White Sox Clubhouse and Sex Dolls

[Texsox]

I see the clubhouse as their house, especially, when they are on the road. Maybe we should restrict what music they listen to. Maybe we should restrict what they can watch on tv. Maybe we should restrict them from gambling or swearing. Maybe we should restrict them from playing pranks on each other. Maybe we should restrict them from giving each other the finger. Maybe we should restirct them from spraying beer and champagne. Where is the line drawn? It's enter at your own risk. That is the players domain. It is not a public place. They are not on the councourse. They are not in a hotel lobby. Nobody can just walk in there. A reporter has to have credentials and they are guests there. If they are offended by seeing a guys joint or naked ass, that is their issue. If they are offended by swearing...that is their issue. If they are offended by a childish immauture display of blow up dolls taking a bat in the arse.....that is their own issue. It is not their place to come into someone else domain and make policy. They are there to report on baseball. What else goes on is none of their business.

 

I think after this next game...when they open the doors to allow the reporters access ...every locker should just have a doll sitting there...because if reporters are going to report on topics besides baseball....they are gonna get about as much info from those dolls, as they are from the players

For the players entire careers reporters in the locker room have been a part of their lives. Right or wrong.

 

Where do we draw the line? Are you serious? Certainly you have a concept of acceptable and unacceptable behavior that will be reported to your fan base? You have got to be smart enough to know that this is not the image that the White Sox or MLB wants to portray. Because you don't know where to draw the line, are you saying there should not be a line?

 

Imagine if the Sox no longer where on ESPN because the team barred the reporters from reporting THE TRUTH. Great PR.

[Dick Allen]

For the players entire careers reporters in the locker room have been a part of their lives. Right or wrong.

 

Where do we draw the line? Are you serious? Certainly you have a concept of acceptable and unacceptable behavior that will be reported to your fan base? You have got to be smart enough to know that this is not the image that the White Sox or MLB wants to portray. Because you don't know where to draw the line, are you saying there should not be a line?

 

Imagine if the Sox no longer where on ESPN because the team barred the reporters from reporting THE TRUTH. Great PR.

Most players are assholes. What the White Sox did with those dolls and bats was wrong. What was your reaction when Ozzie called Marriotti a f**? If you did that in an office, there's a good chance you're headed out the door or at the very least to the HR dept.

[Texsox]

Idd still like to hear how this is even close to as bad as the kiss cam IN the stadium? If the problem with this is "harassment, making girls feel uncomfortable in the locker room or putting girls in an awkward situation" how is this even remotely close to as bad as the kiss cam? You dont think the kiss cam could very easily make a girl feel uncomfortable?

 

Imagine if this was your business. You have tens of millions invested. Tell me you want to see your employees, the guys you pay over $100 million a year to, creating a display with a latex doll and a bat shoved up it's ass.

 

Who is that going to sell more tickets to? Whose jersey will sell more because he finds latex dolls with bats up their ass useful in breaking out of a slump?

 

And for the record, I think the kiss cam is a terrible idea.

[WCSox]

At best, it was a stupid gesture by (probably) a newer player without the experience to know what a s*** storm could ignite.

 

I'm thinking it was AJ or Swisher, but completely agree about the stupid part.

 

At worse it acted out some horrible deep seated hatred of women.

 

That sounds more like political correctness than a reasonable explanation of motive.

 

Again, this is what happens when we hold pro athletes to such low standards and throw millions of dollars at them. And while I agree that what they did is not good for business, what's been going on behind closed doors for several decades is 100 times worse.

 

[Texsox]

Most players are assholes. What the White Sox did with those dolls and bats was wrong. What was your reaction when Ozzie called Marriotti a f**? If you did that in an office, there's a good chance you're headed out the door or at the very least to the HR dept.

 

I thought OZ was wrong, and took one more step towards the door. Oz will lose his job for costing the team fans not games.

[WCSox]

Oz will lose his job for costing the team fans not games.

 

For the Sox, losing games and losing fans pretty much go hand-in-hand. I don't think that Ozzie will cost the Sox fans with his mouth alone.

 

[The Critic]

And for the record, I think the kiss cam is a terrible idea.

 

Except at the Wolves games when they invariably put the camera on two members of the opposing team sitting next to each other on the bench.

Then it is COMEDY GOLD!!!!

 

[DrunkBomber]

Imagine if this was your business. You have tens of millions invested. Tell me you want to see your employees, the guys you pay over $100 million a year to, creating a display with a latex doll and a bat shoved up it's ass.

 

Who is that going to sell more tickets to? Whose jersey will sell more because he finds latex dolls with bats up their ass useful in breaking out of a slump?

 

And for the record, I think the kiss cam is a terrible idea.

I agree that it was a bad idea and in poor taste I just dont think it is remotely a big deal. Go to a construction site and see what those guys do and say. I still think the kiss cam is a good example. Even though you think its a terrible idea it is still used at every home game. I also still contest that this is 100x worse in terms of putting girls into uncomfortable situations but nobody complains about it. Anyone that is outraged by the blow up doll should have been paving the way to get rid of the kiss cam for years in the name of political correctness. The reason why nobody does is because the blow up dolls is the fresh new story. IMO the reaction that people seem to be having about this is EXACTLY what Flash Tizzle called "fake outrage." Instead of hearing how this emotionally scarred people who werent there feel I would rather hear the first hand account of a female member of the press who was there that day and who felt harassed and who is as shaken up about it as people are making it sound.

[lostfan]

Except at the Wolves games when they invariably put the camera on two members of the opposing team sitting next to each other on the bench.

Then it is COMEDY GOLD!!!!

 

I think that is stereotypical, offensive, and derogatory towards homosexuals.

[Controlled Chaos]

For the players entire careers reporters in the locker room have been a part of their lives. Right or wrong.

 

Where do we draw the line? Are you serious? Certainly you have a concept of acceptable and unacceptable behavior that will be reported to your fan base? You have got to be smart enough to know that this is not the image that the White Sox or MLB wants to portray. Because you don't know where to draw the line, are you saying there should not be a line?

 

Imagine if the Sox no longer where on ESPN because the team barred the reporters from reporting THE TRUTH. Great PR.

Everyone's thresholds are different. Some reporters may be very offended by certain curse words. Some may be offended by certain music...so by certain movies. What you find acceptable others may not. Clealry we can see that by this thread. I think there does need to be a line and after it's drawn then we can see what side positioning a blow up doll with a bat is on.

 

You act like these players did this with the White Sox or MLB's image in mind. They didn't think abotu that. It was done for each other....done for a laugh...done to stay loose and that's all. It had no meaning. It was immature and childish, but it wasn't done for the reporters and it wasn't done for the public and it's a shame reporters felt the need to discuss it. I think the clubhouse is their domain...I think they see it as that...

 

 

[DrunkBomber]

Everyone's thresholds are different. Some reporters may be very offended by certain curse words. Some may be offended by certain music...so by certain movies. What you find acceptable others may not. Clealry we can see that by this thread. I think there does need to be a line and after it's drawn then we can see what side positioning a blow up doll with a bat is on.

 

You act like these players did this with the White Sox or MLB's image in mind. They didn't think abotu that. It was done for each other....done for a laugh...done to stay loose and that's all. It had no meaning. It was immature and childish, but it wasn't done for the reporters and it wasn't done for the public and it's a shame reporters felt the need to discuss it. I think the clubhouse is their domain...I think they see it as that...

You and your damn logic

[The Ginger Kid]

I knew some people would over react to this, yet I still held out some hope that they wouldn't. Too bad. Support your team - what the Sox did was not a big deal, just some jocks having some fun, trying to keep things loose in a difficult time. Why must some moralize about this and try to place it in context of business ethics? That has no relevance in this situation.

[Soxbadger]

I told them not to watch the movie Major League.

 

Think of how offensive it was when after each game they won revealed more of their owner.

 

At that was a children's movie, I guess I dont see where all the outrage is.

 

Did anyone get hurt?

 

Where any laws broken?

 

There are a lot of worse things these players could be doing in the locker room, maybe its time the media got over themselves.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

It's amazing how some people can't take a joke.

[YASNY]

The work place. The place you report to on a daily basis to make your living. When you work for a company, you are always a representative of said company. In today's environment, in most cases, if you do something to publically embarrass your company you will lose your job unless your in a union of something. Even then, you will have a tough row to hoe. If you are the average working man, in almost all cases you'll be booted out on ass. I realize these guys aren't your average working man. But people, if you think you can pull a stunt like this on your job and get away with, for the most part you'll be seriously shocked upon your dismissal.

 

The players won't be 'fired' because they can hit major league pitching (I know, arguable at best) or they can get out ML hitters. But, they still have to deal with public perception and they are under a microscope compared to average working guy. They really should have known better. The entire team is being scutinized because of the actions of a few. If these reports are going to report on what happens in the clubhouse, then do it. Who did what? Why should Jim Thome have to be thrown under the bus when Nick Swisher did this? (hypothetically speaking on the players names for the case of making the point)

 

Wrong is wrong regardless of the circumstances under which the wrong occured.

[Felix]

This was a joke, a way of keeping loose. I can't believe this thread has gone on for 16 pages (EDIT: 17 now, weeeeeee). I realize some people find this sort of thing offensive, but its a locker room. What do you expect to be in a locker room? Despite the claims of some, locker rooms are not the standard work place. There are different rules for locker rooms than there are for offices, so I don't see why they should be held to the same standards.

 

Personally, I'm glad the locker room is loose enough where people can do this sort of thing, even when they're in the midst of a huge slump. I wouldn't want to be the fan of a team who runs a locker room where players can't joke around in ways that aren't always politically correct (*cough* Colorado Rockies *cough*)

Edited May 6, 2008 by Felix

[RockRaines]

The work place. The place you report to on a daily basis to make your living. When you work for a company, you are always a representative of said company. In today's environment, in most cases, if you do something to publically embarrass your company you will lose your job unless your in a union of something. Even then, you will have a tough row to hoe. If you are the average working man, in almost all cases you'll be booted out on ass. I realize these guys aren't your average working man. But people, if you think you can pull a stunt like this on your job and get away with, for the most part you'll be seriously shocked upon your dismissal.

 

The players won't be 'fired' because they can hit major league pitching (I know, arguable at best) or they can get out ML hitters. But, they still have to deal with public perception and they are under a microscope compared to average working guy. They really should have known better. The entire team is being scutinized because of the actions of a few. If these reports are going to report on what happens in the clubhouse, then do it. Who did what? Why should Jim Thome have to be thrown under the bus when Nick Swisher did this? (hypothetically speaking on the players names for the case of making the point)

 

Wrong is wrong regardless of the circumstances under which the wrong occured.

You people need to stop thinking of a baseball clubhouse as a business. You can look at their actions off the field, their professionalism in certain instances, but this is not a case where you can draw a comparison. Baseball is a kids game, they have several behavioral tendencies that wouldnt fly in a corporate environment, but it doesnt matter because its a baseball clubhouse. Look at their actions on the field, phyical harm, arguing, tobacco, hazing, drinking during celebration, swearing, breaking bats, none of that would fly in a board room, but its ok becasue they are not nearly the same circumstances.

 

I understand your frustration with the team but you and a few others are blowing this WAAAAY out of proportion, by equating it with sexism, sexual crimes and now saying that the public perception of the team has been harmed. I bet if you surveyed 100 people outside right now, maybe 2 have heard of the incident and probably neither care.

[greg775]

Great post by Yasny.

If the Sox front office execs or even interns had made such a shrine, there'd be hell to pay and they'd be fired today.

Still I can't help but think this is clubhouse stuff, boys will be boys, and no big deal.

What will get Oz fired, it seems to me, is he can't become a stuffy team spokesman that most teams want nowadays. He's too controversial and with the team not responding anymore, I'd suspect he'll be fired this season at some point if the team fades out of contention.

[RockRaines]

I realize some people find this sort of thing offensive, but its a locker room. What do you expect to be in a locker room? Despite the claims of some, locker rooms are not the standard work place. There are different rules for locker rooms than there are for offices, so I don't see why they should be held to the same standards.

They arent even close to the same thing, which is why making a big deal out of this is ridiculous and is an obvious outlet for the frustration of losing. Clubhouses and locker rooms do many things that arent even close to what are acceptable in a working environment, thats because they ARENT THE SAME THING.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

I wouldn't want to be the fan of a team who runs a locker room where players can't joke around in ways that aren't always politically correct (*cough* Colorado Rockies *cough*)

 

Haha excellent point. I forgot about that.

 

[Texsox]

Everyone's thresholds are different. Some reporters may be very offended by certain curse words. Some may be offended by certain music...so by certain movies. What you find acceptable others may not. Clealry we can see that by this thread. I think there does need to be a line and after it's drawn then we can see what side positioning a blow up doll with a bat is on.

 

You act like these players did this with the White Sox or MLB's image in mind. They didn't think abotu that. It was done for each other....done for a laugh...done to stay loose and that's all. It had no meaning. It was immature and childish, but it wasn't done for the reporters and it wasn't done for the public and it's a shame reporters felt the need to discuss it. I think the clubhouse is their domain...I think they see it as that...

 

The entire second paragraph shows why this was so wrong. For a hundred years for male reporters, over thirty years for female reporters, the locker room has been open to reporters. If after all this time, the players still think it is their private domain, they are the stupidest people on the planet. How could they possibly think it was private with all these strangers in there? For their entire major league career reporters have been walking into their locker room and reporting on what they see and hear. Now you are proposing they never knew this could happen?

 

The lines has been drawn, players exposing themselves to women reporters have been fined. Reporters acting inappropriately have been banned from clubhouses and locker rooms. Society has talked about sexual harassment for over a decade. How many more lines have to be drawn for these guys?

 

Here is an easy line to draw. If marketing will use this to sell tickets = good. If marketing will scream, fans will be outraged = bad.

 

It's their employer. It's their paychecks. These guys understand the marketing of the sport.

[Texsox]

They arent even close to the same thing, which is why making a big deal out of this is ridiculous and is an obvious outlet for the frustration of losing. Clubhouses and locker rooms do many things that arent even close to what are acceptable in a working environment, thats because they ARENT THE SAME THING.

 

no they AREN"T THE SAME THING. There are reporters coming in who will publicize what they see and hear.

 

Who thinks employees should be smart enough to act in a manner that reflects positively on the organization? Who thinks they should act in a manner that demeans the organization?

[hi8is]

saaaahhhh - weeeeet!

[WCSox]

I wouldn't want to be the fan of a team who runs a locker room where players can't joke around in ways that aren't always politically correct (*cough* Colorado Rockies *cough*)

 

If I were a free agent, I'm not sure that I'd want to sign with a team with such rules.

 

That said, Tex's point that they need to keep this out of the sight of the press is dead-on. I'm fine with these guys acting like obnoxious frat buy douchebags behind closed doors, but it can become a PR problem if it gets publicity.

 

[southsideirish71]

They arent even close to the same thing, which is why making a big deal out of this is ridiculous and is an obvious outlet for the frustration of losing. Clubhouses and locker rooms do many things that arent even close to what are acceptable in a working environment, thats because they ARENT THE SAME THING.

 

 

Dont you have these issues at your work Rock.

 

1999 Wall Street Journal article, retired NFL defensive end Reggie White wrote that he couldn't see a legitimate reason "for forcing male athletes to walk around naked in front of women who aren't their wives." White claimed to have seen female reporters "ogling guys in the locker room," and encouraged players to fight against equal access for female reporters.

 

My interview with Rooks was going well and I was starting to forget that I was standing in a crowded and enclosed room with a lot of naked men, until Travis Knight, a rookie from Connecticut, appeared. He needed to get to his locker, which, of course, I happened to be standing in front of. Everyone moved over a few steps and Knight, who at the time was graciously wearing a towel, maneuvered through the dense crowd.

 

I tried to forget that Knight was literally inches from me but at the same time was careful not to drop my tape recorder or make any sudden movements to the left. During my interview with Rooks, Knight, a 7-0 center, dropped his towel and you can guess what was practically laying in my notebook. When I grabbed my pen to continue taking notes I almost grabbed him instead.