All Things Pro-Obama

[Texsox]

Do you understand why I say what I did?

 

He's heard "questionable" things at his church. Ok, but now that those "questionable things" have been aired out, suddenly, he's uncomfortable associating with them after 20 years? It's a double standard and hypocritical.

 

To be fair, he's darned if he does and darned if he doesn't. But, I'm pretty sure that "white people" aren't exactly welcomed with open arms at UTC. It's a shame that this is so much of an issue, but at the same time, I think the character of Obama comes in to play with all of this - it's the people he associates most with, whether you like it or not. You are "friends" with people you think alike with - not all encompassing, but mostly. You identify with people at a church, most of the time. It's a reference point, but not an end all, be all. And that reference point is important.

 

I hear your point, but at what point does it become a double standard and hypocritical? After one time? Ten Times? When your views change? When the other person crosses some line? Once you run for office and get elected you are now locked in on all your associates?

 

And how much do you have to overlap to be friends? I have friends who I differ almost 100% politically, but we enjoy surfing and camping together. If one of them ran for office and I did not support them, would I be a hypocrite? Would they be hypocritical if I used our friendship to discuss my views on immigration and then they disowned me? After all we are friends now.

[kapkomet]

I hear your point, but at what point does it become a double standard and hypocritical? After one time? Ten Times? When your views change? When the other person crosses some line? Once you run for office and get elected you are now locked in on all your associates?

 

And how much do you have to overlap to be friends? I have friends who I differ almost 100% politically, but we enjoy surfing and camping together. If one of them ran for office and I did not support them, would I be a hypocrite? Would they be hypocritical if I used our friendship to discuss my views on immigration and then they disowned me? After all we are friends now.

I think that "church" is a fabric of life, meaning, if you choose to associate yourself with it for TWENTY YEARS, you're agreeing with most of what goes on there. Disagreements happen, but the atmosphere as described by MANY (and no, not just the asshole Hannitys and Limbaughs or worse of the world, from some articles I've read of people who attend there in the newspaper a couple of times) says that Obama holds certain aspects of this place true.

[Texsox]

I think that "church" is a fabric of life, meaning, if you choose to associate yourself with it for TWENTY YEARS, you're agreeing with most of what goes on there. Disagreements happen, but the atmosphere as described by MANY (and no, not just the asshole Hannitys and Limbaughs or worse of the world, from some articles I've read of people who attend there in the newspaper a couple of times) says that Obama holds certain aspects of this place true.

 

I agree, most of what goes on there. And we know about the recent history, is it hypocritical if there was 15 years of somewhat benign sermons and then Pastor becomes more radical and then you leave a couple years later? Which is kind of my point.

 

Some will make a huge deal about this, others will defend it. I'm kind of in the middle. At my old Church, Fr. Jerry is Pro Union, I am not a fan. Yet, I enjoyed 90% of his sermons and the various committees and events I helped with. Which is something else that isn't really talked about much. For many, Church life is more than Sunday for an hour. I played in our basketball league, helped with our Scout Troop, Chaired the Build for our Youth Gold Outing, my son taught Sunday School, as family we helped with the Thanksgiving Luncheon. Balance that with a 10 minute sermon on Sundays and I could see sticking around even if I disagreed with the Pastor on a few things. At one point 90% of our friends were members of that Church.

[bmags]

I'm friends at school with someone who attends trinity. She's the brightest, nicest, open person I've ever met. This isn't a terrorist camp.

 

And another leap, Obama said he heard 'questionable' things in sermons, he didn't say he WAS THERE for the questionable sermons we saw. I continually see this repeated and I don't understand it.

 

edit: she's not the brightest person I've ever met, but she's got some bright ideas in journalism reporting.

Edited June 1, 2008 by bmags

[kapkomet]

I'm friends at school with someone who attends trinity. She's the brightest, nicest, open person I've ever met. This isn't a terrorist camp.

 

And another leap, Obama said he heard 'questionable' things in sermons, he didn't say he WAS THERE for the questionable sermons we saw. I continually see this repeated and I don't understand it.

 

edit: she's not the brightest person I've ever met, but she's got some bright ideas in journalism reporting.

And I'm not saying it is. But I am saying, there are certain verbal overtones in the culture there that separate us as a society when they shouldn't. And if Obama is a part of that, he's just like every other politician out there and is no different then any of the rest.

[bmags]

Well, my friend is not a part of that, and she's been there all her life. She said she makes it to about 2 a month. She's taught me a lot and when I learned she had been to this church in addition to a chicago reader article on a journalists run-in with THE PEOPLe of the church, I almost feel a need to defend it. The way she describes it, the people of that church are just very active and intelligent on the issues the city faces.

 

 

 

[kapkomet]

Well, my friend is not a part of that, and she's been there all her life. She said she makes it to about 2 a month. She's taught me a lot and when I learned she had been to this church in addition to a chicago reader article on a journalists run-in with THE PEOPLe of the church, I almost feel a need to defend it. The way she describes it, the people of that church are just very active and intelligent on the issues the city faces.

I think 95% of what goes on there is probably fine. And I realize the 5% is making the story here - but it's a glimpse of underneath what's happening there - nothing more. I'm not trying to say this is a racist, no whites allowed, all you haters stay out, type of place... but I am trying to say that there's certain overtones that keep migrating their way out into the media, so there has to be something to it.

 

[bmags]

Well, I feel like there are people in that church, some of them had to live through a pretty despicable era, and personally I think it's important that we acknowledge how things were and not have this get over it, things are better now. There are still repercussions for the institutional racism in this country, and if they are going to vent, vent, I guess, but, the important thing is that people of that church don't take these attitudes outside. We are talking about a very positive church for the city of Chicago.

[Gregory Pratt]

This is what I wrote on Obama leaving Trinity:

 

I was having dinner with a very close friend a few hours ago when the nightly news informed us that Barack Obama had left his Church. As in, he quit, ripped up the membership card, walked out of Reverend Wright’s life for good. I listened to Obama explain that his pastor had said some things that do not belong in politics or the pulpit, and that was that. He was gone. Pardon me the cynicism, but I don’t believe for a second that Obama left out of principle. Reverend Wright is not a stranger to him, and even though he didn’t attend all of his sermons the very first one, which he writes about in his book, was controversial enough for him to have known what he was getting into at that church from the beginning. For anyone to suggest that Obama wasn’t aware of that church’s going-ons is disingenuous or naive.

 

I have heard some people suggest that Obama never really believed in the teachings of that church, that he was merely using that influential house of worship to advance himself politically in the city of Chicago, but I take him at his word when he says that his character was forged there, where he was married, where his children were baptized, where he found Jesus Christ and himself. If these things were not true and he were merely using that church and its people to start a political career for the last twenty years, then that would be absolutely repugnant and it is unthinkable that someone could be so cynical. Obama’s withdrawal from the Church is supposed to kill the story that his advisors rightly believe to be an albatross around his neck heading into the general election, and it is meant to separate him from Wright forever. It is a political decision, and it is indefensible. This is an awful way to treat a man who is better than a father to you, and Obama ought to be ashamed of himself.

 

My hero Harry Truman’s career was made by a political boss named Tom Pendergast in Missouri. This man was despised around the country and when Truman gained election to the Senate he was derided as “The Senator from Pendergast.” Truman’s own integrity was beyond reproach, but Pendergast was an embarrassing friend to have. In 1940, Pendergast was thrown into prison for racketeering and everyone whom he had helped gain power or money over the years turned on him once he had lost all of his influence. Shortly after he came out of prison in 1945 he died a lonely death, and no one except the family and Harry Truman attended the funeral. Truman did this knowing he’d be hammered by the press but for Truman that was never a problem: it was important to pay respects to this man, even if he was a convicted felon, and he never spoke a word against his old friend before or after his death. (This is only one of several great Truman-friend stories, along with his great quote that “friends don’t count in fair weather. It is when trouble comes that friends count.”)

 

This is not the sort of loyalty George W. Bush seems to insist upon, where even questioning your friends is disloyal. This is the sort of loyalty we should all insist upon with our friends. We all do things we regret, and we all make mistakes. If we can not count on our friends to be with us in those times, who can we count on? If we can not count on our friends to stand by their closest friends, how can we count on them to stand by us? If we can not be counted on to stand by our friends, how can we be counted on to stand by anyone? I have never had to renounce a friend and I hope that I never do, because I wouldn’t unless that friend were guilty of some great moral or legal crime. Wright is not a stranger to Barack Obama, someone he’s met once or twice, and so it is not right for Obama to treat him like he were some rich man who he met for twenty minutes at a fundraiser. It simply is not right to treat your friends that way.

 

I’m disturbed by the fact that Barack Obama would tell a man who is like a father to him to get out of his life because he holds ridiculous views. If he weren’t running for President, it wouldn’t even be an issue. Obama himself had said that he could not renounce Wright anymore than he could renounce his own grandmother and now here he is, leaving his church to avoid hard questions and criticism because it became too much for him. What sort of a man would do such a thing to the man who is like a father to him? Obama likes to pretend that he is different than most politicians but he is just another politician, and this shows it. I’m sorry to hear that because a part of me very much wants to believe in my Senator but I can’t put my trust into a man whose closest friends can’t trust him not to get out of the kitchen because he can’t stand the heat. That’s no good.

[whitesoxfan101]

And if you were in his shoes you would do what exactly?

 

Drop out of the church after it's crazy pastor blamed his own country for 9/11, for starters. Obama seems good throwing people under the bus though, he did it to his own grandmother in the "great" Philadelphia speech. And before it's spun, I can't say what services Obama was and wasn't at, but over the course of 20 years, I'm sure he knew long ago that Reverend Wright had some whack job opinions. If he didn't leave the church due to those opinions offending him long ago like you'd think any sane person would do, he should have due to his presidential aspirations, which I'm sure he has rightfully had for a long time.

Edited June 1, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[Texsox]

I'm sure he knew long ago that Reverend Wright had some whack job opinions.

That's where I am not certain. Has he held those for twenty years, or is it something new? People do change.

[lostfan]

So, it's ok if someone is only 5% racist? Certain things you can seperate out.

This is what you call "deliberately polarizing." It's kind of an absurd question and responding to it's not really going to do much good. If you ask a real question that you expect an honest answer to I might answer it. (Hint: do not arbitrarily use the word "racist")

[kapkomet]

This is what I wrote on Obama leaving Trinity:

It's not often I agree with you, but that's a well written piece, even including the part about GWB.

[Gregory Pratt]

I appreciate the praise and am glad we are in agreement.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I figured I'd cut this off before it got out of hand. For those of you who have seen any of the "right" blogs, there is a rumor that there is a video of Michelle Obama at Trinity going off on "whitey". However, it seems it very well might not be the case.

 

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/1/215329/6229

According to Larry Johnson there is a SHOCKING TAPE out about how Michelle Obama went on a rant against "Whitey" in TUCC. This of course ties everything bad about Obama together (unpatriotism, he's racist against whites, Pastors-PASTORS-PASTORS, and everything else) that some people want to believe. In fact, I through my awesome investigative researching of aforementioned tape can predict what they will claim Michelle said:

 

Whitey cut folks off medicaid!

Whitey let New Orleans drown!

Whitey do nothin' 'bout Jena!

Whitey put us in Iraq for no reason!"

 

Oh noes, this looks really bad doesn't it. And of course Larry Johnson won't add in the intro which puts the tape into context. It is about President Bush and his failures, the correct version of the tape will be:

 

Why'd he cut folks off medicaid?

Why'd he let New Orleans drown?

Why'd he do nothing about Jena?

Why'd he put us in Iraq for no reason?

 

PS: neither the source nor this rebuttal are what I would call "accurate", but it is interesting to note.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[HuskyCaucasian]

Might CLinton Bow Out Tuesday Night?

 

Clinton camp converging on New York Tuesday, and shedding staff

With the future of her campaign in doubt, Clinton hasn't announced her plans for the final election night of the primary cycle or beyond, but the aides said she would stage her election night event in New York City. Her entourage is currently expected to wake up Tuesday in New York and to arrive in Washington, D.C. Tuesday night.

 

It's been thought that if/when Clinton does bow out, it would be in NY where she has make nice with her constituency in preparation for when her seat is up again.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[whitesoxfan101]

I figured I'd cut this off before it got out of hand. For those of you who have seen any of the "right" blogs, there is a rumor that there is a video of Michelle Obama at Trinity going off on "whitey". However, it seems it very well might not be the case.

 

PS: neither the source nor this rebuttal are what I would call "accurate", but it is interesting to note.

 

The rumor of this tapes existence has been out there for quite a while now. It might be used an October surprise I think, but I'd be somewhat surprised if it doesn't exist with as much as has been said about it. I have no opinion on it though until there is concrete proof of it's existence.

Edited June 2, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[lostfan]

The rumor of this tapes existence has been out there for quite a while now. It might be used an October surprise I think, but I'd be somewhat surprised if it doesn't exist with as much as has been said about it. I have no opinion on it though until there is concrete proof of it's existence.

From what I know of Larry Johnson (admittedly not a whole lot), he's not a credible person and it's plausible he'd try something like that.

[Texsox]

This was a no win for the man. Seemed most people wanted him to leave the Church, and when he does, he's called a hypocrite. Some people believe if you even listen to something, you must believe it. Guilt by association. I read every one of Kap's and SS's posts, doesn't mean I agree with them, it just means I respect their generally well stated and thought out opinions. And when they are totally wacked, I laugh. During the course of a week, I bet I hear their short sermons more than if they were Preachers on Sunday. I know I spend more than an hour a week here.

 

Regardless, I am confident that if elected President, he will not be able to destroy "whitey" any more than Jackson destroyed the "n*****s". Anyone who listen to Johnson's tapes will remember he used the "n" word regularly.

His (Johnson) racial attitudes were mixed up beyond any possibility of our untangling them cleanly now: Mr. Dallek quotes him defending the Supreme Court appointment of the very well-known Thurgood Marshall, rather than a black judge less identified with the civil rights cause, by saying to a staff member, "Son, when I appoint a n***** to the court, I want everyone to know he's a n*****."

 

As with most of the items like this, if you already were not going to vote for him, its yet another reason. If you were, it's no big deal. If you are on the fence, weigh it against everything else. But if you think a white guy of McCain's era doesn't have some of the same, albeit reversed, attitudes about race, I think you are fooling yourself.

 

Everyone here would have to make some changes in their lives to run for President.

[EvilMonkey]

This was a no win for the man. Seemed most people wanted him to leave the Church, and when he does, he's called a hypocrite. Some people believe if you even listen to something, you must believe it. Guilt by association. I read every one of Kap's and SS's posts, doesn't mean I agree with them, it just means I respect their generally well stated and thought out opinions. And when they are totally wacked, I laugh. During the course of a week, I bet I hear their short sermons more than if they were Preachers on Sunday. I know I spend more than an hour a week here.

Tex, reading posts on a message board is a little different than going to a church, but lets work with that. Let's say that whoever 'owns' Soxtalk had a weekly post of the status and goings on of Soxtalk. And suppose that every third or fourth post he ranted about the evils the 'darkies' are doing to the White Sox fan base, or how Soxtalk has declined in quality since blacks are allowed to post. And suppose that this went on for a while. Being that this is a message board, you may try to talk to him and get him to cool down the talk, but if he persisted, you would probably leave. If the 'owner' keeps spouting these racist views, all the posters here would then start to be damned by simply continuing to post here, unless your posts were AGAINST him, regardless of what your actual views are. Thankfully we don't have that here, and when people get too far off the reservation, they get reminded that this is a community and such things are not tolerated. A church is an even bigger venue for such things, especially one that video tapes its sermons for all to see and hear. Do I think he believe in such radical things as his dear friend was spouting? No, not really, but I don't think he totally disagrees with them either.

[EvilMonkey]

1) As with most of the items like this, if you already were not going to vote for him, its yet another reason. If you were, it's no big deal. If you are on the fence, weigh it against everything else. 2) But if you think a white guy of McCain's era doesn't have some of the same, albeit reversed, attitudes about race, I think you are fooling yourself.

 

3)Everyone here would have to make some changes in their lives to run for President.

1) This is very true

2) So are you saying that anyone over 40 or so holds racial grudges?

3) How VERY true.

[HuskyCaucasian]

From what I know of Larry Johnson (admittedly not a whole lot), he's not a credible person and it's plausible he'd try something like that.

FYI: It seems the story has changed. First it was her in the pulpit at Trinity, now ii's Michele on a panel with Louis Farrakhan. hmmm... a changng story.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[Gregory Pratt]

This was a no win for the man. Seemed most people wanted him to leave the Church, and when he does, he's called a hypocrite. Some people believe if you even listen to something, you must believe it. Guilt by association. I read every one of Kap's and SS's posts, doesn't mean I agree with them, it just means I respect their generally well stated and thought out opinions. And when they are totally wacked, I laugh. During the course of a week, I bet I hear their short sermons more than if they were Preachers on Sunday. I know I spend more than an hour a week here.

 

Regardless, I am confident that if elected President, he will not be able to destroy "whitey" any more than Jackson destroyed the "n*****s". Anyone who listen to Johnson's tapes will remember he used the "n" word regularly.

 

As with most of the items like this, if you already were not going to vote for him, its yet another reason. If you were, it's no big deal. If you are on the fence, weigh it against everything else. But if you think a white guy of McCain's era doesn't have some of the same, albeit reversed, attitudes about race, I think you are fooling yourself.

 

Everyone here would have to make some changes in their lives to run for President.

 

Johnson spoke in the language of his time and culture. No one cared more for the poor and for minorities than LBJ, and that shows in his legislation.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Gregory Pratt

[HuskyCaucasian]

on the lighter side....

[HuskyCaucasian]