Dusty Baker comment

[Controlled Chaos]

"Hopefully, especially, on Jackie Robinson Day, Baker was booed for the quality of his managing and not the color of his skin."

 

Man I don't know where to put this...I oringially had it in the Cubs thread, cause it's Cubs related and hardly anyone comes in the Buster anymore, but it would prolly get moved here anyway. I don't want to stir up a whole race discussion and get everyone's panties in a bunch. I just think the comment was uncalled for. I have a few friends that are Cub fans and God knows the man has plenty to be booed on. I have never heard anyone mention the color of his skin except for him. It was all In Dusty We Trusty when he was hired. The hire was loved by every Cub fan I know. Yeah things went bad and the Cubs have plenty of reasons to boo him, but they didn't all become racists all of a sudden.

 

Article

 

 

[whitesoxfan101]

Up until the second Cubs collapse under him in September of 2004, Cubs fans LOVED Baker as much as I've ever seen anybody love any manager. The fact that he was beloved for nearly half his tenure, only to see his personality fall off as his teams play fell off in the 2nd half of his tenure, tells you that it wasn't race that led to the hatred, it was performance. For once, I'll take Cubs fans side and say that their dislike of Dusty was exclusively performance based in accordance with expectations. If the Cubs collapse and miss the playoffs this year, and then go 71-91 next year, Lou won't be too popular either.

Edited April 16, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[rowandrules83]

Can it be based on both race and performance? As noted, fans loved him when things were going good. But when the Cubs began to struggle, I remember reading stories about Baker having racist things said to him (sorry, I don't have a link). Players like LaTroy Hawkins also made similar statements about things said when they struggle. Basically, I guess I'm saying that when the Cubs are doing great, Cubs fans could care less about the color of the players' skin. But when things start going to hell, some, not most or all fans, resort to ignorant ways of showing their displeasure.

[NorthSideSox72]

"Hopefully, especially, on Jackie Robinson Day, Baker was booed for the quality of his managing and not the color of his skin."

 

Man I don't know where to put this...I oringially had it in the Cubs thread, cause it's Cubs related and hardly anyone comes in the Buster anymore, but it would prolly get moved here anyway. I don't want to stir up a whole race discussion and get everyone's panties in a bunch. I just think the comment was uncalled for. I have a few friends that are Cub fans and God knows the man has plenty to be booed on. I have never heard anyone mention the color of his skin except for him. It was all In Dusty We Trusty when he was hired. The hire was loved by every Cub fan I know. Yeah things went bad and the Cubs have plenty of reasons to boo him, but they didn't all become racists all of a sudden.

 

Article

Reading it in context, I agree. It was an awkward, pointless statement that could only serve to create problems that don't seem to exist. Seriously, Baker was cheered or booed for the same reasons every other manager is cheered or booed - winning and losing.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

LaTroy Hawkins was a douchebag of a person who pitched like garbage his entire time with the Cubs after dominating in Minnesota. Now part of the problem was he was wrongly being used as a closer by Baker the majority of the time, but it's hard for me to ever cry race (something I will do if I see it that way), when the parties involved in Hawkins and Baker did their jobs horribly.

 

If your going to go in that direction, let's be fair and wonder if Sox fans were being racist when we hated Jerry Manuel so much as he was fired. That's obviously not true, but if your going to ask the question about Baker the same question has to be asked about a man who once won AL manager of the year.

Edited April 16, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[rowandrules83]

LaTroy Hawkins was a douchebag of a person who pitched like garbage his entire time with the Cubs after dominating in Minnesota. Now part of the problem was he was wrongly being used as a closer by Baker the majority of the time, but it's hard for me to ever cry race (something I will do if I see it that way), when the parties involved in Hawkins and Baker did their jobs horribly.

 

If your going to go in that direction, let's be fair and wonder if Sox fans were being racist when we hated Jerry Manuel so much as he was fired. That's obviously not true, but if your going to ask the question about Baker the same question has to be asked about a man who once won AL manager of the year.

I was specifically referring to stories I read about Hawkins and Baker saying there were specific racist things both said and written to Hawkins specifically. I think some fans used the frustration with Hawkins' crappiness and expressed it in a terrible way.

 

While I don't recall ever hearing a story about Manuel and any racism toward him, you do raise a valid point. One can't help but wonder what would happen if Ozzie, KW, or Dye completely started to suck at their job, how mature the reaction would be. Would it stick to the fact that they just sucked, or would it cross an ignorant line? While I'd like to think we would be more mature than that, there would likely be a few morons who would resort to that.

 

Here's the link to the story about hate mail:

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...SPGC8D128O1.DTL

 

EDIT: My apologies, I didn't know that was added to this forum. I just acknowledged it.

Edited April 16, 2008 by rowandrules83

[NorthSideSox72]

I was specifically referring to stories I read about Hawkins and Baker saying there were specific racist things both said and written to Hawkins specifically. I think some fans used the frustration with Hawkins' crappiness and expressed it in a terrible way.

 

While I don't recall ever hearing a story about Manuel and any racism toward him, you do raise a valid point. One can't help but wonder what would happen if Ozzie, KW, or Dye completely started to suck at their job, how mature the reaction would be. Would it stick to the fact that they just sucked, or would it cross an ignorant line? While I'd like to think we would be more mature than that, there would likely be a few morons who would resort to that.

 

Here's the link to the story about hate mail:

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...SPGC8D128O1.DTL

rowandrules83-

 

Please read and reply to the MUST READ thread at the top of this forum. This is required before posting in the Buster.

 

Note: you haven't done anything wrong - this is just a requirement for everyone who posts here.

 

[rowandrules83]

rowandrules83-

 

Please read and reply to the MUST READ thread at the top of this forum. This is required before posting in the Buster.

 

Note: you haven't done anything wrong - this is just a requirement for everyone who posts here.

 

Ok thanks, I posted in that thread

[NorthSideSox72]

Ok thanks, I posted in that thread

Cool, thank you.

 

[Controlled Chaos]

I was specifically referring to stories I read about Hawkins and Baker saying there were specific racist things both said and written to Hawkins specifically. I think some fans used the frustration with Hawkins' crappiness and expressed it in a terrible way.

 

While I don't recall ever hearing a story about Manuel and any racism toward him, you do raise a valid point. One can't help but wonder what would happen if Ozzie, KW, or Dye completely started to suck at their job, how mature the reaction would be. Would it stick to the fact that they just sucked, or would it cross an ignorant line? While I'd like to think we would be more mature than that, there would likely be a few morons who would resort to that.

 

Here's the link to the story about hate mail:

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...SPGC8D128O1.DTL

 

EDIT: My apologies, I didn't know that was added to this forum. I just acknowledged it.

I think there would definitely be morons who would cross the line. There always are. I'm sure every manager deals with it. Yeah there are some wackos....I'm sure Guillen gets racist crap sent to him too....I'm sure Dye has.... All athletes/managers/owners have to deal with ignorant fans. I'm sure Reinsdorf has received his share of mail with Jewish epithets . There are assholes in this world...no doubting it....Some bring ignorant name calling...some bring threats and others bring race. Imrem alluding to it in this article, without referencing anything by the way, is painting a lot of Cub fans with a broad brush. It just seemed misplaced to me.

 

 

Found this tidbit from the normally useless Mariotti from back then.....

 

The first time Dusty Baker opened his mailbag and made a racist letter public, I was all ears. The second time Dusty Baker opened his mailbag and made a racist letter public, I wondered what he was suggesting. The third time Dusty Baker opened his mailbag and made a racist letter public -- which happened the other day, only weeks before his contract expires -- I grasped his agenda.

 

He wants the world to think bigotry is a regular occupational hazard of Cubdom, that he's fighting obstacles much uglier than a billy goat and 98 years of futility.

 

To which I say: Dusty, stop using convenient copouts to shroud the real truth -- that you simply haven't been a good manager the last three seasons and don't deserve to have your contract extended.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

I think there would definitely be morons who would cross the line. There always are. I'm sure every manager deals with it. Yeah there are some wackos....I'm sure Guillen gets racist crap sent to him too....I'm sure Dye has.... All athletes/managers/owners have to deal with ignorant fans. I'm sure Reinsdorf has received his share of mail with Jewish epithets . There are assholes in this world...no doubting it....Some bring ignorant name calling...some bring threats and others bring race. Imrem alluding to it in this article, without referencing anything by the way, is painting a lot of Cub fans with a broad brush. It just seemed misplaced to me.

 

 

Found this tidbit from the normally useless Mariotti from back then.....

 

The first time Dusty Baker opened his mailbag and made a racist letter public, I was all ears. The second time Dusty Baker opened his mailbag and made a racist letter public, I wondered what he was suggesting. The third time Dusty Baker opened his mailbag and made a racist letter public -- which happened the other day, only weeks before his contract expires -- I grasped his agenda.

 

He wants the world to think bigotry is a regular occupational hazard of Cubdom, that he's fighting obstacles much uglier than a billy goat and 98 years of futility.

 

To which I say: Dusty, stop using convenient copouts to shroud the real truth -- that you simply haven't been a good manager the last three seasons and don't deserve to have your contract extended.

 

This from the guy who uses his convenient fued with Sox front office to fill his columns up on a daily basis. Hypocrasy knows no end with Kotex-boy. Face it, you haven't been a good columnist that I have ever seen, and you deserve to be fired.

 

[lostfan]

This from the guy who uses his convenient fued with Sox front office to fill his columns up on a daily basis. Hypocrasy knows no end with Kotex-boy. Face it, you haven't been a good columnist that I have ever seen, and you deserve to be fired.

I would say that Mariotti does his job very well, as long as he sells papers for the Sun-Times and people talk about his columns, as controversy tends to do. However, I think we can both agree that we hate his "job."

[Texsox]

This from the guy who uses his convenient fued with Sox front office to fill his columns up on a daily basis. Hypocrasy knows no end with Kotex-boy. Face it, you haven't been a good columnist that I have ever seen, and you deserve to be fired.

 

Yet he is the most quoted columnist regarding the Sox.

 

Dusty, here is the booing scorecard:

 

Bigots, racists, etc. about 2% of the crowd, bood because they knew a black guy couldn't be a manger. Sorry, I, along with a lot of other people, wish we could wave a wand and have that disappear. BTW the people who controlled you paycheck and got you hired and fired are not in this group, maybe the next group, or at least you hope they are in the next group.

 

Knowledgeable Cub and baseball fans with understanding of the game, who can rationally analyze your moves and concluded you mismanaged a WS caliber team, 0%, there are none, I said Cub fans.

 

Cub fans, without an attention span beyond you and Bartman, were 98% of the boos.