2B Thoughts

[AddisonStSox]

So was iguchi last year. Not sure I trust that noise.

 

Bingo, I pay no attention to that nonsense.

 

What I am finding hilarious is people are outraged at the thought of plugging Ramirez at 2B this season and letting him take his lumps defensively--a fine alternative given just how terrible Juan Uribe is offensively--but, are fine with him taking over at SS in 2009.

 

That's just not how it works. I've become a believer that having a sound defensive SS helps a ballclub dramatically over the course of a season--in fact, it may affect the outcome of 4 or 5 games during the course of the year. So, to think you can send Ramirez down to Charlotte and teach him to play a Gold Glove SS in one season, you are probably mistaken. However, plugging him in at 2B, a position that is much easier to master and learn (even on the fly), seems to make a lot of sense for both 2008 and beyond...Richar is an extremely limited ballplayer.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Im not so sure Alexei is an upgrade offensively.

 

Bingo....certainly not enough to make up for the freaking kickass dp duo of ocab and juanie. I really don't like Juan much as a player...i think he's out of shape, plays selfishly, and doesn't listen to his coaches...but the man is a true pleasure to watch in the field. That cannon of his gets my heart pumping when he goes to gun someone down.

 

[BobDylan]

I contend that if given the same number of ABs, Ramirez's offensive production will be equal to or greater than that of Uribe--ditto for the course of an entire season.

 

Hence, my question, is the difference in defensive ability so great that it merits the continued start of Uribe at 2B over the organization's other internal options?

 

In my estimation, it is not.

 

(For the record, Williams went on record as saying they were looking to lock-up Cabrera with a long-term extension. This all rests on the presupposition that Cabrera will be the SS for 2008 and beyond. It may have been posturing on the part of Williams. In any event, Uribe should not figure into this team's (or, any other team, for that matter) long-term plans.)

 

Yes. There's only one player within the "internal organization" that deserves a serious look to start over Uribe right now. Richar. Uribe might be a joke at the plate, but he's no bigger a joke than Ramirez. However long it takes Alexei to catch up to MLB pitching, that's months of bad defense... and probably a worse offensive output.

 

Somebody already said it in the thread; the Sox success does not depend on what Juan Uribe does at the dish. If it did, there'd be plenty of other things to b**** about. Uribe is a top tier SS playing 2B. There aren't any teams that can say they have that. The starting rotation is pretty fragile with Danks, Floyd and Contreras. I wouldn't say Uribe's glove is a commodity right now. It's a necessity. Whatever they get out of him at the plate, consider it a bonus.

[BearSox]

I think it's stupid that Ramirez is not down at Charlotte playing SS everyday. He has the speed and range to cover a lot of ground, and his arm is better than Uribe's (but not nearly as quick with the release like Juan is). He needs to work on his glovework though, and he can't do that by switching between positions every other day. Plus, he needs AB's everyday to get a feel for the slow stuff.

 

Hell, if the org. really thinks he can excel more so in CF than he can at SS, then he should be playing CF everyday for Charlotte. He needs to get some consistent playing time at one position for him to develop, IMO.

[DBAHO]

Furcal would be great, I'd certainly swap him for O-Cab, therefore allowing Swish to hit say in the #2 spot, but he's going to get a big deal in the off-season most likely.

 

But the Sox should have some $$$ to use this off-season with 9.5M in Crede's and Uribe's contracts coming off the books.

[DBAHO]

Yes. There's only one player within the "internal organization" that deserves a serious look to start over Uribe right now. Richar. Uribe might be a joke at the plate, but he's no bigger a joke than Ramirez. However long it takes Alexei to catch up to MLB pitching, that's months of bad defense... and probably a worse offensive output.

 

Somebody already said it in the thread; the Sox success does not depend on what Juan Uribe does at the dish. If it did, there'd be plenty of other things to b**** about. Uribe is a top tier SS playing 2B. There aren't any teams that can say they have that. The starting rotation is pretty fragile with Danks, Floyd and Contreras. I wouldn't say Uribe's glove is a commodity right now. It's a necessity. Whatever they get out of him at the plate, consider it a bonus.

That's why Richar's injury and visa situation was so unfortunate. When he's back though and hitting well enough in Charlotte, if Uribe is still below the Mendoza line, I think they have to make a change there.

 

He's underrated defensively IMHO, with a RZR of .802 last season, which is currently better than the Sox's entire infield.

[Chisoxfn]

I would not be shocked if the Sox had Uribe/Crede/Koneko/Contreras all come off the books at the end of this season. Konerko is the only potential long shot. But I really believe if the Sox have a real strong season they consider resigning Joe, but would be comfortable going with Josh and than spending money to upgrade SS (or resign OC) and would hopefully have faith in Floyd/Danks to the point that they could opt with a different starting pitcher (whether via FA or in-house...ie Egbert/Broadway).

 

They would obviously be taking a chance, but even without Paulie, if you upgrade at other places you could still have a tremendous offense while continuing to make the team younger and put yourself in a good position for an extended run.

 

Again, I'm saying that could happen if things go well this year (ie, make the playoffs because Floyd/Danks pitch pretty strong and have Richar develop with Paulie/Crede having solid seasons but the Sox opting for draft picks with Crede and than swinging Paulie in a deal which enables the club to get younger and more balanced while also clearing up plenty of money to give Bobby Jenks an extension and sign someone like Furcal while also picking up a younger first baseman (thus at that point Buehrle/Vaz/MacDougall/Dotel/Linebrink/Thome/Dye are your only older players and honestly that isn't that bad as only Thome is really really old).

[max power]

The sox have to trade Kong very soon or never because of his 5/10 thing. I highly doubt he even thinks about waiving that. But yeah, uribe and crede, definitely gone. With the way Broadway has been pitching, the count could be too, regardless of what kind of season he has. That would happen especially if Danks and Floyd preform well.

Edited April 22, 2008 by max power

[DBAHO]

With the way Conor Jackson is swinging the bat for the D-Backs, I can't see them being a potential destination for Paulie anymore.

 

And Kotchman has a +.900 OPS so far for the Angels, so he's not regressing by any means so far.

 

So I think it's going to be hard to do a deal there.

 

But I hope now at least KW has seen the value in good young players, and continues to target them (whether it's for the lineup, rotation or the bullpen).

[Chisoxfn]

Cough...Konerko for Kemp, Swisher moves to 1B, Kemp plays CF.

[Kalapse]

Cough...Konerko for Kemp, Swisher moves to 1B, Kemp plays CF.

That really makes no sense from the Dodgers' perspective. I know Ned Colletti has a history of favoring vets over youth but James Loney might be a more productive player than Paul Konerko right now at the age of 24 and Matt Kemp should be untouchable (and likely is.)

[Chisoxfn]

That really makes no sense from the Dodgers' perspective. I know Ned Colletti has a history of favoring vets over youth but James Loney might be a more productive player than Paul Konerko right now at the age of 24 and Matt Kemp should be untouchable (and likely is.)

Loney is better than Paulie, but the Dodgers could slide Loney to the OF with Ethier and Jones and go with Konerko. Colletti has a preference for veterans and is still looking for the extra pop in the lineup that the Dodgers need. Plus, Kemp has had a bit of a falling out recently (he obviously had a falling out last year with some in the organization as well, although it was related to Kent who is pretty much thought of poorly (regarding clubhouse interactions) around most of baseball). Basically put, I completely agree with you that this might not be the fairest trade idea.

 

Hell, if the Sox could sign Crede I would also contemplate moving Fields for Kemp (again, this would be a poor value deal for the Dodgers as Kemp is a better prospect but Fields fills a bigger need position). I think there are some match-ups between the two teams to make a deal that could help both teams in the short and long-term. The question is what other pieces go because I completely agree Kemp is more valuable than either Fields or Paulie straight up. That said there is something to be said for a player needing a change of scenario and it hasn't gotten near that bad with Kemp but there are at least a few in the org that have soured on him (not relating to performance of course).

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

With the way Conor Jackson is swinging the bat for the D-Backs, I can't see them being a potential destination for Paulie anymore.

 

And Kotchman has a +.900 OPS so far for the Angels, so he's not regressing by any means so far.

 

So I think it's going to be hard to do a deal there.

 

But I hope now at least KW has seen the value in good young players, and continues to target them (whether it's for the lineup, rotation or the bullpen).

The Angels could make some sense for Paulie if the Sox did want to move him. I believe they have Garrett Anderson coming off the books after this year, which will allow them to move GMJ into the OF and open up the DH spot. Of course Vladdy needs some DH time too, but I doubt the Angels want to take his arm out of their OF permanently.

 

The Blue Jays and Mariners could make sense as well. The Royals would be a good fit if they weren't in the division. While KW has dealt with KC before, the Royals are on the upswing and probably too close to contention IMO to deal a big bat their way. If the Sox did decide to move Paulie there would definitely be suitors.

[DBAHO]

I would imagine to give up Kemp, the Dodgers would want someone to take on Pierre's contract. Depends on Torre's and Colletti's preference for veterans I guess.

 

Would anyone be interested in Adam Lind for Konerko?

 

Mariners would probably go after Thomas first, and would probably rather a LHH DH.

 

Anaheim just has a lot at the 1B/OF spots. If they acquired Konerko, really no place for the likes of Willits, Rivera and Morales etc.

 

[Melissa1334]

The sox have to trade Kong very soon or never because of his 5/10 thing. I highly doubt he even thinks about waiving that. But yeah, uribe and crede, definitely gone. With the way Broadway has been pitching, the count could be too, regardless of what kind of season he has. That would happen especially if Danks and Floyd preform well.

who would want jose? even if there are some teams that would want him, we wouldnt get too much and they would want us to eat most of the contract

[max power]

No they wouldn't get too much for him. I disagree with the rest. One year ten million isn't a bad contract. I don't think the sox would eat any of it if we were to trade him. Right now he is pitching fairly well, even last night he was decent and would have had a good line if dotel didn't give up the slam.

[harfman77]

What about Fields at 2B? Maybe it is a crazy idea but the Rockies are attempting to convert Ian Stewart into a second basemen, Iwamura made the switch for the Rays, and Fields is a pretty good athlete. It solves a few problems at the same time, then if Crede walks at the end of the year you move him back in ST next season. Send Ramirez down to play everyday and work on his defense in the IF, use Uribe as a defensive super sub across the IF, and give Richar a lot of time to come back healthy.

[harfman77]

The Angels could make some sense for Paulie if the Sox did want to move him. I believe they have Garrett Anderson coming off the books after this year, which will allow them to move GMJ into the OF and open up the DH spot. Of course Vladdy needs some DH time too, but I doubt the Angels want to take his arm out of their OF permanently.

 

The Blue Jays and Mariners could make sense as well. The Royals would be a good fit if they weren't in the division. While KW has dealt with KC before, the Royals are on the upswing and probably too close to contention IMO to deal a big bat their way. If the Sox did decide to move Paulie there would definitely be suitors.

 

The Yankees would be a possible destination as I am sure they want to get Giambi off the field defensively ASAP. Baltimore might be an option as they wanted Paulie when he was a FA, but not sure how he would fit into their rebuilding. And Oakland could also be a possible destination because of Paulies veteran presence and good contract.

[witesoxfan]

What about Fields at 2B? Maybe it is a crazy idea but the Rockies are attempting to convert Ian Stewart into a second basemen, Iwamura made the switch for the Rays, and Fields is a pretty good athlete. It solves a few problems at the same time, then if Crede walks at the end of the year you move him back in ST next season. Send Ramirez down to play everyday and work on his defense in the IF, use Uribe as a defensive super sub across the IF, and give Richar a lot of time to come back healthy.

 

It'd take far too long to convert Fields to a 2Bman just to have him thrown back in the 3B fire next season. 2B is an entirely different point of view and completely different train of thought.

 

No, it's just not logical to make such a move at this point.

[lostfan]

Also, Fields's defense is barely acceptable at 3B as of now which in my mind just doesn't justify trying to move him to a more important defensive position where he'd probably suck horribly for a while.

[DBAHO]

FWIW, Ozzie said in the Trib he's sticking with Uribe so long as the Sox are winning.

 

Have to say I was annoyed with that comment.

[southsideirish71]

FWIW, Ozzie said in the Trib he's sticking with Uribe so long as the Sox are winning.

 

Have to say I was annoyed with that comment.

 

They are playing under 500 since last Monday. Is it going to take a 5 to 10 game losing streak for Ozzie to give up on Profundo.

 

The guy never gets taken out of a game.

 

 

 

[AddisonStSox]

They are playing under 500 since last Monday. Is it going to take a 5 to 10 game losing streak for Ozzie to give up on Profundo.

The guy never gets taken out of a game.

 

Well, that, of course, is the catch-22. Uribe's magnificent range won't ever allow for a 5 to 10 game losing streak.

 

The legend lives on.

[southsider2k5]

Also, Fields's defense is barely acceptable at 3B as of now which in my mind just doesn't justify trying to move him to a more important defensive position where he'd probably suck horribly for a while.

 

Not to mention that the last stat I saw was Fields had 24 Ks in something like 59 ABs.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

ABU

 

Anyone But Uribe