly looking more winnable today than it did two weeks ago, you need a guy like crede if for no other reason than his defense saves runs. i think many would agree this team's greatest question marks lie in its starting rotation, and with that in mind it pays to have a defensively superb team, which we have right now.

 

fields, who is an outstanding prospect, is not great defensively. not horrid, but not near crede's level of play in the field. few are. i do think he is our starting third baseman on opening day next year, regardless of what happens with crede this year. but in the interim, particularly if we remain in the race (i expect this) i don't see a scenario where crede is dealt this season. that would run contrary to the win-now approach williams has taken.

Crede did not suddenly become Miguel Cabrera. His current pace is not even close to sustainable.

[thedoctor]

Crede did not suddenly become Miguel Cabrera. His current pace is not even close to sustainable.

 

well, if you want to quibble with semantics fine. that wasn't my intent. i think you understand what i mean.

[hi8is]

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edit: silly.

Edited April 16, 2008 by hi8is