Feast or Famine White Sox Offense will Take Years to Fix

[Soxpranos]

I don't expect the sox to get any "top prospects" for any of the listed players. But, it would be nice to pick up some low risk/high reward projects that teams may have given up on . Some examples of the last couple years would be Brandon Phillips, Gavin Floyd, Carlos Quentin, Josh Hamilton, Oliver Perez ect

Floyd and Quentin where top prospects from their respected former teams. We'll be lucky to get a back up for any of the so called "fire sale" players we have. They need to get their numbers dramatically up so we can get any chance of a sleeper prospect.

[chitownsportsfan]

Back to the OP, this argument is dumb. The Sox have a team wide OBP of .319, (tied for 10th and below league average by 10 points) they aren't "doing a good job of getting on base". You can't talk about average and OBP in the same breath and not realize that most guys with a high OBP also hit for a decent average. Not 300 hitters necessarily, but not .240 guys either.

 

I'm not happy about the slumping offense either, but blaming it on Moneyball and an emphasis this offseason on OBP is just dumb. I guarantee that if the Sox OBP was .369 like Boston's we'd be leading the league in RS like Boston. Nothing (of the simple rate stats) correlates better to RS than OBP, not average, that's for f***ing sure.

[rangercal]

Floyd and Quentin where top prospects from their respected former teams. We'll be lucky to get a back up for any of the so called "fire sale" players we have. They need to get their numbers dramatically up so we can get any chance of a sleeper prospect.

 

Floyd and Quentin were top prospects how Brian Anderson was a top prospect for us last year. Someone Major league tested that has not exactly panned out. So yes, there are more guys out there like that. If Kenny developed your line of thinking he should get fired on the spot.

[Sox It To Em]

Back to the OP, this argument is dumb. The Sox have a team wide OBP of .319, (tied for 10th and below league average by 10 points) they aren't "doing a good job of getting on base". You can't talk about average and OBP in the same breath and not realize that most guys with a high OBP also hit for a decent average. Not 300 hitters necessarily, but not .240 guys either.

 

I'm not happy about the slumping offense either, but blaming it on Moneyball and an emphasis this offseason on OBP is just dumb. I guarantee that if the Sox OBP was .369 like Boston's we'd be leading the league in RS like Boston. Nothing (of the simple rate stats) correlates better to RS than OBP, not average, that's for f***ing sure.

 

^^^

QFT.

 

The Sox aren't doing an "alright" job of getting on base by any stretch of the imagination, especially within the last two weeks, so blaming our recent offensive struggles on KW's emphasis on OBP just doesn't fly. It's not a coincidence this team stopped hitting when they stopped walking and being patient.

[The Ginger Kid]

well done. i don't agree with you at all, but you make a good argument. too soon to be talking fire sale. Spring training lasted longer than the season so far.

[greg775]

That was a good article and scary.

The article pretty much indicates this team cannot score near enough runs to win.

I would suspect the team will start getting KILLED on the road like last road trip and play probably just under .500 ball at home.

[Hawkfan]

The feast will begin and not quit baby!!!

[Steve9347]

I'm not happy about the slumping offense either, but blaming it on Moneyball and an emphasis this offseason on OBP is just dumb. I guarantee that if the Sox OBP was .369 like Boston's we'd be leading the league in RS like Boston. Nothing (of the simple rate stats) correlates better to RS than OBP, not average, that's for f***ing sure.

I think you mis interpreted the article. I was pointing out that the organization's sudden emphasis on OBP had them neglecting players who hit for high average. It was all about walks, and they brought in three guys who likely won't be .300 hitters.

[chitownsportsfan]

I think you mis interpreted the article. I was pointing out that the organization's sudden emphasis on OBP had them neglecting players who hit for high average. It was all about walks, and they brought in three guys who likely won't be .300 hitters.

 

The point of your article is that the Sox don't can't score because they don't have enough guys that hit for average (and can run), because in the off season the Sox over-emphasized OBP and power at the expense of average and speed. The point should just be that the Sox don't have enough good hitters, whether they be slap hitting speedsters or lumbering sluggers.

 

 

The vast majority of runs are scored by not making outs and hitting for power. All other things being equal I'd love to have a lineup of .300 hitters. But I'd much rather have nine 250/350/500 hitters than nine 300/340/420 hitters. The higher OPS team will always score more runs than the slap hitting team, I don't care how many hits they "string" together or how many bases they steal.

 

 

It's not about speed, or average, or even OBP, in isolation. It's about having too many players who aren't good hitters period. Cabrera, AJ, Crede, and Uribe are not good hitters. Swisher, Dye, Thome, Kong and Quentin are all average or above average hitters, but none of them is a particularly great hitter.

 

Overall, you'll see that the Sos have a teamwide OPS of .714, well below the league average. Go through the sortable stats from last year and this year. Just by glancing you can see that OPS correlates to RS better than average. I'm not arguing that speed and average aren't good and virtuous in and of themselves. I'm just saying that they aren't as important as power and patience (again, in isolation).

 

 

 

[StrangeSox]

AJ's a career .285/.328/.431 hitter. I wouldn't say that makes him not a good hitter, and certainly he's on an entirely different level than Uribe.

[witesoxfan]

Yep, KW managed to lock uo our 3-5 hitters w/ no trade clauses (PK is 10 & 5 guy) when these represent everything that isn't small ball.

 

Good, cuz small ball f***ing sucks

[beck72]

The sox went about getting OBP and contact guys the right way [through the Quentin, Swisher and Cabrera trades] that compliment the core they already had in place--PK, Thome, AJ, Dye, Crede. The sox are taking more walks and scoring more runs, even with the lowest batting avg in the league. In recent years, the sox weren't getting OBP. The batting avg's will increase.

 

Sure the sox need more .300 hitters--what team doesn't. But not many were out there in the offseason [though the sox got one in O-Cab, and he's not a consistent .300 hitter]. With the addition of Swisher, one of PK or Dye will take over DH for Thome in 2 years. The sox can develop and/ or trade for a few missing pieces around who they have now.

 

The sox don't need and won't do a firesale to get "better". The payroll and the fans won't allow it. Why go through 3, 4 losing seasons on the chance they might be better in years. The lineup now is all hitting horribly. If they get around to being mediocre--which they should at minimum [and more like a middle of the league hitting club by mid -season], they'll be fine with the pitching the way it is. The question is will the pitching hold. I think yes, esp. the way the SP is going. The bullpen just has to be decent not overwhelming.

[knightni]

Last night was a microcosm of the Sox's issue.

 

AJ hits a line drive down the line; that, for him in 2001, may have been a double.

Unfortunately, it's 2008 and he's easily thrown out at second base.

 

The big issue is that the team, on the whole, has no ability to take the extra base when they do get hits.

[chitownsportsfan]

A couple walks, some extra base hits and everyone's happy -- right?

[lostfan]

A couple walks, some extra base hits and everyone's happy -- right?

"Feast or a famine." They are feasting after the famine last week. Some consistency would be nice. It feels inevitable it's going to happen again, although I still have confidence in Swisher and Cabrera to pick it up. Not so sure about Konerko and Thome, although Konerko's been doing better.

[Steve9347]

"Feast or a famine." They are feasting after the famine last week. Some consistency would be nice. It feels inevitable it's going to happen again, although I still have confidence in Swisher and Cabrera to pick it up. Not so sure about Konerko and Thome, although Konerko's been doing better.

Exactly. The Sox are feasting right now, like the Snickers commercial. Surely they will famine yet again.

 

It's nice to see runs scored, but you'll notice most of yesterday's runs were via the homer.

 

The White Sox are 0-7 this season when they don't hit a homerun.

[ballyb11]

The White Sox are 0-7 this season when they don't hit a homerun.

 

 

Great stat.

[Steve9347]

Great stat.

After today's game they are now 0-8 in games in which they do not hit a homerun.

[harfman77]

The bottom line to the whole thing is the Sox do not have a good way to manufacture runs when the HR's aren't flying. The Sox lack anyone who is a legit threat to steal a base consistently, anyone that can put down a bunt consistently, and guys that will hit behind the runner. Every at bat is just an opportunity to slug one out of the park. The ability to manufacture runs is what helped us to win so many one run games in '05 and the lack of ability to do so was evident last year. The Sox need to find a legitimate lead off man/slap hitter that can steal bases to plug into this lineup to help with that. That gives the offense another way to beat you when your offense isnt clicking as well.