Sox batting average

[Vance Law]

I really wish people would stop comparing the 2007 lineup to the 2008 lineup. They are totally different because there's actually a bit of developed talent in the 2008 lineup.

 

Their uniforms, identical to the ones worn last year, say hi.

 

Let's see, you can't blame, Dye or AJ or Crede this year, they're all hitting well. You can't blame Swisher, Cabrera, or Quentin for having anything to do with the same old Sox hitting problem from last year since they weren't here. And Thome had an excellent season last year....that's 7 starters that completely fly in the face of the "These Sox couldn't hit last year still can't hit this year" 'theory.'

 

That theory having been disproven, I will use every muscle in my body to willfully ignore the fact that the Sox offense is 2nd in the AL in runs per game and blame the low team batting average through 26 games on their uniforms.

Edited May 1, 2008 by Vance Law

[StrangeSox]

Their uniforms, identical to the ones worn last year, say hi.

 

Let's see, you can't blame, Dye or AJ or Crede this year, they're all hitting well. You can't blame Swisher, Cabrera, or Quentin for having anything to do with the same old Sox hitting problem from last year since they weren't here. And Thome had an excellent season last year....that's 7 starters that completely fly in the face of the "These Sox would couldn't hit last year still can't hit this year" 'theory.'

 

That theory having been disproven, I will use every muscle in my body to willfully ignore the fact that the Sox offense is 2nd in the AL in runs per game and blame the low team batting average through 26 games on their uniforms.

 

You're still missing the point. I'm not saying "The 2007 White Sox couldn't hit, so the 2008 can't either because they are identical teams." You're making that straw man up on your own.

 

All I was saying is that you can say "they'll start hitting better" all you want, but there's no guarantee. AJ, Thome (he was right at his career avg for OBP, SLG, and OPS though), Konerko, and Dye all hit below their career averages last year, and they're on the wrong side of their prime years. Yes, this is a much better team than last year's simply because there won't be guys like Andy Gonzalez and Terrero getting regular AB's. But we still have a bunch of aging sluggers who may or may not hitter better as the year goes on.

 

I'm just sick of hearing excuses about the weather (games like Monday are a different factor). The games that they can't seem to hit in in April count just as much as the ones in July. Losing these games early because you strand 10+ runners and lose by a run or two may kill you coming down the stretch in September.

Edited May 1, 2008 by StrangeSox

[gosox41]

You're still missing the point. I'm not saying "The 2007 White Sox couldn't hit, so the 2008 can't either because they are identical teams." You're making that straw man up on your own.

 

All I was saying is that you can say "they'll start hitting better" all you want, but there's no guarantee. AJ, Thome (he was right at his career avg for OBP, SLG, and OPS though), Konerko, and Dye all hit below their career averages last year, and they're on the wrong side of their prime years. Yes, this is a much better team than last year's simply because there won't be guys like Andy Gonzalez and Terrero getting regular AB's. But we still have a bunch of aging sluggers who may or may not hitter better as the year goes on.

 

I'm just sick of hearing excuses about the weather (games like Monday are a different factor). The games that they can't seem to hit in in April count just as much as the ones in July. Losing these games early because you strand 10+ runners and lose by a run or two may kill you coming down the stretch in September.

 

 

I agree about the excuses. If Ozzie starts making excuses for not hitting then he turns into Dusty Baker.

 

Now it's time too rant because I'm PO'ed about this disturbing hitting trend.

 

THis stuff about not hitting in the Metrodome is a crock. It's 75 degrees. If the players are psyched out then go with a more speedy team n their so the Sox dont have to stress and make excuses abou the fans being turned on (the elctronic kind, not the people).

 

I don't want the team to start making excuses: It's too cold, it's too wet, it's too much of a dome, my hand hurts, me feelings are hurt, it's early, the Canadian dollar is too strong vs the US Dollar, we can't hit when we're in Canada because it's cold outside even though were in a dome---you all get the idea. I'm sick of the lack of execution. If players have problems like this, ship them out or DL them . I don't much care. But I do know I've the last 250 games or so, the Sox haven't hit well. And the simple fact is that the law of averages are kicking in and not hitting leads to lower OBP, which leads to less opps to score runs which miraculously leads to less runs. Novel idea.

 

 

If the Sox continue to hit below .250 as a team, I'd bet a lot of $$$ that by the end of the year they will not be in the top half of the AL in runs scored. The Sox started off hiting so well with RISP. A .243 hitting team isn't going to hit 90 pts higher in batting average with RISP over a marathon season.

 

Oh, and one more thing: don't bat Thome 3rd against lefties anymore. Rest him or demote him to like 7th because if you look at his OPS against lefties since the start of 2007 it is not so good. This one is on Ozzie.

 

 

Bob

 

What this offense is going through now is what I was afraid of with this team and why I wanted KW to break it up. A station to station team that can't even hit a freaking .250.

[witesoxfan]

If the Sox continue to hit below .250 as a team, I'd bet a lot of $$$ that by the end of the year they will not be in the top half of the AL in runs scored. The Sox started off hiting so well with RISP. A .243 hitting team isn't going to hit 90 pts higher in batting average with RISP over a marathon season.

 

I agree with all of this. I'll disagree with the notion that the Sox won't hit over .250

 

What this offense is going through now is what I was afraid of with this team and why I wanted KW to break it up. A station to station team that can't even hit a freaking .250.

 

I'll disagree with the notion that this team can't hit freaking .250.

[LVSoxFan]

Sorry, but this is 2007 creeping back in all over again.

 

How many freakin people left on base? Lots of solo homers? No thanks.

 

Bunts. Slap-hitting. Opposite field. Taking walks. We aren't going to do squat unless we start doing this. It's called f-u-n-d-a-m-e-n-t-a-l-s. Remember? Way back in 2005? Back then they called it smallball, Ozzieball, smartball... whatever.

 

We better fix this, and fast. Although I don't know how you do that with a lineup of feast-or-famine big boppers.

[NorthSideSox72]

Sorry, but this is 2007 creeping back in all over again.

 

How many freakin people left on base? Lots of solo homers? No thanks.

 

Bunts. Slap-hitting. Opposite field. Taking walks. We aren't going to do squat unless we start doing this. It's called f-u-n-d-a-m-e-n-t-a-l-s. Remember? Way back in 2005? Back then they called it smallball, Ozzieball, smartball... whatever.

 

We better fix this, and fast. Although I don't know how you do that with a lineup of feast-or-famine big boppers.

This team is 6th in the league and 9th in baseball in walks, and that's playing 2 less games than most teams to this point. They are taking plenty of them. The 2005 team won because of pitching, but secondarily, the many home runs they hit was also a factor. They were not a slap-hitting team. Big boppers are not a bad thing. And since when is slap-hitting part of fundamentals?

 

I agree that going oppo is part of good fundamental baseball, and they haven't done that lately - but they were in the earlier part of the month. Hopefully they can get back to that.

 

[southsideirish71]

Cheat breaks the April offense down. Edited May 2, 2008 by southsideirish71

[LVSoxFan]

What I mean by slap-hitting is singles. Singles, doubles, bloop singles... I don't care. Just get on the damn base. I'm sooooo tired after a year and a half of everybody trying to crush the ball and... popping out.

 

I know we hit home runs in 2005 but let's not kid ourselves that that's what got us to the big game--we hit situationally, we won a ton of one-run games, we irritated opponents on the bases. I remember a game against KC where we didn't even SCORE a run and we won (they walked in two).

 

My point about big boppers is that you usually have one or two in a batting order. Having a B.O. with lots of guys who tend towards feast or famine... well, welcome to 2004. Or 2007.

 

BTW greetings to you, fellow North Side Sox fan! I'm in Lakeview. Did you get a letter about the North Side Fan Appreciation Day game?

Edited May 2, 2008 by LVSoxFan

[WCSox]

I really wish people would stop comparing the 2007 lineup to the 2008 lineup. They are totally different because there's actually a bit of developed talent in the 2008 lineup.

 

And there are also the same aging, injury-prone sluggers in the middle of the lineup.

 

Agreed that Swisher, Quentin, Cabrera, and a healthy Crede will most likely mean that the '08 Sox will not resemble the '07 Sox offensively. That said, JD has fallen off tremendously since '06, Thome is in the twilight of his career, and Paulie is heading into the down-slope of his career. This lineup is good, but nobody's going to confuse them with the '99 Indians.

 

[LVSoxFan]

Why is everybody so quick to jump on me for the 2007 comparison?

 

I already listed why this feels like 2007, although I admit it is EARLY.

 

Lots of solo home runs. No base-stealing ability (okay, CQ is good at that). No oppo hitting. Very few bunts (at least BA tried the suicide squeeze, props for that call from Ozzie even if it didn't work). TONS of men left on base. Lots of pop-ups. Uribe is still in the lineup. We seem to score 9 runs or none, almost like every other day.

 

Yes, on PAPER it is not 2007. But on PAPER the 2006 team was better than 2005. Oops.

 

BTW did anyone check out SoutsideIrish's cool link to the breakdown by Cheat? Check this out: our BA with bases loaded since April 15th: .077

 

COUGH, COUGH. How poetic is that?

Edited May 2, 2008 by LVSoxFan

[WCSox]

But on PAPER the 2006 team was better than 2005. Oops.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say that. Given that many of the 2005 team's difference-makers were good-but-not-great and mediocre pitchers that had career years (Politte, Hermanson, Garland), it's not surprising that some of them either came back down to Earth or suffered injuries. It's also not surprising that vets like Contreras, Garcia, and Buehrle wore down with the previous year's heavy use (and not to mention several 200+ innings seasons prior to that).

 

The 2006 offense also out-scored the 2005 offense by 127 runs and the AL Central was a hell of a lot more competitive in 2006 than it was in the previous year.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Why is everybody so quick to jump on me for the 2007 comparison?

 

I already listed why this feels like 2007, although I admit it is EARLY.

 

Lots of solo home runs. No base-stealing ability (okay, CQ is good at that). No oppo hitting. Very few bunts (at least BA tried the suicide squeeze, props for that call from Ozzie even if it didn't work). TONS of men left on base. Lots of pop-ups. Uribe is still in the lineup. We seem to score 9 runs or none, almost like every other day.

 

Yes, on PAPER it is not 2007. But on PAPER the 2006 team was better than 2005. Oops.

 

BTW did anyone check out SoutsideIrish's cool link to the breakdown by Cheat? Check this out: our BA with bases loaded since April 15th: .077

 

COUGH, COUGH. How poetic is that?

No one is saying the offense isn't struggling. And certainly, their situational hitting has gone into the s***ter in the past 2 weeks. But it was ridiculously good the first two weeks, and frankly was bound to regress closer to the mean.

 

Saying this offense is struggling, which the 2007 team's was too, is true. But this lineup is just nothing like the 2007 one.

 

[LVSoxFan]

The only difference I can detect is Swish (who has a knack for getting on base but no speed) and CQ, the hidden surprise of this year. Thus far, Cabrera has been a wash offensively. Which leaves us with:

 

Thome

Konerko

AJ

Crede

Dye

Uribe

 

You could argue that adding somebody like Pods in '05 literally changed the whole look of the offense in that he was such a baserunning threat once he got on base (plus it helped to have Gooch behind him).

 

Not sensing that here. Got more of the feeling that we simply surrounded the big boppers with a different cast, but not a game-changing one.

 

But that .077 percentage is downright pathetic, early or not. I'm already starting to count how many games we lost where we stranded bases loaded runners with no runs, and it's only one month in.

[witesoxfan]

I know we hit home runs in 2005 but let's not kid ourselves that that's what got us to the big game--we hit situationally, we won a ton of one-run games, we irritated opponents on the bases. I remember a game against KC where we didn't even SCORE a run and we won (they walked in two).

 

PITCHING. Yeah they hit situationally, but if they didn't pitch as well as they did, they were f***ed three-times sideways before they would ever get the opportunity to be in that situation.

 

Secondly, the only player from the 2005 team that really did anything significant on the basepaths was Podsednik. There were a few others that got into double digits, but none were really ever a true threat to steal.

 

Smallball, with this lineup, is one of the worst ideas you could incorporate. The Sox offense has struggled the past couple games, but people really need to step away from the ledge. I honestly wouldn't be surprised in the least if this lineup scores 825-850 runs with how much power there is up and down the lineup. And I would imagine that, come around August or so, Fields could be called up and give the Sox a slightly fresh pair of legs and a huge bat off the bench for the stretch run.

 

Finally, I jump on anyone who compares this lineup to the 2007 lineup because by doing so, you are thus comparing Nick Swisher, Carlos Quentin, Orlando Cabrera, and a healthy Joe Crede to Darin Erstad, Scott Podsednik, Andy Gonzalez, Luis Terrero, Alex Cintron, Tadahito Iguchi (a stellar .722 OPS at the time of his trade), Josh Fields, and a banged up Joe Crede. Is that fair? I understand the offense is getting older, but I didn't see many people really slow down that much last year - Dye was banged up in the first half, but when he got healthy, he set the league on fire. Thome slowed down a tad, but he was still a fantastic hitter too. Konerko was actually right around his career average, though I expect him to be in about the .875 OPS range this season.

 

I'm not worried about this offense in the least. Just wait and let it play out until about mid-June or July before people start freaking out.

[gosox41]

I'm not worried about this offense in the least. Just wait and let it play out until about mid-June or July before people start freaking out.

 

 

The problem is that if we wait that long we can be chasing 2-3 teams and be 10 games out. Not insurmountable, but I don't think this team has the ability to come back from a 10 game deficit with 2/3 of the season left.

 

The reason I'm pissed is we saw this last year. How many more times do we need Thome to flail away at lefty pitching before Ozzie moves him in the line up or pinch hits him. The first game aside, Thome is pretty close to a guaranteed out against lefties.

 

I'm only concerned because the guys we're counting on aren't producing. While Terrero, Gonzalez, etc all sucked in '07, I don't recall Thome getting hot until August and by then it was over for this team. We hope the proven veterans will hit, but overall they didn't last year. The fact that it carried into this year is a concern now. It's not just 27 games. It's the end of '06, all of '07 and '08. The teams we're playing are dealign with the same playing conditions and they're hitting better then us, as they're beating us.

 

 

 

Bob