Frank Thomas Released By The Blue Jays/signed by the A's

[rangercal]

Simple. Sitting on the bench versus playing on the field. The people you see sitting on the bench with the ultra-clean uniforms are called coaches and earn considerably less. The people on the field are players. Coaches earn money by sitting on the bench and thinking, players earn money by being on the field and playing

 

Classic

[Texsox]

I was thinking that if the players definition of earning their money was expanded to mean, doing what is necessary to help the team win, and if that includes not playing, then the Sox owe me a boat load of money. By not playing, I am considerably helping their chances. Hell, Uribe can hit better then me.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I love how the Jays just ate 7 million dollars to offload The Big Skirt.

 

 

2008 contract: 7 million bucks...........

 

Getting rid of a non-producing clubhouse cancer.................PRICELESS

 

 

Edited April 21, 2008 by NUKE

[rangercal]

I love how the Jays just ate 7 million dollars to offload The Big Skirt.

 

 

2008 contract: 7 million bucks...........

 

Getting rid of a non-producing clubhouse cancer.................PRICELESS

 

 

 

without the string of HRS from the "non-producing clubhouse cancer" in 2005 that may have resulted in a couple less wins and may have been enough for Cleveland to catch us.

 

 

PS. Nice Racist Avatar

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

without the string of HRS from the "non-producing clubhouse cancer" in 2005 that may have resulted in a couple less wins and may have been enough for Cleveland to catch us.

 

 

PS. Nice Racist Avatar

 

 

So glad you approve. I just spent a year plus trading gunfire with them.

[Texsox]

So glad you approve. I just spent a year plus trading gunfire with them.

 

So the US military bans Muslims from serving?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

So the US military bans Muslims from serving?

 

 

No, but there aren't many.

[Dick Allen]

I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but does anyone definitively know if Thomas signs with someone else and reaches his plate appearances figure, does the option still kick in with Toronto on the hook for $10 million next year minus the minimum some other team would give him?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but does anyone definitively know if Thomas signs with someone else and reaches his plate appearances figure, does the option still kick in with Toronto on the hook for $10 million next year minus the minimum some other team would give him?

 

 

I doubt it. The article I read in the Sun Times stated that Toronto was off the hook for that 10 mil completely. I could totally see him signing with Seattle like was mentioned a few times around here, though.

[Dick Allen]

Simple. Sitting on the bench versus playing on the field. The people you see sitting on the bench with the ultra-clean uniforms are called coaches and earn considerably less. The people on the field are players. Coaches earn money by sitting on the bench and thinking, players earn money by being on the field and playing. My comment was Frank should want to be on the field, breaking through his slow start, instead of adopting an attitude of fine, pay me to sit on the bench and speed eatin' sunflower seeds, soaking up rays.

I've never said there was anything wrong with wanting to play. He hasn't performed and went public saying the organization was trying to screw him out of his option. He's hitting .167. Last year he hit .223 in April and May. If history repeats itself, the Blue Jays may dig themselves too big of hole, plus there's the fact he is a year older, and he has an option with a huge price tag on it. They told him he would play 2 or 3 times a week, and its hard for me to see if he starting knocking the ball around he still would be glued to the bench. Basically he was told he had to perform to play which Frank cannot accept. He feels because he is Frank Thomas he is entitled to be in the line-up no matter how bad he is playing and is entitled to his $10 million option. Considering this board took Joe Crede to be worthless in about 40 spring training ABs, Juan Uribe was deemed unable to play 2B defensively when he committed an error the first or second game, Jose Contreras a guy who only 2 years ago won 17 consecutive decisions has been deemed worthless after his first start, it really is amazing 60 ABs and an $8 million payout with the opportunity to make his own deal should have Frank or his fans upset.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Dick Allen

[Steve9347]

I doubt it. The article I read in the Sun Times stated that Toronto was off the hook for that 10 mil completely. I could totally see him signing with Seattle like was mentioned a few times around here, though.

He signs with Seattle, Seattle offloads Vidro to us to get some quality at bats at 2B. He and O-Cab have a history turning the DP together. Sure, he gets injured and is a shell of his former self, but Vidro would be way better than Ramirez this year and certainly Uribe.

 

Just an idea.

[rangercal]

He signs with Seattle, Seattle offloads Vidro to us to get some quality at bats at 2B. He and O-Cab have a history turning the DP together. Sure, he gets injured and is a shell of his former self, but Vidro would be way better than Ramirez this year and certainly Uribe.

 

Just an idea.

I love the idea if Seattle throws in cash

[Steve9347]

I love the idea if Seattle throws in cash

How could you not? Vidro and O-Cab have history, Vidro is still a very solid hitter. 8.5 mill salary is a lot to take on, but maybe they take Uribe back and cut their owed amount in half?

 

Just thoughts.

[WCSox]

I say $5 mil because the option is for $10 mil. So they could have paid him $10 mil more for two years of production.

 

OK, I see what you're saying.

 

It may not just be his numbers. It may be that they think his swing is different, that he's slowed down. Or it may be his mouth.

 

More likely the latter. Nobody can use the first 60 at-bats of the season to determine a player's performance over the rest of the season. But if it were Frank's mouth, I don't see why the Jays didn't call him on it publicly. It certainly wouldn't be the first time, and therefore it would be a lot more believable than the excuse that they gave.

 

Or it could simply be that they think the team is better with Matt Stairs taking those abs with someone else (Adam Lind, probably) taking Stairs's abs AND his innings in the field. (As has already been pointed out by a few people, Stairs was better last year and started this year better).

 

Stairs' numbers last year were barely better than Frank's. His numbers the year before were inferior to what Frank put up in Oakland. Given that Stairs is even older than Frank (by a few months) and that he's basically a washed-up journeyman, I don't see the compelling reason for favoring him over Frank.

 

Actually, I do see the reason: The Jays are only paying Stairs a combined total $3.25 million over '08 and '09. You think that may have had something to do with their decision???

 

But it is a stretch to think that a team that has proven itself more than willing to spend, with its best chance in a long time, would shoot itself in the foot to save a meager $5 mil a year. That just doesn't add up.

 

Again, you're not getting my point. I'm not saying that the Jays are a bunch of cheapskates. They very may well spend the $10 million they're not paying Frank next year on somebody else. (Remember the Sox dumping Carlos Lee's salary prior to the '05 season, and then spending the money saved elsewhere?) Then again, their dumping of Frank for Matt Stairs' paltry contract suggests that they might be curbing their wild spending.

 

Edited April 21, 2008 by WCSox

[rangercal]

How could you not? Vidro and O-Cab have history, Vidro is still a very solid hitter. 8.5 mill salary is a lot to take on, but maybe they take Uribe back and cut their owed amount in half?

 

Just thoughts.

 

If they would take Uribe straight up for Vidro that would be a good deal.

[Steve9347]

If they would take Uribe straight up for Vidro that would be a good deal.

I'd honestly add like a B or C spect to get it done if I were Kenny. I'm not going to doubt him though, I'm sure if Seattle signs Thomas, KW will look into Vidro's ability to field and his availability.

 

It's an interesting thought though.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

Vidro has played a grand total of 10 games at second base the last two years, no thanks.

[rangercal]

It's an interesting thought though.

 

Yeah, it is. It definitely makes sense.

[rangercal]

Vidro has played a grand total of 10 games at second base the last two years, no thanks.

 

And How many has Ramirez and Uribe played?

[jackie hayes]

OK, I see what you're saying.

 

 

 

More likely the latter. Nobody can use the first 60 at-bats of the season to determine a player's performance over the rest of the season. But if it were Frank's mouth, I don't see why the Jays didn't call him on it publicly. It certainly wouldn't be the first time, and therefore it would be a lot more believable than the excuse that they gave.

 

 

 

Stairs' numbers last year were barely better than Frank's. His numbers the year before were inferior to what Frank put up in Oakland. Given that Stairs is even older than Frank (by a few months) and that he's basically a washed-up journeyman, I don't see the compelling reason for favoring him over Frank.

 

Actually, I do see the reason: The Jays are only paying Stairs a combined total $3.25 million over '08 and '09. You think that may have had something to do with their decision???

 

 

 

Again, you're not getting my point. I'm not saying that the Jays are a bunch of cheapskates. They very may well spend the $10 million they're not paying Frank next year on somebody else. (Remember the Sox dumping Carlos Lee's salary prior to the '05 season, and then spending the money saved elsewhere?) Then again, their dumping of Frank for Matt Stairs' paltry contract suggests that they might be curbing their wild spending.

No, I do get your point. You aren't saying they're cheap, but you are saying that they know they won't win this year, so they're cutting back (and in the process, hurting their chances to win now) to make a push later. But that makes no sense. Everything they've been doing is actually paying off. Rios has developed into an excellent player. Burnett has actually pitched quite well, he's healthy (well, mostly -- that nail thing), and that contract turned out to be good value with the way sp contracts have gone. McGowan and Marcum have both developed very well. Ryan's finally back, and Halladay doesn't have too many great years left.

 

Just this offseason, they swapped Glaus for Rolen, when Rolen had 3 years (big years) left on his deal. But now, the season begins, they're playing well, and suddenly Ricciardi changes his mind completely and decides that it'll never work, let's plan for the future? It's just not a reasonable story. Everything they've done for years has been building to this point and shows that they want to win now.

 

Again, I'm not saying they made the right choice. But to say they're knowingly hurting their chances just to slash such a small amount of payroll doesn't fit with anything that team has been doing for years, all the way up to the start of the season.

Edited April 21, 2008 by jackie hayes

[WCSox]

No, I do get your point. You aren't saying they're cheap, but you are saying that they know they won't win this year, so they're cutting back (and in the process, hurting their chances to win now) to make a push later. But that makes no sense. Everything they've been doing is actually paying off. Rios has developed into an excellent player. Burnett has actually pitched quite well, he's healthy (well, mostly -- that nail thing), and that contract turned out to be good value with the way sp contracts have gone. McGowan and Marcum have both developed very well. Ryan's finally back, and Halladay doesn't have too many great years left.

 

Just this offseason, they swapped Glaus for Rolen, when Rolen had 3 years (big years) left on his deal. But now, the season begins, they're playing well, and suddenly Ricciardi changes his mind completely and decides that it'll never work, let's plan for the future? It's just not a reasonable story. Everything they've done for years has been building to this point and shows that they want to win now.

 

Again, I'm not saying they made the right choice. But to say they're knowingly hurting their chances just to slash such a small amount of payroll doesn't fit with anything that team has been doing for years, all the way up to the start of the season.

 

I'm not sure how over-paying for Burnett and Ryan, and then dealing for an aging and constantly-injured Rolen, who is under contract for two more years and $24 million more than Glaus has "paid off." I don't think that Rolen has even played yet this year.

 

Maybe they're not cutting back to make a pusher later. Who knows. But it's pretty obvious that they dumped Frank and kept Stairs for purely financial reasons, and that the "performance" excuse was a massive load of crap. If I had to guess, I'd think that they now realize how stupid they were to offer so much money to players who can't stay healthy and want to create some more financial flexibility next year.

 

[Steve9347]

And How many has Ramirez and Uribe played?

AJ 1, random dude 0

[jackie hayes]

I'm not sure how over-paying for Burnett and Ryan, and then dealing for an aging and constantly-injured Rolen, who is under contract for two more years and $24 million more than Glaus has "paid off." I don't think that Rolen has even played yet this year.

 

Maybe they're not cutting back to make a pusher later. Who knows. But it's pretty obvious that they dumped Frank and kept Stairs for purely financial reasons, and that the "performance" excuse was a massive load of crap. If I had to guess, I'd think that they now realize how stupid they were to offer so much money to players who can't stay healthy and want to create some more financial flexibility next year.

My point with the Glaus-Rolen trade was that they were still spending money, making big commitments, just this offseason. It's strange that they'd be trying to cut salary for the future and still take on such a big contract (when they could have just let Glaus walk after this year). Burnett's deal really isn't that bad in hindsight, and the point with Ryan is that -- even though I still think they overpaid -- they will have him this year. In other words, they're approaching full strength.

 

It's obvious to you that they dumped him for money, it's not so obvious to me. I wouldn't have done it, but I don't believe that was the only motivation.

[WCSox]

My point with the Glaus-Rolen trade was that they were still spending money, making big commitments, just this offseason. It's strange that they'd be trying to cut salary for the future and still take on such a big contract (when they could have just let Glaus walk after this year).

 

No, it's not strange at all. You can't just keep spending, spending, and spending on high-priced veterans and free agents without dumping SOME salary at some point. Dumping an aging player doesn't necessarily mean that you're about to hold a firesale. It's simply operating within a budget. The Jays aren't exactly the Yankees or Red Sox in terms of financial resources, yet their payroll this year is $97 million. Do you honestly think that they can sustain that payroll while mired in third place in a city in Canada wit attendance in the bottom half of the league over each of the past few years?

 

The fact that they still owe Rolen over $30 million through 2010 and that he hasn't had a single major-league at-bat for them yet may have been a wake-up call. He and Frank ALONE would've cost them $22 million next year. Would you want two declining/injury-prone players taking up that much of your payroll? I sure wouldn't.

Edited April 21, 2008 by WCSox

[Harry Chappas]

Rolen will be their DH for the next three years thus the reasoning why Frank was let go.