Sad, sad news

[knightni]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080511/ap_on_...JNo8AE0HIpn.3QA

 

[jackie hayes]

It's not clear how much good would be done by those supplies, anyway. The junta is relabeling relief boxes (to say they came from General X or Y) and distributing them for political, not humanitarian, effect. The damage caused by the loss of this one ship is infinitesimal compared to the damage being done by the government.

[knightni]

More good than no supplies at all. Cynic.

 

28,000 reported dead now.

 

 

[Texsox]

It's not clear how much good would be done by those supplies, anyway. The junta is relabeling relief boxes (to say they came from General X or Y) and distributing them for political, not humanitarian, effect. The damage caused by the loss of this one ship is infinitesimal compared to the damage being done by the government.

 

I think the nurishment in the rice would be the same, no matter whose name was on the outside of the box.

[CanOfCorn]

I think the nurishment in the rice would be the same, no matter whose name was on the outside of the box.

 

So who bought the Big Salad?

[southsideirish71]

I think the nurishment in the rice would be the same, no matter whose name was on the outside of the box.

 

I am sure that the nourishment would get there quicker if they didnt have to spend time relabeling everything.

[jackie hayes]

I think the nurishment in the rice would be the same, no matter whose name was on the outside of the box.

That's cute -- but it would be nice if it actually got to the areas that need it the most, instead of being diverted to politically sensitive areas, and quickly, instead of being delivered using the tiny, ancient fleet of planes and helicopters the junta has available.

 

They're going to kill tens or hundreds of thousands of people, and they're worrying about the labels on the boxes so they'll look great on state-run tv. I'd say what they're doing matters.

[Texsox]

That's cute -- but it would be nice if it actually got to the areas that need it the most, instead of being diverted to politically sensitive areas, and quickly, instead of being delivered using the tiny, ancient fleet of planes and helicopters the junta has available.

 

They're going to kill tens or hundreds of thousands of people, and they're worrying about the labels on the boxes so they'll look great on state-run tv. I'd say what they're doing matters.

 

I'm not going to start placing comparative values on the lives saved. I frankly had never heard of the country before. People are people. Losing the supplies was a terrible event, no matter which starving person was going to benefit or who was going to get credit from the citizens. The earlier comment was the loss of this shipment was infinitesimal compared to the government's actions. The loss of what amounted to about 20% of the aid that was currently in the country is huge.

 

I believe the argument on who gets credit for the food is dangerous on both sides. If the government wants their labels on this stuff, label it here in the US with their label and start shipping.

[southsider2k5]

I'm not going to start placing comparative values on the lives saved. I frankly had never heard of the country before. People are people. Losing the supplies was a terrible event, no matter which starving person was going to benefit or who was going to get credit from the citizens. The earlier comment was the loss of this shipment was infinitesimal compared to the government's actions. The loss of what amounted to about 20% of the aid that was currently in the country is huge.

 

I believe the argument on who gets credit for the food is dangerous on both sides. If the government wants their labels on this stuff, label it here in the US with their label and start shipping.

 

That's probably because you have always known it as Burma...

[Texsox]

That's probably because you have always known it as Burma...

 

Thanks for tossing me the life preserver, but truthfully geography, and memorizing names, was never my strong part. Burma, they export shave cream, right?

 

 

 

 

[bmags]

Well texsox, myanmar has been in the news a lot after the monks started protesting their military regime last september or so and the gov't cracked down hard. With that bit said, I was surprised about how un-cynical you were about the whole thing. From today's times:

 

He twitched with rage as he described the rice the military gave him.

 

“They gave us four bags,” he said. “The rice is rotten — even the pigs and dogs wouldn’t eat it.”

 

He said the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees had delivered good rice to the local military leaders last week but they kept it for themselves and distributed the waterlogged, musty rice. “I’m very angry,” he said, adding an expletive to describe the military.

 

[jackie hayes]

I'm not going to start placing comparative values on the lives saved. I frankly had never heard of the country before. People are people. Losing the supplies was a terrible event, no matter which starving person was going to benefit or who was going to get credit from the citizens. The earlier comment was the loss of this shipment was infinitesimal compared to the government's actions. The loss of what amounted to about 20% of the aid that was currently in the country is huge.

 

I believe the argument on who gets credit for the food is dangerous on both sides. If the government wants their labels on this stuff, label it here in the US with their label and start shipping.

What matters is whether they are starving or merely struggling.

 

That said, it seems that this was going to the delta, so that, yes, it is a loss. But it absolutely pales in comparison to the waste in terms of lives caused by the government's refusal to accept assistance. What's truly sad in all this is a government willing to kill tens of thousands of people, at least, to maintain its public image.

 

I can't find anything suggesting that this boat contained 20% of the aid in the country. The boat carried about 2.5 tons of rice -- besides other rice stocks, we know they have close to 40 tons of these UN "biscuits" that they confiscated, so I find that figure hard to believe.

[jackie hayes]

More on the military's corruption:

Even Myanmar citizens who want to donate rice or other items have in several cases been told that all assistance must be channeled through the military. That restriction has angered local government officials like Tin Win who are trying to help rebuild the lives of villagers. He twitched with rage as he described the rice the military gave him.

 

“They gave us four bags,” he said. “The rice is rotten — even the pigs and dogs wouldn’t eat it.”

 

He said the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees had delivered good rice to the local military leaders last week but they kept it for themselves and distributed the waterlogged, musty rice. “I’m very angry,” he said, adding an expletive to describe the military.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/world/asia/12myanmar.html

[bmags]

More on the military's corruption:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/world/asia/12myanmar.html

 

high five, jackie.

[lostfan]

That's probably because you have always known it as Burma...

I thought I knew where every country in the world was but I probably can't even point to it on a map. I'm guessing from looking at how the people look that it's somewhere near Cambodia or Thailand?

[jackie hayes]

I thought I knew where every country in the world was but I probably can't even point to it on a map. I'm guessing from looking at how the people look that it's somewhere near Cambodia or Thailand?

East of India, borders China on the north and Thailand on the east.

[bmags]

Myanmar was in the news quite a bit, as I alluded to earlier. Their government is just absurd. I can't imagine being in a position of power over there with so many dead or dying, and not doing everything possible to help.

[southsider2k5]

I thought I knew where every country in the world was but I probably can't even point to it on a map. I'm guessing from looking at how the people look that it's somewhere near Cambodia or Thailand?

 

 

IIRC, it is directly to the east of Bangledash.

[knightni]

It's west of Thailand.

 

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/travel...0_myanmar_m.gif

[Texsox]

Well texsox, myanmar has been in the news a lot after the monks started protesting their military regime last september or so and the gov't cracked down hard. With that bit said, I was surprised about how un-cynical you were about the whole thing. From today's times:

 

I'm not certain if it was being un-cynical, or hyper-cynical. I'll bet there isn't a government in the world that wouldn't feed themselves, and their military first. Glory hogging is also almost universal. Blocking aid workers, again almost universal. After 9-11 we blocked some rescue teams from Canada and after Katrina we blocked Mexican workers who wanted to go to N.O. to help. Now we can spin that work into making our government look bad and blocking help, or we could spin it to make the government look good and protecting our borders. Every country feels they are competent humans, capable of getting the job done, no better then someone living in the US. A few may even be correct.

 

What their military is doing is clearly wrong, but we ain't going to change it without bombs. So keep flooding the area with supplies and pray.

[jackie hayes]

I'm not certain if it was being un-cynical, or hyper-cynical. I'll bet there isn't a government in the world that wouldn't feed themselves, and their military first. Glory hogging is also almost universal. Blocking aid workers, again almost universal. After 9-11 we blocked some rescue teams from Canada and after Katrina we blocked Mexican workers who wanted to go to N.O. to help. Now we can spin that work into making our government look bad and blocking help, or we could spin it to make the government look good and protecting our borders. Every country feels they are competent humans, capable of getting the job done, no better then someone living in the US. A few may even be correct.

 

What their military is doing is clearly wrong, but we ain't going to change it without bombs. So keep flooding the area with supplies and pray.

Just, no. First of all, the US actually has the technology to accomplish rescue missions, while Myanmar has only a handful of helicopters, many of which are too small and unsuitable to make a significant impact. Second, the US did accept foreign help after disasters. Just because we didn't take everyone who volunteered does not make us like a country that's approved visas for something like 2 workers (and refuses all foreigners access to the delta). Finally, it's not like they're feeding starving soldiers who are working competently to aid the refugees. They're receiving the aid and warehousing it while passing off small quantities of rotten food to a couple villages, and there are suggestions that they may be selling the good stuff on the black market. Anyone in the US military who acted similarly or approved similar actions would have the hell court martialed out of him. His life would be ruined.

 

It's vile behavior because whether or not they are "competent humans", they are not even trying to "get the job done". They just don't give a f*** how many people die, as long as people in other areas see them -- and only them -- looking good on tv.

 

I fail to see how prayer is going to change the situation. It's not bad luck killing people, it's human corruption. You keep giving the junta more stuff, they keep getting richer. What a plan...

[Texsox]

Just, no. First of all, the US actually has the technology to accomplish rescue missions, while Myanmar has only a handful of helicopters, many of which are too small and unsuitable to make a significant impact. Second, the US did accept foreign help after disasters. Just because we didn't take everyone who volunteered does not make us like a country that's approved visas for something like 2 workers (and refuses all foreigners access to the delta). Finally, it's not like they're feeding starving soldiers who are working competently to aid the refugees. They're receiving the aid and warehousing it while passing off small quantities of rotten food to a couple villages, and there are suggestions that they may be selling the good stuff on the black market. Anyone in the US military who acted similarly or approved similar actions would have the hell court martialed out of him. His life would be ruined.

 

It's vile behavior because whether or not they are "competent humans", they are not even trying to "get the job done". They just don't give a f*** how many people die, as long as people in other areas see them -- and only them -- looking good on tv.

 

I fail to see how prayer is going to change the situation. It's not bad luck killing people, it's human corruption. You keep giving the junta more stuff, they keep getting richer. What a plan...

 

I agree, the government's response could be better. Just like we could have done better in Katrina. And we do have more resources. We also have the resources to get in and then take over a country.

 

Our country has a long standing tradition of better access to everything for the wealthy and connected. Including government services in time of need.

 

I fail to see how stopping prayer will help. I fail to see how stopping the aid will help. In your words, what a plan . . .

 

Fighting the government may help, but with people dying, we just have to pile enough aid to help the privileged and the needy.

[jackie hayes]

I agree, the government's response could be better. Just like we could have done better in Katrina. And we do have more resources. We also have the resources to get in and then take over a country.

 

Our country has a long standing tradition of better access to everything for the wealthy and connected. Including government services in time of need.

 

I fail to see how stopping prayer will help. I fail to see how stopping the aid will help. In your words, what a plan . . .

 

Fighting the government may help, but with people dying, we just have to pile enough aid to help the privileged and the needy.

"Just like we could have done better in Katrina." No, no, no, no, no. It's a ridiculous comparison. It's like saying, Sure, Pol Pot could have done better, just like Pres Bush could have made better decisions once in a while.

 

You seem to think that if we just send enough, they'll see the light and start an aggressive campaign to save the dying instead of just selling it and lining their own pockets while being lazy s***s. That, somehow, rewarding them for what amounts to murder will make them conscientious. All I'll say is that that is a very, very strange idea, but you're welcome to it.

[Texsox]

"Just like we could have done better in Katrina." No, no, no, no, no. It's a ridiculous comparison. It's like saying, Sure, Pol Pot could have done better, just like Pres Bush could have made better decisions once in a while.

 

You seem to think that if we just send enough, they'll see the light and start an aggressive campaign to save the dying instead of just selling it and lining their own pockets while being lazy s***s. That, somehow, rewarding them for what amounts to murder will make them conscientious. All I'll say is that that is a very, very strange idea, but you're welcome to it.

 

Perhaps I am not explaining myself properly.

 

My theory, I've had enough to eat, pass it on.

Your theory. f*** 'em stop the aid so everyone starves.

 

And stopping aid helps how?

[jackie hayes]

Perhaps I am not explaining myself properly.

 

My theory, I've had enough to eat, pass it on.

Your theory. f*** 'em stop the aid so everyone starves.

 

And stopping aid helps how?

Mind pointing out where I said that?

 

I'm actually more in favor of the French suggestion that the UN should invoke its obligation to protect and go over the head of Myanmar's government. And to whatever extent possible, everyone should stir up a palpable s***-storm for China just before the Olympics to get them to actually do something. But thanks for your assumption.

 

The "pass it on" idea is cute, and as a kindergartener I may have found it compelling. It's not going to happen here. But keep on making ludicrous statements, like comparing this to Katrina. I'm out.