"The Reaper is a-coming, kids."

[NorthSideSox72]

yeah, the players are obviously not to be held accountable for their poor performance. lol @ blaming the hitting coach for guys that are slumping, that've been in the league for 10+ years

i don't care who your hitting coach is, it's the players that have to translate that coaching to the field, and these guys aren't doing it, they're poor performance right now is obviously mental as they're pressing too much *because* of the slump, it's most likely making it worse. it has nothing to do with Greg Walker, ffs.

I get what you are saying, and indeed the players bear the biggest responsibility. But to say the hitting coach has nothing to do with how the team is hitting, including their approach at the plate, is off base. If that is true, then why have a hitting coach?

 

 

[Balta1701]

I get what you are saying, and indeed the players bear the biggest responsibility. But to say the hitting coach has nothing to do with how the team is hitting, including their approach at the plate, is off base. If that is true, then why have a hitting coach?

The other little issue is...it's a hell of a lot easier to change pitching coaches than it is to turn over a roster of guys like Thome, Konerko, and Swisher. No one's trading for them if they aren't hitting, and you can't exactly buy them out or bench them. In other words...changing a coach is about the only thing we can do.

[bigred3535]

yeah, the players are obviously not to be held accountable for their poor performance. lol @ blaming the hitting coach for guys that are slumping, that've been in the league for 10+ years

i don't care who your hitting coach is, it's the players that have to translate that coaching to the field, and these guys aren't doing it, their poor performance right now is obviously mental as they're pressing too much *because* of the slump, it's most likely making it worse. it has nothing to do with Greg Walker, ffs.

 

If the players are veterans who don't need coaching than why does every major league team have a hitting coach? That's such a simplistic and downright stupid way of putting things and I'm tired of Ozzie, reporters and fans saying that. If you've ever played a sport you know that a coach is there to tell players things that they can't see, because they are inside the slump and can't see their own swing or to gain a bigger perspective. They're supposed to be a trained set of eyes that can see what's wrong and attempt to help the players fix it. Walker clearly is not right for this team and a change needs to be made. Of course, a change won't be made...ever. This team is even more talented and frustrating to watch than last year's so far.

[Colorado Sox Fan]

yeah, the players are obviously not to be held accountable for their poor performance. lol @ blaming the hitting coach for guys that are slumping, that've been in the league for 10+ years

i don't care who your hitting coach is, it's the players that have to translate that coaching to the field, and these guys aren't doing it, their poor performance right now is obviously mental as they're pressing too much *because* of the slump, it's most likely making it worse. it has nothing to do with Greg Walker, ffs.

 

Extremely well put. People are always looking for a quick fix. You guys need to chill. This team is going to turn it around.

[StrangeSox]

Extremely well put. People are always looking for a quick fix. You guys need to chill. This team is going to turn it around.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard that...

[heirdog]

Extremely well put. People are always looking for a quick fix. You guys need to chill. This team is going to turn it around.

 

So veterans don't need hitting coaches to help them out of slumps?!? Why not just have minor league hitting coaches, then and when you have a young team (DBacks, Royals), bring up that hitting coach. I agree that its not 100% the hitting coach's fault but there must be some accountability in that job description...team is last in hitting, well it has to have something to do with the hitting coach. Or else, don't terminate Greg Walker, just eliminate the hitting coach position.

[joejoesox]

If the players are veterans who don't need coaching than why does every major league team have a hitting coach? That's such a simplistic and downright stupid way of putting things and I'm tired of Ozzie, reporters and fans saying that. If you've ever played a sport you know that a coach is there to tell players things that they can't see, because they are inside the slump and can't see their own swing or to gain a bigger perspective. They're supposed to be a trained set of eyes that can see what's wrong and attempt to help the players fix it. Walker clearly is not right for this team and a change needs to be made. Of course, a change won't be made...ever. This team is even more talented and frustrating to watch than last year's so far.

 

You're tired of Ozzie, and reporters saying it, oh.. you mean Baseball People. Gotcha. I have no doubt that Walker has told a lot of these guys what they're doing wrong, but ultimately it's up to the players to translate that information in their at bats. And they're not doing it. If you think Greg Walker just trots around, not dissecting their swings/approaches vs certain pitchers, amongst other things that hitting coaches do, then he WOULDN'T have a job because that kind of lethargic non-coaching wouldn't be tolerated by this organization. Walk is telling these guys what's wrong, they're just not able to execute this information right now because they're MENTALLY slumping, they're psyching themselves out at the plate, it's that simiple really. The only person who's going to get these guys out of a slump is themselves. Firing Walker is a knee-jerk reaction because your angry that you are helpless and can't do anything about these guys' poor performances, and only they can. Your lack of control of the situation is leading to this mob-mentality on firing him. Just my $.02

[Balta1701]

You're tired of Ozzie, and reporters saying it, oh.. you mean Baseball People. Gotcha. I have no doubt that Walker has told a lot of these guys what they're doing wrong, but ultimately it's up to the players to translate that information in their at bats. And they're not doing it. If you think Greg Walker just trots around, not dissecting their swings/approaches vs certain pitchers, amongst other things that hitting coaches do, then he WOULDN'T have a job because that kind of lethargic non-coaching wouldn't be tolerated by this organization. Walk is telling these guys what's wrong, they're just not able to execute this information right now because they're MENTALLY slumping, they're psyching themselves out at the plate, it's that simiple really. The only person who's going to get these guys out of a slump is themselves. Firing Walker is a knee-jerk reaction because your angry that you are helpless and can't do anything about these guys' poor performances, and only they can. Your lack of control of the situation is leading to this mob-mentality on firing him. Just my $.02

Well, let me reply to this with a simple question. How exactly can removing Greg Walker make this team worse?

[heirdog]

The problem is...I think every one of those things you suggest is a possibility...and every single one of them winds up giving the a spot of someone on the current team to someone who is performing worse than the current person. Owens isn't lighting the world on fire down at AAA yet he knocks Anderson out of the rotation. Swisher isn't performing, yet he takes time away from Konerko/Dye/Thome, with BA the odd man out again. Fields isn't lighting the world on fire at AAA, but he replaces Crede. Ramirez has looked terrible yet he replaces Uribe. Ozuna has looked bad, but Bourgeois is hitting around .220 at AAA.

 

I think you're mixing up performance to date vs. how they are currently performing.

 

Crede started off red hot but to come back down to the .248 after his fast start...screams to me that he is struggling. Fields started off extremely cold in AAA and has since raised his avg albeit, he has hit a tough patch again...a call-up may shake things up.

 

You don't know what you have with Ramirez with consistent at-bats. In the spring, with consistent ABs he was solid. You know what you have with Uribe...sub .200 and a ton of wasted at-bats.

 

Before yesterday, Bourgeious was tearing the cover off the ball in his last 8 games. He may be hot right now so take advantage of it.

 

Swisher doesn't take anything away from anyone but gives each player a day's rest. Anderson's role really doesn't change. I agree that he could have a bigger role but my changes are to infuse some speed, energy and fresh hitters into the line-up...not a means of getting Anderson more or less PT.

 

 

[joejoesox]

Well, let me reply to this with a simple question. How exactly can removing Greg Walker make this team worse?

 

How exactly does taking one's job away, make this team better? I'll NEVER resort to that sort of tactic to remedy a situation unless that's the CLEAR solution to the problem. That's not the case here, I can't justify taking his job away from him because of this. Swisher came to this team and in spring training, the first person he went to for hitting advice was Jim Thome, not Greg Walker. That doesn't speak towards Walkers lack of knowledge, but more to the fact that Thome is an established hitter, HE is the one that goes to the plate and swings the bat, and has an established career. Just like when Frank went to Oakland, Swisher always followed him around getting advice on all the little nuances of hitting, not the A's hitting coach.

 

But hey, it's not your job that's being lost right? So let's fire him.

 

That's total Bull**** if you ask me

[heirdog]

You're tired of Ozzie, and reporters saying it, oh.. you mean Baseball People. Gotcha. I have no doubt that Walker has told a lot of these guys what they're doing wrong, but ultimately it's up to the players to translate that information in their at bats. And they're not doing it. If you think Greg Walker just trots around, not dissecting their swings/approaches vs certain pitchers, amongst other things that hitting coaches do, then he WOULDN'T have a job because that kind of lethargic non-coaching wouldn't be tolerated by this organization. Walk is telling these guys what's wrong, they're just not able to execute this information right now because they're MENTALLY slumping, they're psyching themselves out at the plate, it's that simiple really. The only person who's going to get these guys out of a slump is themselves. Firing Walker is a knee-jerk reaction because your angry that you are helpless and can't do anything about these guys' poor performances, and only they can. Your lack of control of the situation is leading to this mob-mentality on firing him. Just my $.02

 

You're right, Greg Walker has probably pointed out some fixes for the players which leads you to a few conclusions based off the piss poor results for pretty much the entire team to date (and last year as well)

 

1) Greg Walker isn't finding the right fixes

2) Greg Walker isn't effectively communicating the quick fixes

3) The players aren't responding to Greg Walker

 

All of which are more likely than the following conclusion which Greg Walker supporters would like us to believe:

 

1) Greg Walker has found the mistakes and communicated them effectively. The players are responding to the coaching and just about every one of them (including career .280/.290, future Hall-of-Famers) are struggling to execute the fine plan he has laid out.

 

If Thome is struggling or Konerko is struggling, its one thing and its on them. But to have 1 full year and more than a month now when almost the entire line-up is struggling...well something's just not right. These are not the same guys as last year too so it smells even more of a poor approach to managing or coaching slumps.

[NorthSideSox72]

How exactly does taking one's job away, make this team better? I'll NEVER resort to that sort of tactic to remedy a situation unless that's the CLEAR solution to the problem. That's not the case here, I can't justify taking his job away from him because of this. Swisher came to this team and in spring training, the first person he went to for hitting advice was Jim Thome, not Greg Walker. That doesn't speak towards Walkers lack of knowledge, but more to the fact that Thome is an established hitter, HE is the one that goes to the plate and swings the bat, and has an established career. Just like when Frank went to Oakland, Swisher always followed him around getting advice on all the little nuances of hitting, not the A's hitting coach.

 

But hey, it's not your job that's being lost right? So let's fire him.

 

That's total Bull**** if you ask me

So, if the team having such lousy approaches for so long, despite having different personnel (some) over time... what is a valid reason to fire a hitting coach?

 

[heirdog]

Swisher came to this team and in spring training, the first person he went to for hitting advice was Jim Thome, not Greg Walker. That doesn't speak towards Walkers lack of knowledge, but more to the fact that Thome is an established hitter, HE is the one that goes to the plate and swings the bat, and has an established career. Just like when Frank went to Oakland, Swisher always followed him around getting advice on all the little nuances of hitting, not the A's hitting coach.

 

But hey, it's not your job that's being lost right? So let's fire him.

 

That's total Bull**** if you ask me

 

If players don't use the hitting coach, then the hitting coach is unnecessary. So either way, get rid of him. If players aren't going to him, then the position is not needed. If the players are going to him, then he hasn't been effective and should be replaced.

 

And please don't tell me that Carlos Quentin is the only one that Walker is working with....

[joejoesox]

If players don't use the hitting coach, then the hitting coach is unnecessary. So either way, get rid of him. If players aren't going to him, then the position is not needed. If the players are going to him, then he hasn't been effective and should be replaced.

 

And please don't tell me that Carlos Quentin is the only one that Walker is working with....

 

So if we don't need a hitting coach, get rid of him? What point does that serve, other than to free up about a few dollars that won't be significant enough to improve the ball club in any facet of the game. Knee-jerk.

[heirdog]

So if we don't need a hitting coach, get rid of him? What point does that serve, other than to free up about a few dollars that won't be significant enough to improve the ball club in any facet of the game. Knee-jerk.

 

Absolutely. I'm not sure why that is such a hard concept to understand. If you don't need something, you discard of it.

Fine, in the most conservative sense, you could save him for a rainy day with the hope that he becomes useful.

 

But that is if...and that's a big if...he isn't a detriment to a team (we are a terrible hitting team over 1+ seasons now) and two, if you actually did need to use him, he would be effective.

[scenario]

Before yesterday, Bourgeious was tearing the cover off the ball in his last 8 games. He may be hot right now so take advantage of it.

 

You just want to look at his last 8 games 'before yesterday'... interesting. Why not the last 10 games including yesterday?

 

I guess averages look much better when you don't have to factor in the 0 for 5 days, eh?

 

BTW - in the last 10 games Bourgeois (12hits/39at-bats) and Getz (10/33) are batting roughly the same average-wise (.308 vs. .303).

 

But of Bourgeois' 12 hits, he has 1 double and 11 singles.

 

Getz's 10 hits include 7 singles, 1 double, and 2 homeruns.

 

 

[Lemon_44]

Maybe a "new" set of eyes could help out the hitters. Last year the Dodgers removed Eddie Murray as their hitting coach when the team was hitting .261 in the middle of June. They finished up the year with a .275 team BA and that was 2nd in the league. Now,the year before, with Murray as the hitting coach, they led the league in BA(and runs scored i believe). So either the players just hit up to their levels after Murray was canned or a new, fresh approach was needed to get the players back on track. Walker has been around for how many years now? Maybe something new would help the club out.

[SoxFan562004]

I'm not expecting much other than KW and Ozzie to take shots at the fans and then say how they can't believe this lineup isn't hitting... oh and talk about how awesome Walker is

Edited May 6, 2008 by SoxFan562004

[Balta1701]

Maybe a "new" set of eyes could help out the hitters. Last year the Dodgers removed Eddie Murray as their hitting coach when the team was hitting .261 in the middle of June. They finished up the year with a .275 team BA and that was 2nd in the league. Now,the year before, with Murray as the hitting coach, they led the league in BA(and runs scored i believe). So either the players just hit up to their levels after Murray was canned or a new, fresh approach was needed to get the players back on track. Walker has been around for how many years now? Maybe something new would help the club out.

On the other hand, in 2005, the Indians started the season out with Eddie Murray as their hitting coach, started out in a slump, fired and replaced him, and got super-hot for about 2 months with the bats.

[Vance Law]

On the other hand, in 2005, the Indians started the season out with Eddie Murray as their hitting coach, started out in a slump, fired and replaced him, and got super-hot for about 2 months with the bats.

 

then 3 years later you used it in a post as "evidence" of causality.

 

[Balta1701]

then 3 years later you used it in a post as "evidence" of causality.

Or...it could have just been a case of the team starting off cold and regressing towards the mean as the season went on.

[Kalapse]

Uribe is in the lineup for tonights game FWIW.

[southsideirish71]

Uribe is in the lineup for tonights game FWIW.

 

Cowley is working quickly towards full bombarder status.

 

 

 

[heirdog]

You just want to look at his last 8 games 'before yesterday'... interesting. Why not the last 10 games including yesterday?

 

I guess averages look much better when you don't have to factor in the 0 for 5 days, eh?

 

BTW - in the last 10 games Bourgeois (12hits/39at-bats) and Getz (10/33) are batting roughly the same average-wise (.308 vs. .303).

 

But of Bourgeois' 12 hits, he has 1 double and 11 singles.

 

Getz's 10 hits include 7 singles, 1 double, and 2 homeruns.

Can getz play OF too? I was replacing Ozuna's superutility role not comparing getz and bourgeois.

 

 

[RockRaines]

Honestly, if they dont hit tonight, I wanna see heads roll, just to see if it helps.