Michigan Democratic Delegate Deal - unconfirmed

[Balta1701]

This is different from the original position that Obama opposed isn't it?

 

In Florida, I can't see anything short of a revote solving that.

The previous position of the Obama campaign has been that since neither side campaigned in those states, there should be some sort of even split, 50-50, and usually someone will add that each state should lose 1/2 the size of its delegation as penalty, so that no one picks up ground.

 

But, the Obama campaign is in a position now where their delegate lead is so strong that they can actually afford to give Hillary 20-40 delegates across those 2 states if it simply shuts down one of her remaining arguments, that it's so important to seat these 2 states.

[Texsox]

Exactly.

 

The amazing thing is, this actually hurts Hillary. Because his margin ahead of her is so big compared to the amount of delegates left, all this does is move it closer to completion.

 

Could be Obama driving the bus, which is what I thought first. Great offensive move on his part.

[HuskyCaucasian]

The Clinton campaign's Communications Director Howard Wolfson just said they have serious issues with the proposed solution because it does not "accurately and completely" reflect how the people of Michigan voted.

[Balta1701]

The Clinton campaign's Communications Director Howard Wolfson just said they have serious issues with the proposed solution because it does not "accurately and completely" reflect how the people of Michigan voted.

In other words, they can't allow a solution, because allowing a solution other than 60% clinton and 40% unpledged hurts them, and they're better off keeping things muddled as long as they can because then they can keep saying that they're staying in the race to protect the brave voters of Michigan and Florida.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Given the proposed solution, Clinton would need 86% of remaining pledged delegates to win.

 

Also, based on the MI vote, Clinton is projected to get 73 delegates with 55 left hanging in limbo. My guess is the CLintons want her to get all 73 and leave the 55 uncommitted. I think they would be 100% AGAINST even giving Obama the 55 because they dont accurately reflect the vote. So, even a 73-55 split is not ok with them.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Official Linky

[Steve9347]

I love that we're now just making up numbers and handing out unearned/uncontested delegates. This process is so legit.

[Texsox]

Believe it or not, this is probably more legit then when the parties got together at a convention, and in closed door, smoke filled, backroom, deals. Made or broke careers and politicians.

[knightni]

and in closed door, smoke filled, backroom deals.

 

This is the Democratic Party we're talking about. Al Gore would never allow it.

[Balta1701]

This is the Democratic Party we're talking about. Al Gore would never allow it.

Tobacco is a perfectly renewable energy source.

[knightni]

Tobacco is a perfectly renewable energy source.

Yes, but think of the emissions.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Hillary Clinton Rejects Latest Michigan Delegate Plan

Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Rodham Clinton on Thursday rejected a compromise plan to seat Michigan’s delegates to the national convention that would give 69 delegates to Clinton and 59 to Barack Obama.

 

“This proposal does not honor the 600,000 votes that were cast in Michigan’s January primary. Those votes must be counted,” Clinton spokesman Isaac Baker said.

 

The Michigan Democratic Party had approved the plan and intended to submit it to the Democratic National Committee meeting on May 31. Michigan Democratic Party Chairman Mark Brewer said in a statement that the plan was a “good step toward a solution that unites Democrats and ensures that our state will not face a McCain presidency.”

 

Clinton’s campaign has maintained that the delegation should be allocated according to the vote in the Jan. 15 primary (73/55) but Obama’s campaign had argued the delegation should be split between the two candidates (64/64) because he was not on the ballot. Clinton won that contest with 55 percent of the vote but most of the other major party candidates, including Obama, had removed their names from the ballot because the state violated national party rules.

[lostfan]

I don't know why Hillary is trying to prevent Michigan's delegates from being seated.

[StrangeSox]

Of course she rejects this plan. She cannot give Obama a fraction of an inch at this point.

[Balta1701]

Of course she rejects this plan. She cannot give Obama a fraction of an inch at this point.

It's not that. It's that if she can get the "Uncommitted" block from Michigan to go uncommitted while she gets the fully pledge block, that's a 100-0 or so shift in her favor. Which is absolutely ridiculous, but it's the only way she can call herself back in the race, to count everything in Michigan that went for her as going for her and give Obama absolutely nothing.

[lostfan]

It's not that. It's that if she can get the "Uncommitted" block from Michigan to go uncommitted while she gets the fully pledge block, that's a 100-0 or so shift in her favor. Which is absolutely ridiculous, but it's the only way she can call herself back in the race, to count everything in Michigan that went for her as going for her and give Obama absolutely nothing.

How bout this then. Give her the difference in delegates between votes for her and votes for "uncommitted" which will be a handful, and give Obama nothing. Because essentially almost half of Michigan Democrats had the chance to vote for her as opposed to nobody else but instead voted "anybody but Clinton" so hey, why shouldn't they just cancel the other votes out since they don't count for anybody else?

[Balta1701]

How bout this then. Give her the difference in delegates between votes for her and votes for "uncommitted" which will be a handful, and give Obama nothing. Because essentially almost half of Michigan Democrats had the chance to vote for her as opposed to nobody else but instead voted "anybody but Clinton" so hey, why shouldn't they just cancel the other votes out since they don't count for anybody else?

Anything other than a 100/0 split is going to be vetoed by the Clinton campaign.

[Steve9347]

Clinton won that contest with 55 percent of the vote but most of the other major party candidates, including Obama, had removed their names from the ballot because the state violated national party rules.

It's a joke that she would think she is deserving of the 100% vote. The fact that she could only get 55% when all the candidates with a true chance took their names off the ballot says a lot.

 

WHY ARE WE CONSIDERING ALLOWING THESE VOTES WHEN MICHIGAN VIOLATED THE NATIONAL PARTY RULES AND KNEW THEIR VOTES WOULDN'T COUNT!?!?!?!?

 

WTF WTF WTF I hate Hillary!

[StrangeSox]

It's a joke that she would think she is deserving of the 100% vote. The fact that she could only get 55% when all the candidates with a true chance took their names off the ballot says a lot.

WHY ARE WE CONSIDERING ALLOWING THESE VOTES WHEN MICHIGAN VIOLATED THE NATIONAL PARTY RULES AND KNEW THEIR VOTES WOULDN'T COUNT!?!?!?!?

 

WTF WTF WTF I hate Hillary!

 

Do you want the chance of FL and MI going to Obama in November?

[Steve9347]

Do you want the chance of FL and MI going to Obama in November?

Yes. They knew the rules beforehand though, and now Hillary's going to string this till the end.

[Texsox]

It's a joke that she would think she is deserving of the 100% vote. The fact that she could only get 55% when all the candidates with a true chance took their names off the ballot says a lot.

 

WHY ARE WE CONSIDERING ALLOWING THESE VOTES WHEN MICHIGAN VIOLATED THE NATIONAL PARTY RULES AND KNEW THEIR VOTES WOULDN'T COUNT!?!?!?!?

 

WTF WTF WTF I hate Hillary!

 

Because there are actual people in Michigan, hundreds of thousands who took the time to go vote. Good honest Americans who decided on that day to be part of democracy in America, regardless of what a handful of party officials did. In this country we have a deep respect for each person's vote, and will leap over any hurdles to make each and every vote counts in some way. It truly is one way we are so different than most other countries, we'll move heaven and earth for even one voter.

 

Some states have all or nothing primaries, so that option is not without precedence. Assuming a vote for "A" is really for "B" is tenuous at best. It is a long shot strategy, but W. Clinton was a long shot and won.

[BigSqwert]

Because there are actual people in Michigan, hundreds of thousands who took the time to go vote. Good honest Americans who decided on that day to be part of democracy in America, regardless of what a handful of party officials did. In this country we have a deep respect for each person's vote, and will leap over any hurdles to make each and every vote counts in some way. It truly is one way we are so different than most other countries, we'll move heaven and earth for even one voter.

 

Some states have all or nothing primaries, so that option is not without precedence. Assuming a vote for "A" is really for "B" is tenuous at best. It is a long shot strategy, but W. Clinton was a long shot and won.

But the results in Michigan are not a true representation of how the people would have voted. How many people stayed home knowing or at least thinking their vote would not count? Allocating delegates based on their results just doesn't jive for me.

[Texsox]

But the results in Michigan are not a true representation of how the people would have voted. How many people stayed home knowing or at least thinking their vote would not count? Allocating delegates based on their results just doesn't jive for me.

 

Absolutely true, but unlike most countries where voting is a sham at best, we will actually spend a lot of resources in trying to give the voters in Michigan a voice. In most countries it just would not matter and the default position would be, who cares?

 

I think we are better served when everyone's vote is so important we go through this and try to make sense of something fair.

[BigSqwert]

Absolutely true, but unlike most countries where voting is a sham at best, we will actually spend a lot of resources in trying to give the voters in Michigan a voice. In most countries it just would not matter and the default position would be, who cares?

 

I think we are better served when everyone's vote is so important we go through this and try to make sense of something fair.

IMO there are 2 options for Michigan. A revote or 50/50 split. Those seem like the only 2 fair things to do given the circumstances.

[Texsox]

IMO there are 2 options for Michigan. A revote or 50/50 split. Those seem like the only 2 fair things to do given the circumstances.

 

There are problems with any sort of revisionist solutions. Basically they will come down to a best guess as to what the voters would have done, and that can never, except by accident, by accurate.

 

Revoting has its problems as well. Cost comes to mind. Lots more new information. But I have forgotten, wasn't the issue that voted too soon anyways? WOuld they not now be doing what the DNC wanted them to do?