daa84 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 (edited) I know Ozzie likes cabrera as a #2 hitter. but lets be honest, the fact that swisher doesnt have speed basically negates what a prototypical #2 hitter should do (which i am totally fine with). What i mean is, how valuable is a prototypical #2 hitter, if we don't have a prototypical #1? I say we should leave Swisher at leadoff, let CQ bat 2, Crede 7 and Cabrera 8. I mean how many times this year have we been able to effectively use cabrera's "#2 hitter skills?" seems very sparingly to me. So why not get the guy with a higher obp in the 2 hole, who has some power to drive swisher in as well (since swisher is on base 40% of the time). If we have obp at #1, we may as well have high obp at #2 as well and hope the big boppers can hit some 3 R HRs...because theres no way around it..that is what we are, is a team who will win with the 3 R HR Edited April 25, 2008 by daa84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Sounds logical, therefore, it will never happen. I hereforth banish OC to the #2 spot for the remainder of the year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted April 25, 2008 Author Share Posted April 25, 2008 QUOTE (TitoMB345 @ Apr 25, 2008 -> 12:06 AM) Sounds logical, therefore, it will never happen. I hereforth banish OC to the #2 spot for the remainder of the year! lol i dont mind OC at #2 ....mainly hes just struggling right now, and his ability to move the runner, hit behind the runner, hit and run just really dont seem to fit this teams needs right now, so i think we can get better production that fits our lineup at 2 with CQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 OC is getting on base at about the same rate Quentin is but with a higher average. So with that higher average he is more likely to move Swisher from 1st to third. Right now, he seems like the better option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I agree, but I also disagree. Moving Quentin to the 2 spot makes the top of the order better, but then that weakens the bottom of the order. A 6-9 of Pierzynski, Crede, Cabrera, and Uribe isn't going to take a whole lot of pitches/walks. All of them are pretty much free swingers. With Quentin hitting down there, he adds balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 QUOTE (max power @ Apr 24, 2008 -> 11:25 PM) OC is getting on base at about the same rate Quentin is but with a higher average. So with that higher average he is more likely to move Swisher from 1st to third. Right now, he seems like the better option. well, he did fail pretty badly on that hit and run attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 QUOTE (BearSox @ Apr 25, 2008 -> 12:28 AM) well, he did fail pretty badly on that hit and run attempt. That was a pretty brutal pitch to have to handle the hit and run with...I think it was silly to hit and run against Farnsworth....even he can't tell you where the pitch is going... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 QUOTE (BearSox @ Apr 25, 2008 -> 12:28 AM) well, he did fail pretty badly on that hit and run attempt. That was one play that just happened to be tonight. Overall, he has hit the ball more, though not nearly as hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 QUOTE (daa84 @ Apr 24, 2008 -> 11:01 PM) I know Ozzie likes cabrera as a #2 hitter. but lets be honest, the fact that swisher doesnt have speed basically negates what a prototypical #2 hitter should do (which i am totally fine with). What i mean is, how valuable is a prototypical #2 hitter, if we don't have a prototypical #1? I say we should leave Swisher at leadoff, let CQ bat 2, Crede 7 and Cabrera 8. I mean how many times this year have we been able to effectively use cabrera's "#2 hitter skills?" seems very sparingly to me. So why not get the guy with a higher obp in the 2 hole, who has some power to drive swisher in as well (since swisher is on base 40% of the time). If we have obp at #1, we may as well have high obp at #2 as well and hope the big boppers can hit some 3 R HRs...because theres no way around it..that is what we are, is a team who will win with the 3 R HR OC has been pretty good as a #2 guy and handles the bat very well in that spot. No reason to take him out of it. OBP isnt as imporant at #2 as it is at #1. You want a contact hitter at #2 who hits oppo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 No, you have to leave things the way they are. Ideally, Swisher would be in a position to hit somewhere around the 6-hole. Unfortunately, this current roster doesn't allow for that. Swisher is being a good solider in hitting lead-off, and Cabrera needs to remain in the 2-hole. ...taking Uribe out of the lineup would improve things some... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I'd keep everything as is for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 QUOTE (AddisonStSox @ Apr 25, 2008 -> 08:57 AM) ...taking Uribe out of the lineup would improve things some... Until Richar gets healthy or Alexei gets hot, not much can really be done about it. Uribe's offers very good defense, whereas Richar offers nothing while he's hurt and Alexei is offering no defense and no offense. Uribe is currently the club's best option at 2B because they have no one that can play a legitimate 2B. Perhaps Chris Getz could be given a shot, but that's about it, and I think he'd be a worse overall hitter than Owens was without the speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I wonder what the logic behind having quentin bat in front of crede is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 QUOTE (max power @ Apr 25, 2008 -> 01:26 PM) I wonder what the logic behind having quentin bat in front of crede is. OBP in front of clutchness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I just wish crede had someone to cover him. Teams are going to wake up to that clutchness. Joe Giradi should have last night with first open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Philips Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 25, 2008 -> 01:34 PM) OBP in front of clutchness. when it comes to a number 2 hitter I believe Iguchi was ideal just as Frank Thomas said he had the best hands in the buisiness.. Who on the sox has the best bat control.. Who puts the bat on the ball and places it... Nellie Fox could place the ball it is a "matter of hitting it where they aint" I know this is also a matter of hitting both righties and lefties.. I don't know. Joe did a great job with chamberlain's pitch last night.. I believe the team will do better trying to go the other way against overwhelming pitchers.. Wow..primary reason.........I don't want a repeat or fast or famine with our hitting we've had in recent years and a few of our 08 games......... Edited April 25, 2008 by forrestg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 25, 2008 -> 12:34 PM) Until Richar gets healthy or Alexei gets hot, not much can really be done about it. Uribe's offers very good defense, whereas Richar offers nothing while he's hurt and Alexei is offering no defense and no offense. Uribe is currently the club's best option at 2B because they have no one that can play a legitimate 2B. Perhaps Chris Getz could be given a shot, but that's about it, and I think he'd be a worse overall hitter than Owens was without the speed. Have you ever seen a guy "get hot" while sitting on the bench? If you have, let me know. You must play him in order for him to "get hot." Therein lies the problem. It's a shame Uribe's plus-arm can't hit above the mendoza line. To quote Mugatu, "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowch Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Is it strange to anyone else that Quentin is leading the team in runs out of the 7 spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 QUOTE (Cowch @ Apr 25, 2008 -> 02:30 PM) Is it strange to anyone else that Quentin is leading the team in runs out of the 7 spot? Not a surprise when Crede is hitting 8th and Thome/Konerko are off to somewhat slow starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Ideally you would want a better leadoff guy playing 2B that could hit in front of OC and get on base. For comparison's sake, lets say its someone with the initials BR. 1. BR-OBP, possible speed 2. OC-good hands, hits oppo 3. Thome OBP 4 Kong 5. Dye this is where is could change us a bit. Crede and Quentin are both RBI guys, and Q and Swish have great OBP. AJ seems better at hitting to the left side of the infield, but also can drive in a few, and hits for contact. He also wears out opposing pitchers a bit. 6. Swish 7. AJP 8. CQ 9. Crede I like to split up the low OBP guys with some guys who see alot of pitches. We also have 3-30hr guys in the 6,8,9 spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 QUOTE (AddisonStSox @ Apr 25, 2008 -> 03:15 PM) Have you ever seen a guy "get hot" while sitting on the bench? If you have, let me know. You must play him in order for him to "get hot." Therein lies the problem. It's a shame Uribe's plus-arm can't hit above the mendoza line. To quote Mugatu, "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" He's 4 for 24 and has seen the most playing time out of any non-starter. He has yet to show that he can handle MLB pitching. So, to respond to your statement, he is getting playing time. Not as much as Uribe, but he's failed to grab the bull by the horn. Least we forget that Quentin started the year on the bench and hit his way into the starting lineup. The original starter, of course, was Alexei Ramirez. He's getting opportunities to get hot and is not taking them. That's on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 25, 2008 -> 06:45 PM) He's 4 for 24 and has seen the most playing time out of any non-starter. He has yet to show that he can handle MLB pitching. So, to respond to your statement, he is getting playing time. Not as much as Uribe, but he's failed to grab the bull by the horn. Least we forget that Quentin started the year on the bench and hit his way into the starting lineup. The original starter, of course, was Alexei Ramirez. He's getting opportunities to get hot and is not taking them. That's on him. He JUST moved to the U.S. like 2 months ago. It will take a certain number of regular AB's for him to adapt, then I think we'll see the production out of him. Honestly, I think that, since our offense has started to struggle somewhat, we should bite the bullet and put alexei (the long-term offensive threat) in at 2b regularly. get the US conversion thing out of the way and then see what he can do. judging from his swings last night, i think he can progress pretty well. he certainly has the bat speed. i don't think he's that far off from being able to fight off breaking pitches, either. i was opposed to pulling uribe previously but that was because we could eat his bat for a while. doesn't look like we can anymore. give alexei the starting job. oh and back on topic, i don't know if we need to pull cabrera from the 2-hole. generally speaking he's a pretty good OBP guy, and consistent. he's reached base in all but one of our games this season so i think you leave him, even if he's struggling with the bat a little. beyond that, i like CQ in the role he's in now. we've almost got 2 middles of the order. a power hump then a little mini power hump after the first one, with CQ getting on base as well. it's a dangerous order the way it's situated now, and if OC gets off the schneid, it'll be even more dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Apr 25, 2008 -> 06:00 PM) He JUST moved to the U.S. like 2 months ago. It will take a certain number of regular AB's for him to adapt, then I think we'll see the production out of him. Honestly, I think that, since our offense has started to struggle somewhat, we should bite the bullet and put alexei (the long-term offensive threat) in at 2b regularly. get the US conversion thing out of the way and then see what he can do. judging from his swings last night, i think he can progress pretty well. he certainly has the bat speed. i don't think he's that far off from being able to fight off breaking pitches, either. i was opposed to pulling uribe previously but that was because we could eat his bat for a while. doesn't look like we can anymore. give alexei the starting job. If you wanted to get him used to the pitching in America, why wouldn't you have him spend some time in Charlotte? It's not like they seceded from the union within the past 100 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 25, 2008 -> 06:09 PM) If you wanted to get him used to the pitching in America, why wouldn't you have him spend some time in Charlotte? It's not like they seceded from the union within the past 100 years. My memory...it ain't what it used to be. Please remind me, if you would be so kind: why is it that the White Sox broke camp with Ramirez on the roster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 QUOTE (AddisonStSox @ Apr 25, 2008 -> 04:46 PM) My memory...it ain't what it used to be. Please remind me, if you would be so kind: why is it that the White Sox broke camp with Ramirez on the roster? Because he had a dynamite spring training. But so far it hasn't carried over to the role he's been put in during the regular year...and thus it's time to consider changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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