Would A Change at the Top Benefit the White Sox

[Chisoxfn]

TCSN: Would A Change at the Top Benefit the White Sox

By IamShack

 

Watching the White Sox over the course of the last few weeks, specifically Nick Swisher, I began to wonder if placing “Dirty 30″ in the leadoff spot is the best thing for the young outfielder acquired from Oakland in the offseason.

 

While Nick got off to a red-hot start for the White Sox, he’s just 4 for his last 32 with 6 walks, which pencils out to a .125 batting average and an on-base percentage of .313. Granted, coming into today’s action, Swisher has posted a .379 on-base percentage, and by that measure, he has fulfilled his role as the leadoff hitter admirably. What worries me, however, has been his slugging percentage (.366, down almost .100 points off his career average), and his lack of true speed.

 

Orlando Cabrera has been anointed the two-hole hitter almost from the moment he was acquired from the Angels in a deal that sent Jon Garland back home to Southern California. Cabrera has started slowly for the Palehose, but he’s too good for the hits not to come. His duties in the second slot require him to utilize his bat-handling skills to move the leadoff hitter along, whether that be via the bunt, the-hit and-run, or the simply going to the opposite field. That being the case, the early results of the Swisher/Cabrera tandem have been lukewarm, as hit-and-run attempts have gone awry, and OC’s above-average speed has been held up a bit with a slower man in front of him at times. I believe it may be time to flip-flop the two in order to take advantage of each player’s respective strengths a bit more.

 

Placing OC at the top of the lineup, while presenting a downgrade in on-base percentage, would add some needed speed at the top of the order. This might place more emphasis on Cabrera drawing walks, as he has been seen swinging quite wildly at the dish in recent games. It also would give Ozzie more options in the running game, as he seems to refuse to completely abandon his love for making things happen with the top of the order.

 

Most importantly, however, is the effect it might have on Nick Swisher. While Nick has always been a patient hitter with an excellent concept of the strike zone, he has also been a run-producer his entire career. Dropping him a spot in the order may allow him to become a bit more aggressive from a slugging standpoint, and he should see more fastballs with OC on the basepaths and Jim Thome behind him. I do truly enjoy having Swish’s ability to walk coming out of the leadoff spot, but if it comes at the cost of his run production, it may not be worth the price. Over the past 40-50 plate appearances, Nick seems caught in between trying to draw walks to get on base, and swinging aggressively to be the slugger he has always been.

 

Obviously this is not an optimal situation, as OC has a career on-base percentage of .320 and Swisher strikes out a bit more than you would like out of your two-hole hitter. However, considering there is really no perfect fit at leadoff on this ballclub, it may be something that takes more advantage of Swisher’s gap-power and OC’s speed and base-running ability.

[Bubba Philips]

TCSN: Would A Change at the Top Benefit the White Sox

By IamShack

Maybe the second coming of Richar would help.. Towards the end of last season he really started to show some promise. I believe he eventually could become our leadoff guy...

[Jeremy]

Swisher has slumped but I doubt it's because he's been batting leadoff.

 

Speed from a leadoff hitter is drastically overrated IMO.

[Balta1701]

Maybe the second coming of Richar would help.. Towards the end of last season he really started to show some promise. I believe he eventually could become our leadoff guy...

I could actually see it if he continued developing (he honestly might just be too streaky though) but either way he's still probably a month away at the earliest, assuming he performs well when his minor league rehab stint starts in a couple weeks.

[lostfan]

I could actually see it if he continued developing (he honestly might just be too streaky though) but either way he's still probably a month away at the earliest, assuming he performs well when his minor league rehab stint starts in a couple weeks.

Give him another 200-300 PA's before really considering it, unless we are out of contention IMO.

[greg775]

Are you all for a Richar for Uribe swap?

We could use another young guy's enthusiasm. Uribe sucks at the plate as many of you have pointed out all season.

 

Oops I just saw in another thread Richar is out til June. That's not good if that's true.

Edited April 30, 2008 by greg775

[iamshack]

I know I am in the vast minority here, but I'm starting to think Uribe should be the one playing shortstop with OC at second base.

 

Every play that isn't routine seems difficult with Cabrera. He seems like he is throwing a shotput over to first base. Juan has been magnificent at second base, but ss is the more important position.

[lostfan]

I know I am in the vast minority here, but I'm starting to think Uribe should be the one playing shortstop with OC at second base.

I don't think you're in the vast minority... I think most of us agree here that despite the fact that he is one of the 10 worst hitters in MLB, he is a better SS than Cabrera, Gold Glove or not. I guess the only reason I could see Cabrera being at SS over Uribe is the fact that Cabrera's bat is going to pick up eventually, and he will probably play the whole season there while there's a pretty good chance Uribe eventually gets sat for Richar, and it's easier to not have to bother re-adjusting Cabrera.

[chitownsportsfan]

Why is this stickied? Nick Swisher is a better hitter than Orlando Cabrera. He should get more PA. Replacing Uribe with Richar is another matter entirely and should be done ASAP.

[WilliamTell]

I think it's stickied because one of our own wrote it. It's a good read.

[iamshack]

Why is this stickied? Nick Swisher is a better hitter than Orlando Cabrera. He should get more PA. Replacing Uribe with Richar is another matter entirely and should be done ASAP.

 

It's a post I did for the TalkChicagoSports website.

[Chisoxfn]

It is stickied because we are promoting our in-network front page. Personally I enjoyed the article and I think IamShack brings up an interesting point regarding Swisher. On the OC front I am absolutely not a fan of having him leadoff.

 

I think OC is a natural fit in the 2 spot of the batting order because he isn't super speedy or high OBP enough to be a leadoff hitter, however he has great bat control and is incredibly smart and that is best utilized in the two spot (I'm telling you guys, OC will be just fine in Chicago...in fact I'll practically guarantee such barring some sort of significant injury).

 

However, Swisher is obviously not a natural a top the order. He has provided us with an above average OBP and that is a major plus and right now the Sox don't have a better option atop the order (they drastically need someone though, imo). The thing is, Swisher has changed his approach at the plate and this is preventing him from using his biggest strength (to go with the high OPB) and that is his above average power numbers. I think he feels he needs to do things different now that he is atop the order and while that helps the Sox at the top of the lineup it actually hurts the Sox because it means they don't get the most out of Swisher (who lower in the order would be a bigger asset to this offense because he could focus on the things he does best....long ab's, hitting for power/extra bases).

 

I really am a proponent of finding a way to tweak this lineup just a bit (whether it is moving one of the older bigger bats in the middle to free up space as well as acquire a leadoff hitter) or it is getting ballsy and making a big trade for a 2nd baseman that can leadoff (as opposed to waiting for Richar/Ramirez to develop cause neither of those guys can legitimately be expected to be leadoff hitters this season).

[Harry Chappas]

I think the Sox should trade Fields and Broadway for Roberts and suck up the cash and work a deal with Crede. Then move Quintin to the two spot and bat Cabrerra 9th until he shows he is the hitter he has been and hit Swisher 3rd. The inconsistency of the middle of this order has been there for two years and I am not certain it will magically reappear. There are way to many at-bats simply given away every night by many hitters in the line-up.

[southsideirish71]

I think the Sox should trade Fields and Broadway for Roberts and suck up the cash and work a deal with Crede. Then move Quintin to the two spot and bat Cabrerra 9th until he shows he is the hitter he has been and hit Swisher 3rd. The inconsistency of the middle of this order has been there for two years and I am not certain it will magically reappear. There are way to many at-bats simply given away every night by many hitters in the line-up.

 

Mr. Sabean you should get back to work.

[Harry Chappas]

Franchising changing trade, and for the worse. Ouch.

 

 

Terrible deal.

 

Only if you feel that Fields and Broadway will play up to their ceiling which I feel is their highest right now and neither will be anythign more than average players at best.

 

What exactly about this offense leads you to believe that they are not a reincarnation of the last two years. I pointed out in the game thread that 20% of the games played this year the offense did absolutely nothing (in an embarrassing sense) in regard to offensive prodution and they had no chance to not only win the game but barely scored and none of the pitchers were above average.

[Chisoxfn]

Franchising changing trade, and for the worse. Ouch.

 

 

Terrible deal.

I'd rather deal Paulie or Thome and let Fields play first. You could get more chips, stay young, and still have a pretty damn good offense (given the emergence of Carlos Quentin). The key of course is that one of the chips you get back is a legit, hopefully young, top of the order hitter (the other chip you get back should still be a top pitching prospect or a top shortstop prospect who can fill in and play when OC leaves this off-season).

 

I'd deal either one of Thome/Paulie if it got the Sox a top of the order hitter who could play 2B plus one high impact prospect (more is obviously better and ideally you get the 2B/Top SS Prospect/One Other Top Prospect (I'd lean to pitching wise just because you can never have too many pitching prospects).

[Chisoxfn]

Only if you feel that Fields and Broadway will play up to their ceiling which I feel is their highest right now and neither will be anythign more than average players at best.

 

What exactly about this offense leads you to believe that they are not a reincarnation of the last two years. I pointed out in the game thread that 20% of the games played this year the offense did absolutely nothing (in an embarrassing sense) in regard to offensive prodution and they had no chance to not only win the game but barely scored and none of the pitchers were above average.

Even if you feel that way you should at least trade them for what there value is and right now you could trade Josh Fields and swap him with another teams top prospect (or at least there is a good chance of being able to do such). Broadway maybe doesn't have as much value.

 

Now I'm not saying you could trade Fields for a top 10 prospect, but you could have him as a centerpiece in a deal that nets you a pretty damn good everyday player that is still young.

[Harry Chappas]

Even if you feel that way you should at least trade them for what there value is and right now you could trade Josh Fields and swap him with another teams top prospect (or at least there is a good chance of being able to do such). Broadway maybe doesn't have as much value.

 

Now I'm not saying you could trade Fields for a top 10 prospect, but you could have him as a centerpiece in a deal that nets you a pretty damn good everyday player that is still young.

 

If they could get a younger High OBP lead-off guy for middle infield that would be fine but I think they need to do something at the top of the order before losing becomes the norm ala last year. Swisher has stopped doing what he was doing earlier in the season and the offense has resorted to the post ASB 2006 team again. The rotation can not carry this team nor should that $7-15M a year hitters need to do their job.

[kapkomet]

PK = 10/5 = never going anywhere. We will have another 3 years of piss poor Aprils/Mays, passive aggressive double speaking bulls*** to deal with from PK. Yea!

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I know I am in the vast minority here, but I'm starting to think Uribe should be the one playing shortstop with OC at second base.

 

Every play that isn't routine seems difficult with Cabrera. He seems like he is throwing a shotput over to first base. Juan has been magnificent at second base, but ss is the more important position.

You're not alone. I agree.

[witesoxfan]

Only if you feel that Fields and Broadway will play up to their ceiling which I feel is their highest right now and neither will be anythign more than average players at best.

 

That has nothing to do with it at all. It has everything to do with value. You don't trade your two most valuable pieces for a role player, and that's what Brian Roberts is. If you trade those two, along with others, you have to get a star back in return, be it a pitcher or a hitter - that doesn't matter.

 

And quite honestly, I have no problem dealing Broadway for him. It's more Fields than anything else. He's by far, the most valuable minor leaguer right now.

 

What exactly about this offense leads you to believe that they are not a reincarnation of the last two years. I pointed out in the game thread that 20% of the games played this year the offense did absolutely nothing (in an embarrassing sense) in regard to offensive prodution and they had no chance to not only win the game but barely scored and none of the pitchers were above average.

 

Carlos Quentin, Nick Swisher > Darin Erstad and Scott Podsednik

 

ITS F***ING APRIL. Can we atleast wait until like June to declare that the offense is terrible?

 

It's so frustrating the way people are jumping to conclusions. It's May 1st and some people have essentially conceded that the season's over, some have declared that the offense is terrible, and some are trying to trade the Sox two best prospects for a 2Bman who won't make or break the lineup.

[almagest]

Carlos Quentin, Nick Swisher > Darin Erstad and Scott Podsednik

 

ITS F***ING APRIL. Can we atleast wait until like June to declare that the offense is terrible?

 

It's so frustrating the way people are jumping to conclusions. It's May 1st and some people have essentially conceded that the season's over, some have declared that the offense is terrible, and some are trying to trade the Sox two best prospects for a 2Bman who won't make or break the lineup.

 

We also don't have to worry about seeing Luis Tererro, Andy Gonzalez, or Alex Cintron either. Pablo's back, Crede's back and playing alright, Thome's not hurt, and Dye has no lingering injury concerns. We've also scored a ton of runs this year, and really only started to tail off within the past 5 or 6 games. Out of 162.

 

Yes, I am a little worried, and yes, it's disgusting watching the "offense" lately, but anyone up in arms about this team's offense needs to take it easy.

[witesoxfan]

We also don't have to worry about seeing Luis Tererro, Andy Gonzalez, or Alex Cintron either. Pablo's back, Crede's back and playing alright, Thome's not hurt, and Dye has no lingering injury concerns. We've also scored a ton of runs this year, and really only started to tail off within the past 5 or 6 games. Out of 162.

 

Yes, I am a little worried, and yes, it's disgusting watching the "offense" lately, but anyone up in arms about this team's offense needs to take it easy.

 

Someone that understands. Nice.

[lostfan]

I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm "up in arms" about the offense like the "trade Thome, force Dye to waive his NTC and trade him, DFA Konerko and call up Fields" crowd is but I'm definitely worried about the fact that the offense seems to completely disappear every couple of games, and the team struggles badly against certain types of pitchers. I just don't feel comfortable about that. On the other hand, they are prone to light up the rest of the types of pitchers at any given time.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

We also don't have to worry about seeing Luis Tererro, Andy Gonzalez, or Alex Cintron either. Pablo's back, Crede's back and playing alright, Thome's not hurt, and Dye has no lingering injury concerns. We've also scored a ton of runs this year, and really only started to tail off within the past 5 or 6 games. Out of 162.

 

Yes, I am a little worried, and yes, it's disgusting watching the "offense" lately, but anyone up in arms about this team's offense needs to take it easy.

Actually the Sox are 9-10 since they won 5 in a row.