All Things Pro-Hillary

[EvilMonkey]

No, it doesn't matter if the whip is worth a damn. If there is going to be a close vote everyone will come and vote. BUt for all these present votes they don't matter. Criticism against three senators missing all this time in the Senate campaigning is silly, as any political scientist will tell you it doesn't matter. A large majority of bills, after everything is final, pass with smoothly after the minority party shows they fought against it a little bit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/polit...amp;oref=slogin

The money quote

Although a present vote is not unusual in Illinois, Mr. Obama’s use of it is being raised as he tries to distinguish himself as a leader who will take on the tough issues, even if it means telling people the “hard truths” they do not want to hear.

When you hear line like this:

...But the organization argued that a present vote would be difficult for Republicans to use in campaign literature against Democrats from moderate and conservative districts who favored abortion rights.

If your position is a good one, a just one, one that you believe in, why hide it by voting present? What a display of courage and leadership that was. I know that it IS a rule in Illinois that you can vote that way, but it is just a pussy way of trying to have your cake and eat it too, and shows a lack of political backbone to take on those tough issues and show people where you stand. As for Balta's 'show me where his one vote mattered', it didn't as far as I can tell, because he usually voted 'presen't in concert with others. That whole block of votes may have made a difference, but since they didn't vote, we'll never know. Quit being ashamed of who you are, Obama. Show the world your voting tendencies, be proud! I guess he would rather be 'present' instead.

 

[lostfan]

I thought this had been beat to death already but I guess not. This thing came up, and blew over way before I even gave Obama a second thought so there is no bias on my part here.

 

It's a strawman creator's dream. There are any number of reasons you vote against a bill, but 95% of the time when someone uses that vote in a campaign ad it's reduced to a literal yes or no, one extreme or the other, and the intent behind the vote is lost. So if a lawmaker votes against, say, health care for poor kids, he/she is made out to be "endorsing the poor health of children" or some extreme BS. If someone votes in favor of a certain gun control measure (but not take away guns) it'll be "politician X wants to restrict the freedom of Americans while keeping the rights of criminals intact." And so on. They're always drawn out to their illogical conclusions. The same thing applies to these "present" votes. It's a standard political practice but it was blown into hyperbole by Hillary's camp, and by extension the GOP, to distort Obama's record and make him out to be a spineless coward. (Very rarely does anybody who repeats this even know what he voted "present" on or mention the fact that he did vote on an overwhelming majority of other things - and they also can't even be bothered to point to those votes or non-votes and find an inconsistency in his stances on any issues. Nor do they even really know why he voted that way, they just gleefully cite it all as fact, and it's plenty proof to them.)

Edited May 12, 2008 by lostfan

[BigSqwert]

If your position is a good one, a just one, one that you believe in, why hide it by voting present? What a display of courage and leadership that was. I know that it IS a rule in Illinois that you can vote that way, but it is just a pussy way of trying to have your cake and eat it too, and shows a lack of political backbone to take on those tough issues and show people where you stand. As for Balta's 'show me where his one vote mattered', it didn't as far as I can tell, because he usually voted 'presen't in concert with others. That whole block of votes may have made a difference, but since they didn't vote, we'll never know. Quit being ashamed of who you are, Obama. Show the world your voting tendencies, be proud! I guess he would rather be 'present' instead.

So you're saying that you would have strongly considered Obama if only he had not used the 'present vote' tactic as an Illinois Senator?

Edited May 13, 2008 by BigSqwert

[EvilMonkey]

So you're saying that you would have strongly considered Obama if only he had not used the 'present vote' tactic as an Illinois Senator?

No, I am saying he is a political coward, like many others on both sides, for not believing in his convictions and voting 'present'. He used that option sometimes as a show of 'solidarity' with his party, sometimes to avoid taking a stand on an issue to avoid it being used against him in later elections. If he is firm in his convictions, why hide behind a 'present' vote? And most of those involved guns and/or crime in some form or another. I fear for my wallet if Obama is ever elected. Being a small business owner, I am the type of person who is going to get royally screwed by all the Democratic proposals, and I don't look forward to it. (Actually, i fear for my wallet whichever one of these 3 gets elected, just fear for it a little less with McCain)

[NorthSideSox72]

To quote Popeye: I yam what I yam. I don't need discourse and I don't need liberals.

Then, I have to ask... why post or read in here? I mean, discourse is what we are doing, right now. And half the board (more or less) are "liberals". If you don't need either, why not just curl up by the fire with a good AM radio and tune into Rush?

 

I should start a thread: Why do you post in the Buster? I'd like to hear some peoples' answers.

 

[YASNY]

Then, I have to ask... why post or read in here? I mean, discourse is what we are doing, right now. And half the board (more or less) are "liberals". If you don't need either, why not just curl up by the fire with a good AM radio and tune into Rush?

 

I should start a thread: Why do you post in the Buster? I'd like to hear some peoples' answers.

 

I've asked myself the same question a number of times. In fact, I took a good solid month off from posting in the Buster recently. But when it comes down to it, I like to have my say. I can't just let the liberal half of the board corrupt those with open minds or are on the fence.

[bmags]

I'm studying for my Congress and Legislature class, and I'll give Senator Clinton her due for making me laugh at 1:30 a.m. (though, this was the definition of an alley-oop from the wyoming sen)

From All Roads lead to Congress by Joshua Shanck and Costas Pofahsdfiasflnsl:

 

"It is remarkable how far one can progress in the U.S. government without even knowing what the United States looks like. At one point Senator Clinton of NY offered an amendment that would change the funding allocation formula for international border crossings. Border crossings were given money under the bill to improve roads or entrances at international borders, thus improving the flow of international commerce. When Clinton offered her amendment, Republican Craig Thomas of Wyoming was confused. What possible reason, he asked incredulously, does New York have to care about borders? With what "country", he pressed, does New York share a border? Clinton politely informed him that New York, in fact, borders Canada. Perhaps, she added, he should come and see it sometime."

 

I suppose this is funnier more for Craig Thomas anyways.

[StrangeSox]

I'm confused. New York does border Canada.

[bmags]

I'm confused. New York does border Canada.

 

that's addressed in the paragraph by Sen. Clinton.

[StrangeSox]

that's addressed in the paragraph by Sen. Clinton.

 

Oh, right, this is the PRO-Hillary thread. I'm used to her getting trashed regularly. My mistake!

[southsider2k5]

No, I am saying he is a political coward, like many others on both sides, for not believing in his convictions and voting 'present'. He used that option sometimes as a show of 'solidarity' with his party, sometimes to avoid taking a stand on an issue to avoid it being used against him in later elections. If he is firm in his convictions, why hide behind a 'present' vote? And most of those involved guns and/or crime in some form or another. I fear for my wallet if Obama is ever elected. Being a small business owner, I am the type of person who is going to get royally screwed by all the Democratic proposals, and I don't look forward to it. (Actually, i fear for my wallet whichever one of these 3 gets elected, just fear for it a little less with McCain)

 

Which goes back to my original question many posts ago... If this is the candidate for change, why is he doing the same things as all the rest of the candidates? A leader should exhibit leadership, not just on the easy stuff, but the tuff stuff as well. It pisses me off that politicians count votes and then hide when it is politically cold outside to get cover from something that could upset people. Well that is why we elect people in the first place, to make tough choices on the direction of the country. Minimizing certian votes is a sad attempt to cover up the bigger problem of politicians more worried about politics than doing their damned jobs. Hell if I tried to hide from tough choices at my job, I would be out on the street by the end of the week, and my job has a whole lot less impact on the world than John McCain or Barack Obama's does. Man up.

[kapkomet]

Which goes back to my original question many posts ago... If this is the candidate for change, why is he doing the same things as all the rest of the candidates? A leader should exhibit leadership, not just on the easy stuff, but the tuff stuff as well. It pisses me off that politicians count votes and then hide when it is politically cold outside to get cover from something that could upset people. Well that is why we elect people in the first place, to make tough choices on the direction of the country. Minimizing certian votes is a sad attempt to cover up the bigger problem of politicians more worried about politics than doing their damned jobs. Hell if I tried to hide from tough choices at my job, I would be out on the street by the end of the week, and my job has a whole lot less impact on the world than John McCain or Barack Obama's does. Man up.

"It doesn't matter".

 

[southsider2k5]

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/pos...GFmNTQ2NGVhM2Y=

 

Obama, Underperforming Kerry Among White Voters

 

The Hillary-friendly bloggers at TalkLeft note that “Barack Obama has not gotten more than 40 percent of the white vote since Wisconsin, where he won the white vote.”

 

It’s an imperfect comparison to weigh demographics from a primary election against a general election. Still, it would seem hard to imagine a scenario in which Obama gets a larger share of the white vote in the general election than he did in recent Democratic primaries. A not insignificant chunk of the white vote is Republican, and while “Operation Chaos,” a disinterest in the fairly-quickly-settled GOP primary, or genuine Obamacans may have boosted the number of Republicans who voted in this year’s Democratic primaries, the pool of voters who will turn out in November are likely to be whiter and less inclined to vote for Obama than the Democratic primary voter pools.

 

In other words, if Obama can't close the deal with white Democrats, it will be an uphill climb to win over white independents and white Republicans.

 

There will probably be a little more than 32 million votes cast in the Democratic primary this year. The total turnout in 2004 was 122 million Americans, which amounted to 60.7 percent of eligible voters. In other words, there are probably about 90 million Americans who will vote in November who did not vote in this year’s Democratic primary.

 

(Obama will almost certainly drive up African-American turnout in the general election this year, but the gap between this and other demographics has shrunk significantly. In 2004, 87.4 percent of registered African-Americans cast a ballot in the Presidential election, according to statistics compiled by the US Census Bureau, compared with 89.4 percent turnout among registered, non-Hispanic whites.)

 

In state after state, Barack Obama is drastically underperforming John Kerry’s general election numbers among whites among a voter pool almost entirely limited to Democrats.

 

In the Ohio Democratic primary, Barack Obama carried 34 percent of the white vote. In the 2004 general election, John Kerry carried 44 percent of the white vote.

 

In Pennsylvania, Obama carried 37 percent of the white vote. In the 2004 general election, John Kerry carried 45 percent.

 

In Missouri, Obama won 39 percent of the white vote. In the 2004 general election, John Kerry carried 42 percent of the white vote.

 

This phenomenon occurs in states that aren’t seen as teeming with those classic Rust Belt/Midwest demographics. In Connecticut, Obama carried 48 percent of the white vote; John Kerry carried 51 percent.

 

In New Jersey, Obama carried 31 percent of the white vote. In the 2004 general election, Kerry carried 46 percent.

 

In Rhode Island, Obama carried 37 percent of the white vote. In the 2004 general election Kerry carried 57 percent of the white vote.

 

In Maryland, Obama carried 42 percent of the white vote; Kerry carried 44 percent in the 2004 general election.

 

There are a few states where Obama’s primary percentage outpaces Kerry’s general election share. In North Carolina, Obama carried 37 percent of the white vote. In the 2004 general election, John Kerry carried 27 percent. (So much for help from John Edwards.)

 

In Indiana, Obama carried 40 percent of the white vote; Kerry carried 34 percent.

 

In New Mexico, Obama carried 55 percent of the white vote, Kerry got 43 percent. (Of course, in that state, Kerry carried 56 percent of the Latino vote (32 percent of the electorate that year), while Obama carried 36 percent of that key demographic in this year’s caucus, according to exit polls.)

 

But overall, it seems extremely likely that Barack Obama will get a smaller share of the white vote than John Kerry did in 2004 – requiring a huge turnout among other demographics. Some, like African-Americans, have already demonstrated great enthusiasm for Obama. Others, like Latinos…haven’t, at least not yet.

[lostfan]

The gap in the white vote is most sharply divided among older whites around 45 and up, BTW (they're probably the largest chunk of the electorate though). Whites in their 30s and under seem more likely to support Obama than Hillary.

[BigSqwert]

Attention Hillary supporters! Get a free Hillary tattoo!!

[NorthSideSox72]

Attention Hillary supporters! Get a free Hillary tattoo!!

Getting a Hillary Clinton tattoo today would be like getting a tattoo of your wife's name while you were in divorce proceedings.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

Getting a Hillary Clinton tattoo today would be like getting a tattoo of your wife's name while you were in divorce proceedings.

hahaha

Several months ago I thought about buying some Obama gear. Maybe a hat or something. Then I though, this is still wide open. If he looses, I look like a real ass wearing this. It's like buying the championship shirt of the team that LOST the super bowl.

[lostfan]

hahaha

Several months ago I thought about buying some Obama gear. Maybe a hat or something. Then I though, this is still wide open. If he looses, I look like a real ass wearing this. It's like buying the championship shirt of the team that LOST the super bowl.

So what you're saying is we should give Hillary tattoos to kids in Africa?

[HuskyCaucasian]

So what you're saying is we should give Hillary tattoos to kids in Africa?

why not? lol

It's better than a penis gourd.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[BigSqwert]

hahaha

Several months ago I thought about buying some Obama gear. Maybe a hat or something. Then I though, this is still wide open. If he looses, I look like a real ass wearing this. It's like buying the championship shirt of the team that LOST the super bowl.

I'm still wearing my Obama thong.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

So what you're saying is we should give Hillary tattoos to kids in Africa?

When I was in Haiti, I remember seeing a kid with a beat up batter-man style Sox shirt walking down the street. He probably had no idea what it meant. Also saw a woman who had to be 80 years old, trundling down the road, with a shirt that said "HOT MAMA" on it.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

I'm still wearing my Obama thong.

 

that's just creepy.

[lostfan]

When I was in Haiti, I remember seeing a kid with a beat up batter-man style Sox shirt walking down the street. He probably had no idea what it meant. Also saw a woman who had to be 80 years old, trundling down the road, with a shirt that said "HOT MAMA" on it.

Isn't it a different country they give the losing SB shirts to every year?

[BigSqwert]

that's just creepy.

You should have seen the looks I received at the Obama victory speech on Super Tuesday.

[HuskyCaucasian]

You should have seen the looks I received at the Obama victory speech on Super Tuesday.

that is a mental image i do NOT need. lol