the People's Champ Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 fathom said: Good luck trading PK now with his hand tendinitis. Can't trade him anyway he's a "5 and 10" guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxpranos Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (Soxpranos @ May 3, 2008 -> 01:52 PM) So is a player with an higher OPS better? What makes the player better , OPS or other factors? Still waiting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 3, 2008 -> 01:47 PM) I hate Jim Thome. There, I've said it again. It has nothing to do with him, he'll get his stats but he's not a winner. I f***ing hate "sluggers". Give me hitters who can also hit for power. Guys like Adam Dunn, Jim Thome are losers plain and simple. They don't know how to truly hit and because of that it is all "hit" or "miss" with them. I still say the offense has a lot of the tools, it just needs a bit of a tweaking (ie move Thome or Konerko and make some adjustments and try to get yourself a legit leadoff hitter so you can move Swisher down in the lineup). I came to this conclusion after the first three months he was with this team. He can say all the rights things to the media and be a nice guy, his approach and the way he goes about the game is poor, and like you said, not that of a winner. What's a shame is the problem with this offense revolves around the guys making the most money and are in the middle (Konerko, Thomas, Dye, although I have less issue with Dye). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (the People's Champ @ May 3, 2008 -> 06:56 PM) Can't trade him anyway he's a "5 and 10" guy He can still agree to the move, and if it was to someone on the west coast, I'm sure he'd agree to it. Same goes for Thome...unless he wants to retire without a WS ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Ah yes, our solo homer power owns you all!!! /sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 (edited) Damn, there goes the scoreless series. BTW, Thome's now at a fantastic .120 in the 7th inning and on! Edited May 3, 2008 by fathom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxpranos Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 3, 2008 -> 01:53 PM) I f***ing hate Thome. I mean hate. And I say that because I absolutley hate his style of baseball (ie, I'm going to either slug it 10000 feet or strike out or do something s***ty). He's not a hitter. Manny Ramirez, Pujols they both hit for power, but they also have tremendous approaches and that makes them dangerous hitters all the time, where as Thome has a horrid approach and just goes all hit or miss. The Sox need more legitimate "hitters" on this team and less pure "sluggers". Thome is also old and I still think he has trade value. I've been saying it for a long time too, this team will be better without Thome (because of what you can get by moving him and the fact that it should free up the Sox ability to move Swisher down and get a legitimate leadoff hitter which is something Ozzie needs). I know Thome will have top stats at the end of the day, but I completely don't buy into the bulls*** approach that OPS is king. I think it is important but also show me a hitters approach and how he's capable of coming up in the clutch. I also would have no problem if they moved away from Konerko (although Paulie typcially has a good approach, you can see his bat speed is slowing down and he has relied on that for a large chunk of his career). I'd say keep Dye cause he's signed pretty affordably. Oh and the pure slugging thing is one of the reasons I'm not as high on Josh Fields as most (because I don't see him being much different, but at least he has decent footspeed and can go from 1st to 3rd). You can still win by building around this rotation and making some more tweaks to make this lineup more athletic (and I don't just mean more speed, rather, more good baseball hitters and less pure sluggers). You my friend are a baseball mind, that is not limited to an OPS degree. Seems like you have played the game and understand it to a wider extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the People's Champ Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 fathom said: He can still agree to the move, and if it was to someone on the west coast, I'm sure he'd agree to it. Same goes for Thome...unless he wants to retire without a WS ring. Send him home to Zona, I'll take Conner Jackson in an even swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxpranos Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (the People's Champ @ May 3, 2008 -> 01:59 PM) Send him home to Zona, I'll take Conner Jackson in an even swap If the Diamond backs were only that dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the People's Champ Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Soxpranos said: If the Diamond backs were only that dumb. I can wish can't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxpranos Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (the People's Champ @ May 3, 2008 -> 02:01 PM) I can wish can't I? ya never know till Kenny tries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (Molto @ May 3, 2008 -> 10:57 AM) I came to this conclusion after the first three months he was with this team. He can say all the rights things to the media and be a nice guy, his approach and the way he goes about the game is poor, and like you said, not that of a winner. What's a shame is the problem with this offense revolves around the guys making the most money and are in the middle (Konerko, Thomas, Dye, although I have less issue with Dye). A healthy Dye has a very good approach. He gets cold but he's really the least of the squads worries. I'd make moves to try and get building blocks that are major league ready and consider moving Dye to LF or DH after dealing Paulie/Thome (with the idea you get two young potential stars out of the deal and 1-2 B prospects). Dye/Swisher/Quentin becomes your knew 3/4/5 and you find a leadoff hitter. AJ stays at 6, Crede at 7 and you slide Fields and other guys acquired into the lineup. Clearly it is all speculative, but Kenny could do far worse than moving those two guys becuase if you clear them the team gets a lot younger and should actually get more talented (long term, short term you take risks but again I say they haven't produced nor have we won recently anyway so try to build a more defensive base/speed lineup with younger guys who should continue to improve (which will fit since you are building a rotation around guys like Javy/Mark who still have a couple years left, plus Floyd/Danks who are getting better and better and maybe one other young prospect like Broadway or someone acquired via trade). The Sox rotation is rock solid, so why not try to retools the offense to something that can actually improve as opposed to an offense that is only getting worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 I'm really concerned KW will panic now and trade Fields and Poreda for Roberts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the People's Champ Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 fathom said: I'm really concerned KW will panic now and trade Fields and Poreda for Roberts. Not going to happen, I wouldn't worry about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxpranos Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ May 3, 2008 -> 02:03 PM) I'm really concerned KW will panic now and trade Fields and Poreda for Roberts. He better no do that, that solves nothing as he needs to Trade either Konerko or Thome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the People's Champ Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Soxpranos said: He better no do that, that solves nothing as he needs to Trade either Konerko or Thome. JR will just raise the white flag again. They didn't think this team was going anywhere this year anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (Soxpranos @ May 3, 2008 -> 11:00 AM) If the Diamond backs were only that dumb. Its too bad the only worthwhile guy the Pads really have to offer position wise is Adrian Gonzalez because I could see them having interest in picking up Paulie (problem is he plays the same position as Gonzalez). However, if the Sox dealt Paulie to some random team, I would have a lot of interest in acquiring Adrian Gonzalez, who is rock solid and will only get better moving away from Petco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 3, 2008 -> 02:03 PM) A healthy Dye has a very good approach. He gets cold but he's really the least of the squads worries. I'd make moves to try and get building blocks that are major league ready and consider moving Dye to LF or DH after dealing Paulie/Thome (with the idea you get two young potential stars out of the deal and 1-2 B prospects). Dye/Swisher/Quentin becomes your knew 3/4/5 and you find a leadoff hitter. AJ stays at 6, Crede at 7 and you slide Fields and other guys acquired into the lineup. Clearly it is all speculative, but Kenny could do far worse than moving those two guys becuase if you clear them the team gets a lot younger and should actually get more talented (long term, short term you take risks but again I say they haven't produced nor have we won recently anyway so try to build a more defensive base/speed lineup with younger guys who should continue to improve (which will fit since you are building a rotation around guys like Javy/Mark who still have a couple years left, plus Floyd/Danks who are getting better and better and maybe one other young prospect like Broadway or someone acquired via trade). The Sox rotation is rock solid, so why not try to retools the offense to something that can actually improve as opposed to an offense that is only getting worse. I don't like to assume I know what KW and Ozzie are thinking or aren't seeing, but I honestly feel that they don't see Thome and Konerko as part of the problem. I really think they are chalking it up to guys being cold and giving them time to come around, because if that wasn't the case, one of these two should've been traded/not signed to a five-year deal a couple years ago. I'm OK with Dye ... I think the problem is this team has a decent amount of outfielders that I'd rather see play. You're right. Ideally Dye is moved to left or put in a DH role, because I think he's easily the smartest hitter of the three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 I think Poreda will eventually be the next Billy Wagner (and I say that in a good way because Wagner when healthy was pretty dominate for a good long time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxpranos Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 3, 2008 -> 02:03 PM) A healthy Dye has a very good approach. He gets cold but he's really the least of the squads worries. I'd make moves to try and get building blocks that are major league ready and consider moving Dye to LF or DH after dealing Paulie/Thome (with the idea you get two young potential stars out of the deal and 1-2 B prospects). Dye/Swisher/Quentin becomes your knew 3/4/5 and you find a leadoff hitter. AJ stays at 6, Crede at 7 and you slide Fields and other guys acquired into the lineup. Clearly it is all speculative, but Kenny could do far worse than moving those two guys becuase if you clear them the team gets a lot younger and should actually get more talented (long term, short term you take risks but again I say they haven't produced nor have we won recently anyway so try to build a more defensive base/speed lineup with younger guys who should continue to improve (which will fit since you are building a rotation around guys like Javy/Mark who still have a couple years left, plus Floyd/Danks who are getting better and better and maybe one other young prospect like Broadway or someone acquired via trade). The Sox rotation is rock solid, so why not try to retools the offense to something that can actually improve as opposed to an offense that is only getting worse. I mentioned that a week or so ago and was jumped on how we cant trade guys with such good OPS and on their past accomplishments. I suggested, trade one at at ime and when one goes, be it Thome or Konerko.. bring up Fields and have play 1st or DH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Something to beat yourself up over....check out the stats of R. Furcal, who was just as likely to get traded for Garland as OC was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (Molto @ May 3, 2008 -> 11:08 AM) I don't like to assume I know what KW and Ozzie are thinking or aren't seeing, but I honestly feel that they don't see Thome and Konerko as part of the problem. I really think they are chalking it up to guys being cold and giving them time to come around, because if that wasn't the case, one of these two should've been traded/not signed to a five-year deal a couple years ago. I'm OK with Dye ... I think the problem is this team has a decent amount of outfielders that I'd rather see play. You're right. Ideally Dye is moved to left or put in a DH role, because I think he's easily the smartest hitter of the three. That is what scares me, they seem to like Thome/Paulie. I understand both are good guys in the clubhouse but there is more to things and this is coming from one of Paulie's biggest fans (me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 3, 2008 -> 08:08 PM) I think Poreda will eventually be the next Billy Wagner (and I say that in a good way because Wagner when healthy was pretty dominate for a good long time). I think he's the next Matt Thornton (and that's not really a bad thing). He can be a power lefty set-up man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ May 3, 2008 -> 02:03 PM) I'm really concerned KW will panic now and trade Fields and Poreda for Roberts. Not that far-fetched to think. Roberts is a lead-off hitter that would only improve the Sox on paper, which they already are good on. Nothing would change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxpranos Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 QUOTE (fathom @ May 3, 2008 -> 02:09 PM) I think he's the next Matt Thornton (and that's not really a bad thing). He can be a power lefty set-up man. I really hope we got more than a set up man for a 1st rnd pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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