Feast or Famine White Sox Offense will Take Years to Fix

[Steve9347]

Feast or Famine: White Sox Offense Will Take Years to Fix

By Steve Harnden

TCSN (Talk Chicago Sports Network)

 

After a breakout game on Tuesday night where the White Sox scored a whopping seven runs, the outlook of the 2008 offense seemed to turn.

 

Some of the posts on this site were quite positive following the 7-1 victory that included Gavin Floyd’s second dance with no-hit glory.

 

”Safe to say that the fuse is lit?”

 

“Now that is a slumpbuster!”

 

“I was there, and that's the best game I've seen since Elvis night last year… We ran bases, hit singles... perfect.”

 

My how things can change in just 24 hours: the Sox followed up that “huge win” with a 13-1 loss to a largely punchless Minnesota Twins lineup. Yet again, it was blatantly obvious what is wrong with this team: they have no speed, no one who hits for average, no ability to hit with runners in scoring position.

 

This offense, 1-9, is not made to score runs. In the book, Moneyball, Oakland Athletics GM Billy Beane surmised that a lineup comprised solely of Scott Hatteberg’s (known for his good OBP) could score the most runs in baseball. The White Sox seemed to have opened this book up prior to this season to acquire a few high OBP players in Nick Swisher and Carlos Quentin. However, lately, this is not translating into runs scored.

 

The following are the OBP of the White Sox’ standard lineup:

 

Orlando Cabrera: .287

Carlos Quentin: .397

Jim Thome: .341

Paul Konerko: .359

Jermaine Dye: .319

AJ Pierzynski: .348

Nick Swisher: .340

Joe Crede: .311

Juan Uribe: .229

 

Ok, so it’s not exactly Hatteberg territory, but the White Sox team largely is doing an alright job of getting on base. However, the team leader in batting average is Pierzynski at .299, with the rest of the starters holding the following averages: .209, .269, .212, .223, .264, .207, .250, .187. At some point the White Sox have to start getting hits in order to produce runs. Unfortunately, this roster is loaded with players who swing for the fences too often, strike out too often, and mostly reach base on walks. It takes a lot of successful at bats in a row to score a run when every player on the team has station-to-station speed and can’t get a clutch single or even, my word, a double.

 

Hawk Harrelson quipped last year that “he’d never seen a team go cold all at once” like the 2007 Chicago White Sox. Everyone claimed that it could never be as bad as it was last season, but guess what? The 2008 Chicago White Sox, with their new prizes inserted in the offense, yet again have the worst team batting average in the majors. Pundits who claim that batting average means less than on base percentage need only look at how this team has performed the last two weeks.

 

The in-house options to rectify this situation are bleak. There is probably one player in our minor leagues who has a prayer of ever hitting .300 in the big leagues, and his name is Jerry Owens. Owens happens to be 27 years old already and though he has speed, he can’t hit anything other than singles. Josh Fields, the franchise’s one and only legitimate offensive prospect, could struggle to ever hit .250 on the Major League level.

 

Owners of a top 10 draft pick in the 2008 MLB Entry Draft, the White Sox would do themselves well to draft for average. Players that hit strictly for power are always nice, but you can’t have 8 of them in the same lineup at one time. A lineup must be constructed from the top to the bottom to be a well-oiled machine. The White Sox are anything but, and are squandering what has turned out to be a promising pitching staff.

 

The solution is not a simple one. It may take years for the White Sox to rectify the situation. By the time this offense can be fixed, Paul Konerko, Jermaine Dye, Jim Thome, and AJ Pierzynski will be long gone. Of the players in the system, only 6 can be seen as possible starters beyond 2011: Carlos Quentin, Josh Fields, Jerry Owens, Nick Swisher, Alexei Ramirez, and possibly Danny Richar. Some surprises are sure to pop up, but I’d much rather have some real talent to depend on coming up and producing in the future.

 

The White Sox are in need of an overhaul. Of the six players listed above, only one was drafted by the White Sox (Josh Fields). Kenny Williams did the franchise well by acquiring John Danks, Gavin Floyd, and Carlos Quentin. Unfortunately, this is just a small start that does not negate the fact that this organization needs to be overhauled from the scouts all the way to the Major League roster. Hopefully the White Sox can unload some of these veterans who won’t be around the next time this offense is competitive for players that can help in the future, but the best way to build a franchise is to draft well.

 

Drafting well, however, is not a strong suit of this franchise.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Chisoxfn

[LVSoxFan]

Can't argue with this much.

 

Hell one of my Sox friends last night was talking that it's time to have our fire sale, unless you want to take this into the ASB.

[jasonxctf]

great points all the way. this team is full of 2B's and HR hitters.. similar to the team of 2004 with Mags, Lee, Valentin, Thomas, Alomar/Olivo, etc.

 

This team has been designed to act differently with Cabrera and Swisher however they have fallen into the hitting mindset of Konerko, Thome, Dye, AJ, etc.

[scenario]

Well written, but I'm not into articles that pander to "the glass is freakin' empty" crowd... which is what this is IMO.

[shipps]

Can't argue with this much.

 

Hell one of my Sox friends last night was talking that it's time to have our fire sale, unless you want to take this into the ASB.

Hell you could trade Konerko,Thome,Dye, and Crede which would be considered a fire sale and possibly have a team that has a better shot to win THIS year.

[rangercal]

If the sox Must have a fire sale, they might as well do it right.

 

as far as hitters go:

 

Keepers

Carlos Quinten

Nick Swisher

Brian Anderson

Josh Fields

AJ Pierzynski

Danny Richar

 

 

 

Fire Sale

Jim Thome

Paul Konerko

Jermaine Dye

Joe Crede

Juan Uribe

Orlando Cabrera

Pablo Ozuna

 

 

 

Needs

First Base

Shortstop

Edited May 8, 2008 by rangercal

[Steve9347]

Exactly. Make it happen now. As comprised right now, this entire lineup needs to be revamped.

[Balta1701]

Fire Sale

Jim Thome

Paul Konerko

Jermaine Dye

Joe Crede

Juan Uribe

Orlando Cabrera

Pablo Ozuna

Why do people keep acting like it's a good idea to go and put guys who are struggling mightily out on the trade market? "Oh sure, here, you can take my last 2 first round draft picks for a guy hitting .220 and making $12 million this year. Oh, and Juan Uribe? Sweet! I need a shortstop, here, take my best pitching prospect".

 

If you want to do a "fire sale", you can't do jack squat until some of these guys pick it up. Pablo and Uribe are essentially worthless, trading Crede might net you something but it's going to be a disappointment because of his FA status, Thome and Konerko are hitting .220 (not to mention the 10-5 rights Konerko just picked up), and Cabrera is probably still going to net the Sox 2 draft picks this fall if he walks as a FA, which means you need to get something worth more than a pair of late first round picks for him if you deal him.

[rangercal]

Exactly. Make it happen now. As comprised right now, this entire lineup needs to be revamped.

If KW can pull out more quentins and floyds out of our aging players through a trade, I would jump for joy.

[lord chas]

the situation we are in makes this years draft crucial. KW can't miss on our top picks or we are going to be so screwed in the years to come

[rangercal]

Why do people keep acting like it's a good idea to go and put guys who are struggling mightily out on the trade market? "Oh sure, here, you can take my last 2 first round draft picks for a guy hitting .220 and making $12 million this year. Oh, and Juan Uribe? Sweet! I need a shortstop, here, take my best pitching prospect".

 

If you want to do a "fire sale", you can't do jack squat until some of these guys pick it up. Pablo and Uribe are essentially worthless, trading Crede might net you something but it's going to be a disappointment because of his FA status, Thome and Konerko are hitting .220 (not to mention the 10-5 rights Konerko just picked up), and Cabrera is probably still going to net the Sox 2 draft picks this fall if he walks as a FA, which means you need to get something worth more than a pair of late first round picks for him if you deal him.

I don't expect the sox to get any "top prospects" for any of the listed players. But, it would be nice to pick up some low risk/high reward projects that teams may have given up on . Some examples of the last couple years would be Brandon Phillips, Gavin Floyd, Carlos Quentin, Josh Hamilton, Oliver Perez ect

[Steve9347]

I don't expect the sox to get any "top prospects" for any of the listed players. But, it would be nice to pick up some low risk/high reward projects that teams may have given up on . Some examples of the last couple years would be Brandon Phillips, Gavin Floyd, Carlos Quentin, Josh Hamilton, Oliver Perez ect

No, that's not possible. No one will gives us anything for our players despite many examples to the contrary.

 

See Miguel Tejada

[fathom]

I don't expect the sox to get any "top prospects" for any of the listed players. But, it would be nice to pick up some low risk/high reward projects that teams may have given up on . Some examples of the last couple years would be Brandon Phillips, Gavin Floyd, Carlos Quentin, Josh Hamilton, Oliver Perez ect

 

I always wanted to see the Sox get Brandon Philliips in a deal for Garland.

[rangercal]

No, that's not possible. No one will gives us anything for our players despite many examples to the contrary.

 

See Miguel Tejada

 

good example. I'm just saying, Kenny has a good history with the low risk/high reward guys. Just look at our roster

 

 

Bobby Jenks-Waivers

Matt Thornton used to be Joe Borchard

Gavin Floyd used to be Freddy Garcia with a 10 million dollar salary (plus we received Gio)

Jose Contreras Used to be Loaiza . As bad as contreras has been after the extension, this risk certainly paid off.

A.J. Pierzynski Free agent signing that no one really wanted a part of.

Carlos Quentin (as good as Chris Carter can be, he still was an "A" prospect at the time.)

Danny Richar ( again, a MLB ready positional player with good potential for an "A" prospect.)

Edited May 8, 2008 by rangercal

[rangercal]

I always wanted to see the Sox get Brandon Philliips in a deal for Garland.

 

 

I'm sure we could have got him for even less than that. But yes, that would have been a gem of a deal.

[fathom]

I'm sure we could have got him for even less than that. But yes, that would have been a gem of a deal.

 

No, this past offseason.

[Getupstretch39]

tough to argue any points in the article.

 

one thing that has really bothered me lately is a quote I heard about KW asking Ozzie "what do you need to win this thing" and Ozzie saying "I think we can win with what we have". I understand standing behind your players but come one....you're telling me Ozzie truly believes NO MOVES need to be made to try to improve this team??

 

I'm not saying the guys we would trade would result in much of an upgrade to the everyday lineup, but if what KW says is true (which it might not be, could be just GM-speak) then that is just a little disheartening to me.

[rangercal]

No, this past offseason.

Not sure why Kenny would go for OC instead of Phillips. But, If that deal was possible I am pretty disapointed it didn't go down.

[Bubba Philips]

If the sox Must have a fire sale, they might as well do it right.

 

as far as hitters go:

 

Keepers

Carlos Quinten

Nick Swisher

Brian Anderson

Josh Fields

AJ Pierzynski

Danny Richar

 

 

 

Fire Sale

Jim Thome

Paul Konerko

Jermaine Dye

Joe Crede

Juan Uribe

Orlando Cabrera

Pablo Ozuna

 

 

 

Needs

First Base

Shortstop

You forgot Hall and possibly think of an an ajp replacement... We missed an oppurtunity to get Olivo in the offseason he was a very good defensive catcher and is now showing that he can hit... I was totally baffled by the signing of Uribe, Dye and I actually see why the sox picking up OC could have been good. One thing that has been happening it has been feast or famine.. The Sox can't run how long did the lineup contain Thome. Konerko, Dye, Crede and Pierzynski.. These guys who each have contributed greatly to the Sox together create a clog in the lineup.. Konerko needs a double to be brought in from third base.. My thoughts is that we need to inject a lot more speed in the lineup.. We could trade with teams who have speedy power hitters who are lacking slow encumbered power hitters.. How many years do we have to endure men in scoring position no one out and we can't get a run... 1hit 2 hitsor few hits and our players need to start making contact maybe hitting the ball the other way and even sacrificing themselves for the good of the team.. Pitching is good enough and the hitting sucks.. DO something and do it quick while these guys have a little value.........

[WCSox]

Why do people keep acting like it's a good idea to go and put guys who are struggling mightily out on the trade market? "Oh sure, here, you can take my last 2 first round draft picks for a guy hitting .220 and making $12 million this year. Oh, and Juan Uribe? Sweet! I need a shortstop, here, take my best pitching prospect".

 

If you want to do a "fire sale", you can't do jack squat until some of these guys pick it up. Pablo and Uribe are essentially worthless, trading Crede might net you something but it's going to be a disappointment because of his FA status, Thome and Konerko are hitting .220 (not to mention the 10-5 rights Konerko just picked up), and Cabrera is probably still going to net the Sox 2 draft picks this fall if he walks as a FA, which means you need to get something worth more than a pair of late first round picks for him if you deal him.

 

If the Sox are still playing like this in July, I'd be more than happy to get rid of Dye and Thome just for the sake of dumping their salaries. Agreed that Paulie would be more difficult to move, but he's still in his early 30's and is able to stay healthy.

 

[Metz]

If KW can pull out more quentins and floyds out of our aging players through a trade, I would jump for joy.

 

CQ didnt get here through our aging players he got here through Chris Carter who has tremendous power, but I am just pointing that out. People will want to put Thome and everyone out there while they are struggling but once/if they get back to themselves will want to keep them. Konerko with his rights would be hard to trade, Thome wouldnt go to the NL, and then we put guys out there who can walk. You can go trade Thome to Seattle, but what are you gonna get back, Wladimir Balentien would have been great to get before this season since he has not started playing for the M's and showing for the most part he can stay up in the MLB.

[Chisoxfn]

I really enjoyed the article, but I really think the Sox should move Thome/Konerko and make an adjustment with Fields replacing one of them and the Sox acquiring a legitimate leadoff hitter, shortstop prospect, top notch outfield prospect, and a legit pitching prospect. Basically put, I'm looking for 2 A prospects and 2 B prospects in total from moving Thome/Konerko.

 

The Sox can than make additional tweaks and adjustments to the lineup once they have freed up all that cash and increased the team speed.

[gosox41]

If the sox Must have a fire sale, they might as well do it right.

 

as far as hitters go:

 

Keepers

Carlos Quinten

Nick Swisher

Brian Anderson

Josh Fields

AJ Pierzynski

Danny Richar

 

 

 

Fire Sale

Jim Thome

Paul Konerko

Jermaine Dye

Joe Crede

Juan Uribe

Orlando Cabrera

Pablo Ozuna

 

 

 

Needs

First Base

Shortstop

 

The only problem is PK, Dye, & Thome all have some version of no trade clauses.

 

Yep, KW managed to lock uo our 3-5 hitters w/ no trade clauses (PK is 10 & 5 guy) when these represent everything that isn't small ball.

 

So besides not having many options where we can demote these guys in the line up, we'r paying them a combined $32 mill out of pocket per season a to age and become less productive. Lovely.

 

 

Bob

 

[rangercal]

CQ didnt get here through our aging players he got here through Chris Carter who has tremendous power, but I am just pointing that out. People will want to put Thome and everyone out there while they are struggling but once/if they get back to themselves will want to keep them. Konerko with his rights would be hard to trade, Thome wouldnt go to the NL, and then we put guys out there who can walk. You can go trade Thome to Seattle, but what are you gonna get back, Wladimir Balentien would have been great to get before this season since he has not started playing for the M's and showing for the most part he can stay up in the MLB.

 

I wasn't really making a point of WHAT we traded to get Quinten. Arizona gave up on Carlos and I am sure for the right vet/vet package 'Zona would have took it though.

 

It would not be the first time Kenny traded a vet for a low risk/high reward guy. Getting these types of guys are not impossible to obtain for the mere fact that the organization they are coming for has given up on them. Kind of like how we almost completely gave up on BA.

[Steve9347]

I wasn't really making a point of WHAT we traded to get Quinten. Arizona gave up on Carlos and I am sure for the right vet/vet package 'Zona would have took it though.

 

It would not be the first time Kenny traded a vet for a low risk/high reward guy. Getting these types of guys are not impossible to obtain for the mere fact that the organization they are coming for has given up on them. Kind of like how we almost completely gave up on BA.

Hopefully he has a few more of thse up his sleeve.