Sox batting average

[southsidehawkeye]

What are some examples of teams that have had offense constructed as we do now that have won a World Series?Oakland has competed but hasnt won it all,it seems like you need to hit for average eventually to be successful.Maybe the 05' team was constructed in this way just not to the extreme as it is now with the on base %.

 

 

Just did a quick scan of the recent world series winners BA/OBP numbers, and the lowest that I found was the 1997 Marlins who rocked a .259 BA and the lowest OBP I found was our Whitesox with a .322.

 

So no one in recent memory had quite as low a BA as we are currently hitting, however, I do subscribe to the idea that our average will rise as the year goes on. I find it hard to believe that Swisher, Thome, Cabrera, and Konerko's, averages wont rise... and with them the average of the team as a whole.

[scenario]

i just had a flashback to '07, when I kept telling myself that same thing over and over.

 

My flashback of 2007 is picturing Andy Gonzalez playing 7 different positions for us... and leading off.

 

That's how thin this team was due to injuries.

 

This year, Gonzalez might not even be starting in Charlotte.

 

Pretty much says everything somebody would need to know about why we sucked last year.

 

 

[ScottyDo]

What are some examples of teams that have had offense constructed as we do now that have won a World Series?Oakland has competed but hasnt won it all,it seems like you need to hit for average eventually to be successful.Maybe the 05' team was constructed in this way just not to the extreme as it is now with the on base %.

I would say our lineup is significantly more powerful than Oakland's has been in the last 10 years.

If I HAD to provide an analogue, I'd go with the Yankees, though not to the same extent as their lineup. They've got us beat on patience by a decent degree even with our new focus on OBP.

 

Also, it seems to me that a different type of team wins the World Series every year, so I'm not sure you can draw many conclusions from who wins. '05 sox were completely different from the '06 cards who were completely different from the '07 bosox.

[lostfan]

batting average doesn't mean nothing...

 

but it's close.

Bull... you have to hit for at least a reasonable average, there is no way around that, at all. OBP is important, but it isn't THAT important to the point where it completely eclipses the need to hit.

[witesoxfan]

Also, it seems to me that a different type of team wins the World Series every year, so I'm not sure you can draw many conclusions from who wins. '05 sox were completely different from the '06 cards who were completely different from the '07 bosox.

 

Different teams, surely, but all 3 of those teams' pitching staffs were fantastic down the stretch. I have yet to really see a team slug their way to a World Series victory, and I don't expect that to change any time soon.

 

Baseball has always been a cat and mouse game, with the pitcher being the cat and the hitters being mice. At any given time, that cat can put down any number of mice, no matter how many or strong they really are.

[witesoxfan]

I'd like to point out that everyone talking about average here is really implying slugging percentage. You can get on at a .450 clip, but if you hit .100, you aren't scoring runs...that's true because your team slugging percentage is probably going to be .150-.200.

 

OPS is still the best basic way of telling how good an offense/offensive player is. The Sox are 13th in the MLB in team OPS at .754, which is good enough for 6th in the AL. That's a good offense.

[fathom]

RANDOM 2007 LINEUP!!!!

 

Today's random 2007 lineup comes from May 6th vs the LA Angels of Anaheim:

 

Erstad, CF

Ozuna, DH

Dye, RF

Konerko, 1B

Iguchi, 2B

Crede, 3B

Cintron, SS

Sweeney, CF

Molina, C

 

Yeah, I think there might be an underlying reason as to why the '07 White Sox never really got it going offensively. I just can't quite put my finger on it.

 

Didn't that team win that game?

[Kalapse]

Didn't that team win that game?

Thankfully AJ pinch hit for Molina and promptly drove in 3 runs.

[lostfan]

I'd like to point out that everyone talking about average here is really implying slugging percentage.

Well, yeah. A player hitting .250 is average, but if he hits .250 with 35 HRs and 20 doubles he is an above average player.

[Balta1701]

Didn't that team win that game?

The Giants aren't that far under .500 this year.

[gosox41]

They generally do, but after hearing "Don't worry, its April, its still cold" followed by "Don't worry, its May, its still cold" followed by "Don't worry, its only June, they HAVE to break out of it" last year, I can't hold that kind of hope.

 

 

I agree. It's not the 25 games this year but the 162 games of last year that this team hasn't hit for a good average. Eventually the excuses run out. Pretty please, with sugar on top, hit the *&^*()& baseball before this becomes the same psychological thing as last year where everyone starts pressing.

 

The way our starts have pitched lately, this team should be closer to 20 wins then 15. But the inability to get base hits has killed us. I won't panic but it needs to be addressed.

 

Bob

[Vance Law]

OPS is still the best basic way of telling how good an offense/offensive player is. The Sox are 13th in the MLB in team OPS at .754, which is good enough for 6th in the AL. That's a good offense.

 

Yep, and it will get better. Swisher, Cabrera, Thome, Konerko, and Uribe will all end up with considerably higher batting averages, than they have now. You'll probably see AJ, Dye, and Quentin's collectively come down a bit. The Sox won't hit .248 for the season. WE ARE 25 GAMES INTO THE SEASON. The Sox have and will have one of the top offenses in the AL. Gavin Floyd will not maintain a 3.16 ERA. The Baltimore Orioles will not win the AL East. WE ARE 25 GAMES INTO THE SEASON. Utley will not hit 50 home runs. There is no valid argument that Swisher's lower than expected slugging percentage is CAUSED BY his hitting leadoff THROUGH 89 AT BATS. There is a good bet, however, that he will have one of his best seasons yet, going from a terrible hitters park to a great hitters park. Players will get in slumps for periods of time. Players will get out of slumps. David Ortiz will not finish the year with a .611 OPS. During a 25 game stretch any given player's numbers may be brutal or they may be amazing. Any player from Vlad to Uribe. We don't look at that. We look at their season totals. And some people get all out of whack staring at those totals even if the season is 17 games old.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Vance Law

[StrangeSox]

Yep, and it will get better. Swisher, Cabrera, Thome, Konerko, and Uribe will all end up with considerably higher batting averages, than they have now. You'll probably see AJ, Dye, and Quentin's collectively come down a bit. The Sox won't hit .248 for the season. WE ARE 25 GAMES INTO THE SEASON. The Sox have and will have one of the top offenses in the AL. Gavin Floyd will not maintain a 3.16 ERA. The Baltimore Orioles will not win the AL East. WE ARE 25 GAMES INTO THE SEASON. Utley will not hit 50 home runs. There is no valid argument that Swisher's lower than expected slugging percentage is CAUSED BY his hitting leadoff THROUGH 89 AT BATS. There is a good bet, however, that he will have one of his best seasons yet, going from a terrible hitters park to a great hitters park. Players will get in slumps for periods of time. Players will get out of slumps. David Ortiz will not finish the year with a .611 OPS. During a 25 game stretch any given player's numbers may be brutal or they may be amazing. Any player from Vlad to Uribe. We don't look at that. We look at their season totals. And some people get all out of whack staring at those totals even if the season is 17 games old.

 

Again, 2007 says hello. And the second half of 2006. And a lot of 2005. There is no guarantee that they will just start mashing the ball. And while 25 games may sound like a small sample size, its about 15% of a season.

[RockRaines]

Not to mention the gross double headers we've had with the all of a sudden freezing cold rain, and late night travels. All of this has hurt our team's performance over the last few weeks. I expect that with a day off and a little warmth you will see us start to heat up again.

[witesoxfan]

Again, 2007 says hello. And the second half of 2006. And a lot of 2005. There is no guarantee that they will just start mashing the ball. And while 25 games may sound like a small sample size, its about 15% of a season.

 

You seriously think Thome, Konerko, Cabrera, and Swisher will all finish in the .220s? Or that there's a possibility of it? Or that Uribe's going to hit .160 all season?

 

I don't care how bad people think they might be over the course of a season, they won't be this bad, and I'd bet my life savings. Even .240 I could see, but not a collective .220. No way.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

You seriously think Thome, Konerko, Cabrera, and Swisher will all finish in the .220s? Or that there's a possibility of it? Or that Uribe's going to hit .160 all season?

 

I don't care how bad people think they might be over the course of a season, they won't be this bad, and I'd bet my life savings. Even .240 I could see, but not a collective .220. No way.

 

No, they won't hit that bad all season. I also think AJ and CQ will drop a little (under .300 for sure). Uribe may finish the season under .200. He is god awful at the plate.

 

Just by the viture of not playing scrubs like Andy Gonzalez, this team will be better than 2007. But there is absolutely no guarantee that Thome, Konerko, Cabrera, and Swisher will suddenly turn it on and hit their career avg.'s for the rest of the year. I just got really, really sick of hearing that last year.

Edited April 30, 2008 by StrangeSox

[witesoxfan]

No, they won't hit that bad all season. I also think AJ and CQ will drop a little (under .300 for sure). Uribe may finish the season under .200. He is god awful at the plate.

 

Just by the viture of not playing scrubs like Andy Gonzalez, this team will be better than 2007. But there is absolutely no guarantee that Thome, Konerko, Cabrera, and Swisher will suddenly turn it on and hit their career avg.'s for the rest of the year. I just got really, really sick of hearing that last year.

 

I agree with that much. I still think they'll improve dramatically though.

[Vance Law]

But there is absolutely no guarantee that Thome, Konerko, Cabrera, and Swisher will suddenly turn it on and hit their career avg.'s for the rest of the year. I just got really, really sick of hearing that last year.

 

Nice. Absolutely no guarantee.

 

There is also no guarantee that if our entire team hits .220 for the rest of the year, all of the other teams in the AL won't hit .145. Therefore, I have just proven that our offense is in good shape.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Vance Law

[StrangeSox]

Nice. Absolutely no guarantee.

 

There is also no guarantee that if our entire team hits .220 for the rest of the year, all of the other teams in the AL will hit .145. Therefore, I have just proven that our offense is in good shape.

 

A random, absurd statement doesn't really make your point at all. This team looks pretty bad right now offensively. A lot of the players who are slumping right now are also past their prime. For them to hit their career average for the year means they're really going to have to start hitting the ball soon.

[NorthSideSox72]

A random, absurd statement doesn't really make your point at all. This team looks pretty bad right now offensively. A lot of the players who are slumping right now are also past their prime. For them to hit their career average for the year means they're really going to have to start hitting the ball soon.

Call me crazy, but, watching today's game, I think some of them are already coming out of it a bit. There were a lot of well-hit balls that didn't fall. Dye and Cabrera both had that happen, and Thome bit a few really hard.

 

[Vance Law]

A random, absurd statement doesn't really make your point at all.

 

Yes, of course. I was being sarcastic. My point being, you can use the phrase, "there is absolutely no guarantee," as "support" for any claim you might have. For any ill-founded worry or fear a Sox fan posits out of the desire, no, need to come up with ill-founded fears and worries, you can come up with an equally ill-conceived guesstimate about any other team.

 

The Sox are 1st or 2nd in the league at scoring runs. That in spite of the fact that a good chunk of their hitters haven't hit nearly as good as they will.

 

A more legitimate concern is how well will the pitching hold up over the course of the entire season. I will be happily surprised of the combination of Danks, Floyd, and Contreras have a combined ERA of within one run of where they are now.

[stretchstretch]

That in spite of the fact that a good chunk of their hitters haven't hit nearly as good as they will.

 

 

2nd half 06, the entire 2007, and a month of 2008 say Hi

 

This is not a new phenomenon with this group

[stretchstretch]

What are some examples of teams that have had offense constructed as we do now that have won a World Series?Oakland has competed but hasnt won it all,it seems like you need to hit for average eventually to be successful.Maybe the 05' team was constructed in this way just not to the extreme as it is now with the on base %.

 

 

2005 CHW are the example

 

However they also had Contreras, Garcia, Garland, Buehrle, Politte, Hermanson, Zero, Jenks with simultaneous career yrs in a weak division allowing them to win a RIDICULOUS amount of 1 run games....

[kwolf68]

 

This idea that most Sox players are hitting 'below' their career averages is misleading if you consider the possibility that many of them are on the downside of their careers.

 

When you create an aging team the possibility exists they all get old at the same time.

[witesoxfan]

2nd half 06, the entire 2007, and a month of 2008 say Hi

 

This is not a new phenomenon with this group

 

I really wish people would stop comparing the 2007 lineup to the 2008 lineup. They are totally different because there's actually a bit of developed talent in the 2008 lineup.

 

OH NOZ THEY ARENT GOOD YET who f***ing gives a s***, wait for the year to play out a bit before you declare the lineup terrible...I bet when the weather actually does warm up again, the Sox lineup takes off..you know, like what's happened for the past 5 years. They aren't good in April, it gets warm in May, June, July, and August, and the offense takes off.

 

For f***'s sake, they were playing in 3 inches of water on Monday, and playing in the dome in Minnesota always f***s with opponents, what with their fans helping the Twins and hurting others.