Two pitchers, two mysteries

[NorthSideSox72]

The pitching this year has been so good, and yet, last night we got a showcase of two rare exceptions - Buehrle and Wassermann. And what's really odd is, those two were among the most reliable pitchers in 2007 (a year when there was very little reliable about the pitching). Its like the staff has flipped.

 

So what's wrong with these two?

 

In Buehrle's case, he has indeed lost some velocity, but is that it? He walked some guys last night, but it seemed like his breaking stuff was just to loopy and soft. They were keying on those breakers, it seemed, and hitting them around. Anyone else have any theories?

 

In Wassermann's case, I haven't gotten to watch his two recent appearances. Can anyone say what's going on with him? They guy was nails in 2007 at AAA and Chicago, then again in ST this year, and again in AAA this season. Why the sudden bomb-out?

 

[Kyyle23]

The key to Buehrle is location and keeping the batters off balance. Loss of velocity shouldnt be too much of a hindrance to him, because he never had a lot of velocity to begin with. If his location is off, he just gets tattooed out there, which is what we are seeing. His complete game against the Blue Jays, he had great location and only made one mistake, which was the game. He always makes his big mistakes after errors, which is just awful and really puts the Sox behind the 8-ball.

 

Wasserman just doesnt seem to have the same mystique that he had last year. Maybe its the Shingo disease, one year he is unhittable, the next everyone knows whats coming.

[Controlled Chaos]

Did Mark get some shotty D again last night to lead to the big inning?

 

Edit: found the answer to my own question.

 

One bad pitch dooms Buehrle, Sox

05/13/2008 2:30 AM ET

By Scott Merkin / MLB.com

 

ANAHEIM -- The pitch count for Mark Buehrle read 102, of which 63 were strikes, when he exited Los Angeles' 10-7 victory over the White Sox with two outs in the sixth inning Monday night at Angel Stadium.

It was one particular pitch in the fifth inning, at least in Buehrle's mind, which really changed the fortunes of this series opener. And according to the White Sox southpaw, the fastball lofted out by Vladimir Guerrero with two runners on and one out, giving the Angels (23-17) the lead for good, 5-4, wasn't that bad of an offering to most mortal hitters.

 

"If I throw that pitch to anyone else, they pop it up, take it or miss it," said Buehrle of the 1-1 inside fastball Guerrero crushed for home run No. 4, which marked his first long ball since April 25. "It shows how good of a hitter he is."

 

"That's Vlad," added White Sox catcher A.J. Pierzynski. "You throw a pitch to him a foot outside, and he hits a home run to right. You throw it a foot inside, and he hits a home run to left."

 

Guerrero's at-bat might not have mattered if not for two infield hits to start the rally. Sean Rodriguez reached on a grounder that took a bad hop off shortstop Orlando Cabrera, and Gary Matthews Jr. was credited with a hit when second baseman Juan Uribe couldn't handle his grounder behind second.

That sort of bad luck has characterized the start of 2008 for Buehrle, who slipped to 1-5 and has not won since April 6 in Detroit. He has given up 19 hits and 13 earned runs over his last 11 1/3 innings, including six earned runs allowed Monday.

 

Yet, appearances can be deceiving. While Buehrle hasn't worked at his sharpest level, he also hasn't struggled like the first half of his 2003 season (2-10 start) or the second half of 2006 (3-7, 6.44 ERA).

 

"This one isn't similar to the one from a couple of years ago," Buehrle said of his infrequent career slumps, after striking out six and walking one against the Angels. "A couple of years ago, it seemed like I couldn't get anyone out. They hit the ball hard against me."

 

"To be honest, they hit some balls in perfect places," Pierzynski added. "He's had some good outings and a couple of bad ones, but he's throwing the ball better. Maybe he's angered the baseball gods, and we have to find a way to change his luck around."

 

Los Angeles actually trailed by 3-0 and 4-2 margins, before Guerrero's blast. The lead grew to 6-4 by the time the fifth inning was complete, and the Angels added on four more in the sixth against Buehrle, Ehren Wassermann and Boone Logan. But the White Sox (18-19) were not quite finished.

 

Trailing by a 10-4 margin in the eighth, the South Siders managed to bring closer Francisco Rodriguez (15th save) into the game to record the final two outs in preserving Nick Adenhart's first big league victory. Rodriguez struck out Pierzynski looking with runners on first and third, dropping the White Sox to 2-2 on this 10-game West Coast road trip.

 

Jermaine Dye led the 14-hit attack with a double and three singles, raising his average to .298. Pierzynski, Nick Swisher, Joe Crede and Uribe added two hits apiece, as the bottom five of the order accounted for all but one of the safeties and reached base 17 times.

 

Cabrera, Carlos Quentin, Jim Thome and Paul Konerko finished a combined 1-for-17 and reached base three times.

 

"We battled, had chances and left a lot of guys on base," said Pierzynski, whose team left eight on base, but finished 7-for-14 with runners in scoring position.

 

Monday's loss dropped the White Sox two games behind the Twins in the American League Central and one-half game in back of the Indians, who split a doubleheader with Toronto. Of course, the standings don't matter at this early stage.

 

What does truly count is getting Buehrle back on track and soon. On Monday, Buehrle felt as if one pitch to Guerrero meant the difference between victory and defeat. It could have been the difference between his present slump continuing or the potential start of a personal winning streak.

 

"Sometimes this game ... it's stupid," Buehrle said. "It's one pitch out of [102].

 

"I keep on saying it all evens out. I just hope it starts evening out soon."

 

 

Edited May 13, 2008 by Controlled Chaos

[RockRaines]

I dont understand where this loss of velocity thing came from, I havent noticed that at all this season. I've noticed that when he gives up little hits the next batters have gotten hanging changeups or rolling cutters which have been crushed. Thats what ive noticed.

 

Wass just has zero control.

[Dick Allen]

Wassermann is a minor leaguer. Buerhle needs to be pinpoint and for most of his career has been. This year he's off a little and becomes extremely hittable when he's not locating. The defense has not been good behind him, but if you are getting $56 million, pitching over it should be expected. He'll get his control back and be good again.

[southsider2k5]

The pitching this year has been so good, and yet, last night we got a showcase of two rare exceptions - Buehrle and Wassermann. And what's really odd is, those two were among the most reliable pitchers in 2007 (a year when there was very little reliable about the pitching). Its like the staff has flipped.

 

So what's wrong with these two?

 

In Buehrle's case, he has indeed lost some velocity, but is that it? He walked some guys last night, but it seemed like his breaking stuff was just to loopy and soft. They were keying on those breakers, it seemed, and hitting them around. Anyone else have any theories?

 

In Wassermann's case, I haven't gotten to watch his two recent appearances. Can anyone say what's going on with him? They guy was nails in 2007 at AAA and Chicago, then again in ST this year, and again in AAA this season. Why the sudden bomb-out?

 

I think in Wass's case, he was a gimic pitcher who got figured out. Anyone with a quirk seems to be the more times you see them, the easier that quirk becomes to figure out. Hell Dontrelle Willis is the perfect example of this.

[lostfan]

Did Mark get some shotty D again last night to lead to the big inning?

This defense Buehrle has been getting reminds me of the :lol: defense Danks was getting around this time last year.

 

Also he really had no business pitching to Vlad, with runners on 2nd and 3rd and Buehrle being off. Just walk Vlad. No idea what the hell that was all about.

[lostfan]

I think in Wass's case, he was a gimic pitcher who got figured out. Anyone with a quirk seems to be the more times you see them, the easier that quirk becomes to figure out. Hell Dontrelle Willis is the perfect example of this.

I think so too. I'm going to give it another couple of weeks before I give up on him though and start calling for Broadway (who I want to see up here). I really didn't expect him to amount to anything last year and I was kind of surprised he did anything at all. I expected him to be more like Day and Sukvich.

[southsider2k5]

I think so too. I'm going to give it another couple of weeks before I give up on him though and start calling for Broadway (who I want to see up here). I really didn't expect him to amount to anything last year and I was kind of surprised he did anything at all. I expected him to be more like Day and Sukvich.

 

I'm not ready to overreact and give up on the kid yet or anything like that. Heck he could have a mechanical glitch too that is easily fixable, it happens. Its just so far, he doesn't look like he is fooling anyone, where as last year no one could touch him.

[RockRaines]

This defense Buehrle has been getting reminds me of the :lol: defense Danks was getting around this time last year.

 

Also he really had no business pitching to Vlad, with runners on 2nd and 3rd and Buehrle being off. Just walk Vlad. No idea what the hell that was all about.

Ah, I had zero thoughts of him pitching around Vlad, he seemed to handled him ok in the past, but he hung a cutter a little more over the plate than he wanted and Vlad made an excellent swing on it. Even so, he still could have recovered and kept us in the game, but the Angels dinked him then capitalized on it. I think the first 6 runs or so were off little infield hits or dribblers through the hole, its frustrating.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think in Wass's case, he was a gimic pitcher who got figured out. Anyone with a quirk seems to be the more times you see them, the easier that quirk becomes to figure out. Hell Dontrelle Willis is the perfect example of this.

Wass definitely has a gimick. But looking at his numbers last year, and his numbers his entire career moving up, he doesn't profile like a gimmick pitcher. His GO/AO number in 2007 was sick - one of the best in baseball. That tells me his stuff has very good movement. And he had solid control. Plus he made some Coop changes in the offseason, and suddenly in ST, he was getting lefties out. So I guess I'm also in the camp of, let's give him another few outings. If he continues to get hit around like this, then either he has indeed been "figured out", or he's lost some stuff.

 

[EvilMonkey]

Buehrle's reactions to the 'miscues' behind him (both those last night should have been errors) reminds me of Mike Sirotka. If there was an error behind him, you can just put a 5 spot on the board, because he just lost it.

[Bubba Philips]

Even so, he still could have recovered and kept us in the game, but the Angels dinked I think the first 6 runs or so were off little infield hits or dribblers through the hole, its frustrating.

Those little hits have plagued Buehrle watching on tv it is amazing how whatever team plays the sox gets them. Sox players nearly never get those little bloopers.. Is this just luck or could we do this.. In 05 we were getting a lot of breaks like that. Can this be taught to our players or do you think it is just our luck on the part of our opponents?

[daa84]

mark and AJ are delusional to think that pitch was a foot off the plate inside....besides if the guy hits a HR on balls a foot off the plate outside and inside...why the fork are we pitching to him with a base open???

[Controlled Chaos]

Buehrle's reactions to the 'miscues' behind him (both those last night should have been errors) reminds me of Mike Sirotka. If there was an error behind him, you can just put a 5 spot on the board, because he just lost it.

Well if it happens once in a while....you pitch over it...no big deal...and that gives you confidence the next time it happens. Mark has pitched over some mistakes this year, but when it happens almost every god dam start...then you would be inhuman for it not to creep in your mind. Then all of a sudden you're trying to be a bit too perfect, because you're preparing for the impending doom. Mark relies on pinpoint accuracy to be successful, all it takes is a slight change to f*** it all up.

 

 

[southsideirish71]

When Buerhle get pounded he has a similar pattern.

 

His pitches are up. And he tries to pitch away from contact.

 

When Buerhle is on.

 

His pitches have bite, and he absolutely bores his cutter in on the hands of right handers. When you see Buerhle going in, in, in and then away. He is going to have a great night. When you see him go away, away, away he is going to get rocked.

 

 

 

[fathom]

Buehrle's lost his change-up, it's pretty obvious. His velocity is actually up from the past few seasons, but there's only a 6 mph difference between his heater and fastball. Also, he's been just killed by some terrible defense, especially at the SS position.

[iamshack]

Buehrle's lost his change-up, it's pretty obvious. His velocity is actually up from the past few seasons, but there's only a 6 mph difference between his heater and fastball. Also, he's been just killed by some terrible defense, especially at the SS position.

 

His change-up? That was one of the few pitches that he had working for him last night, and the one he got most of his strikeouts on.

 

And as for the errors, he needs to pitch over them. I understand if he gives up an unearned run here or there, but he doesn't then have to give up 5 straight hits and let them blow the game open.

[fathom]

His change-up? That was one of the few pitches that he had working for him last night, and the one he got most of his strikeouts on.

 

And as for the errors, he needs to pitch over them. I understand if he gives up an unearned run here or there, but he doesn't then have to give up 5 straight hits and let them blow the game open.

 

He had no control of his change-up...it seemed like he was leaving it up and off the plate too much. I do know for certain that's the pitch that has been hit the hardest off of him this season.

[Soxfest]

Sox offense gave MB plenty last night.........loss is 100% on MB!

[Kyyle23]

Sox offense gave MB plenty last night.........loss is 100% on MB!

 

So the back to back errors that put 2 runners on before Vlad were Marks fault?

[iamshack]

He had no control of his change-up...it seemed like he was leaving it up and off the plate too much. I do know for certain that's the pitch that has been hit the hardest off of him this season.

 

Ahh, well, in regards to last night, I'll have to respectfully disagree. Seemed to me the breaking ball and cutter were the main culprits last night. I just know I am sick of watching him pitch right now.

[iamshack]

So the back to back errors that put 2 runners on before Vlad were Marks fault?

 

No, they weren't. But they weren't simple plays, either. OC should have had that ball, but guys misplay that ball fairly often (relative to other balls that are misplayed), and the play Juan made was a damn nice play to get a glove on it. That was a shot right up the middle that would have been a hit 95 times out of 100.

 

I'm not saying the defense didn't let Mark down a bit, but it's not like those were routine plays either.

[WCSox]

Guerrero's at-bat might not have mattered if not for two infield hits to start the rally. Sean Rodriguez reached on a grounder that took a bad hop off shortstop Orlando Cabrera, and Gary Matthews Jr. was credited with a hit when second baseman Juan Uribe couldn't handle his grounder behind second.

 

Uribe didn't serve up the meatball to Vlad with two runners on. As bad as Juan was defensively last night, I wouldn't chalk Mark's performance up to "bad luck." He's been getting hit pretty hard all year, and last night was no exception.

 

Mark's velocity is a problem again, just like it was in '06. If he can hit 88-90 consistently, he's in good shape. If he's throwing 85-87, there isn't enough of a difference between his fastball and his change to keep hitters off balance. And if his command is off with a mid-80's fastball, he's going to get hit hard.

 

[LittleHurt05]

So the back to back errors that put 2 runners on before Vlad were Marks fault?

 

The definitely werent all his fault but a good pitcher doesnt collpase and start getting rocked as soon as his defense makes a bad play or two. Same thing with the 2-0 loss in Toronto, Crede made a 2-out error and Mark just gave up a bunch of hits in a row and that lost the game.