Two Reasons it is IMPOSSIBLE

[The Ginger Kid]

maybe I should just give up on the sox now, devote more of my time to USA women's softball.

[Kalapse]

that has always been my problem when we went out and got him after the WS in 05. We really didn't need another slugger, heck we just got rid of Carlos and Maggs a bit before, went out and got some speed and look what happened-WS Champs, then we turn around and get another slugger...seems like we don't learn.

Would you consider Carl Everett "speed" because that's who Thome replaced. Anyone who thinks Carl Everett is a better baseball player than Jim Thome is out of their gourd. This "speed" that the '05 Sox added was Scott Podsednik and Tadahito Iguchi and correct me if I'm wrong but up until this season both of those guys were still in the starting lineup. The addition of Thome subtracted no speed from the lineup, unless you consider Rowand to be a speedster and Erstad/Anderson/Mackwiak to be plodders.

[elrockinMT]

maybe I should just give up on the sox now, devote more of my time to USA women's softball.

 

 

Send team phoots and other expose' kind of stuff. I am lonely B)

Edited May 14, 2008 by elrockinMT

[elrockinMT]

I think he was referring to the thread title.

 

 

Same thing applies, but I understand

[elrockinMT]

Correct

 

 

OK!

[scenario]

that has always been my problem when we went out and got him after the WS in 05. We really didn't need another slugger, heck we just got rid of Carlos and Maggs a bit before, went out and got some speed and look what happened-WS Champs, then we turn around and get another slugger...seems like we don't learn.

 

Some people seem to have forgotten than upgrading the DH position was one of the keys to re-signing Paulie.

 

And they needed to have a big homerun bat in the lineup in case Konerko walked.

 

So Thome was exactly what we needed at the time.

[Chisoxfn]

Would you consider Carl Everett "speed" because that's who Thome replaced. Anyone who thinks Carl Everett is a better baseball player than Jim Thome is out of their gourd. This "speed" that the '05 Sox added was Scott Podsednik and Tadahito Iguchi and correct me if I'm wrong but up until this season both of those guys were still in the starting lineup. The addition of Thome subtracted no speed from the lineup, unless you consider Rowand to be a speedster and Erstad/Anderson/Mackwiak to be plodders.

I should add, I use the word "athletes" as opposed to "speed" because the last thing I want is a guy like Jerry Owens who is on a roster solely because he's fast. I just want guys that are all around baseball players, because in the end I think if you get enough of those guys you can always end up acquiring that one guy to stick in the middle of the lineup to complete things.

 

It is where my opinion differs from a lot of peoples. Heck, I honestly think if I was a lineup, I would design it with multiple leadoff hitters. Ie, I'd have the top of the order, but than I'd have another leadoff type guy down in the 6 spot in the lineup and throw some production guys behind him and again back to speed at the 9 spot so you can turn 9-1-2 around with a lot of speed if needed. I say this because the leadoff guy only starts the game, but its nice to know you have a few guys throughout your lineup that during the regular course of the game if they happen to leadoff an inning they would be more than capable of being a so called "leadoff" guy.

[Kalapse]

I should add, I use the word "athletes" as opposed to "speed" because the last thing I want is a guy like Jerry Owens who is on a roster solely because he's fast. I just want guys that are all around baseball players, because in the end I think if you get enough of those guys you can always end up acquiring that one guy to stick in the middle of the lineup to complete things.

 

It is where my opinion differs from a lot of peoples. Heck, I honestly think if I had a lineup, I would design it with multiple leadoff hitters. Ie, I'd have the top of the order, but than I'd have another leadoff type guy down in the 6 spot in the lineup and throw some production guys behind him and again back to speed at the 9 spot so you can turn 9-1-2 around with a lot of speed if needed. I say this because the leadoff guy only starts the game, but its nice to know you have a few guys throughout your lineup that during the regular course of the game if they happen to leadoff an inning they would be more than capable of being a so called "leadoff" guy.

So I need a few examples real quick. 1. Can I have an example of a player who falls into your "athlete" category and 2. what's your definition of "leadoff" guy?

[lostfan]

that has always been my problem when we went out and got him after the WS in 05. We really didn't need another slugger, heck we just got rid of Carlos and Maggs a bit before, went out and got some speed and look what happened-WS Champs, then we turn around and get another slugger...seems like we don't learn.

Once Frank got hurt again the 2005 offense was really sucky.

[lostfan]

So I need a few examples real quick. 1. Can I have an example of a player who falls into your "athlete" category and 2. what's your definition of "leadoff" guy?

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but as far as players currently on this team/40-man roster that fit the "all-around athlete" mold:

Carlos Quentin

Josh Fields

Brian Anderson

Danny Richar (possibly)

 

However only one of those guys is in the everyday lineup. So it seems like we have nobody.

[Chisoxfn]

So I need a few examples real quick. 1. Can I have an example of a player who falls into your "athlete" category and 2. what's your definition of "leadoff" guy?

 

Carlos Quentin

Brian Anderson (however, Anderson has not proven himself to be a good baseball player yet and not all athletes will)

Juan Uribe (he is again a very good athlete, imo, just a poor hitter)

Jermaine Dye (not what he once was, but I still consider him a solid athlete)

Grady Sizemore (extreme example)

Curtis Granderson (more extreme examples)

Matt Kemp

James Loney

Erik Aybar (I consider him a good athlete, however he does lack power (but he's not purely a "speed" guy because he's showing to be a pretty damn good defensive player as well)

Orlando Cabrera (older, but solid athlete)

Nick Swisher (would prefer a better approach but he's a good all around athlete)

Rafael Furcal

Jimmy Rollins

Nick Markakis

Gary Matthews Jr.

Torri Hunter

 

I'm not necessarily saying a guy needs to be a 5 tool player but I am saying they should have 1st to 3rd speed and the ability to do a couple of things right. Basically put, the one thing I'm relatively opposed to is a pure slugger. Now if they can slugg, draw walks, AND hit for an average (ie, Manny Ramirez/David Ortiz) than you can come on down and join my squad any day of the weak. If you only slugg and draw walks while hitting for a poor average (Frank Thomas/Adam Dunn/Jim Thome/Paul Konerko (right now he fits this mold, although he isn't close to being the type of slugger the other guys in the list are) than I really don't have much of a place for you on my team.

 

I should note that it isn't necessarily easy finding good athletes that are also good baseball players and I left tons of people off my list as there are athletes that are perennial all stars, some that are bench players, and others that are less proven but bottom line if I were building a franchise I'd be building around good athletes (ie, good all around players with multiple quality skill-sets). I should point out that if you have a lot of good all around players, but lack a true power guy, than one person like Thome could fit in fine. Just like if you have a lot of solid athletes but maybe lack defense at a position, you can afford to go with a guy with a more limited tool set, as long as it fills a need (ie, a stud defensive SS who is a poor hitter or a top notch defensive catcher).

 

There are also exceptions in the sense that you will typically have a slugger/slower guy at one of 1st/3B (sometimes at both) plus the catcher spot. Which means as far as I'm concerned, you should have guys with multiple skill-sets around that. And I'm getting very general here, but its just my personal philosophy towards how I would build a franchise (position wise).

 

 

[LVSoxFan]

Since the 2006 All-Star break this team hasn't done much offensively. So they had one good half of a season. Do you remember the years prior to the World Series when this was an all or nothing offense? We'd hit 4 HRs in a game, capped off by a Jose Valentin 3 run HR and score 15 runs and then the offense would be impotent for a week or longer. What were the results of the 2006 season by the way? Did we not finish 3rd in the division? Its not so much that going opposite field would solve all of our problems and nor would a speed injection on this team. Look at the Twins, they have what we all seem to desperately seek. Yet where are they? Sure they have more division titles and playoff appearances than us since 2000, but no rings to show for it. However it would be a refreshing and welcome change to see fundamental baseball played on the Southside. We can't rest on the laurels of 2005 or even our 2006 offense. Six of the nine guys who start consistently were here in 2006, and many of them had great years then and are terrible now. We had a great and awe inspiring offense in 2006 for the most part. But thats over and those guys seem to be shells of there former selves. I hope they prove me wrong.

 

I TOTALLY remember. 2004 was a prime example. We'd win 14-2 one night and lost 2-0 the next. I call it the 2004 offense. You had lots of homers but no speed and no consistency. Call it smallball, call it smartball/Ozzie ball.

 

That's why I was totally jazzed going into 2005 with all the moves we made; even if it didn't work out to a World Series, I admired the retooling effort and liked the thinking. And look what happened: we beat the Twins at their own game. And everybody else.

 

Which is why I sit here shaking my head as to how we're right back in 2004 again. Even worse, we have a really nice pitching staff who's being repeatedly sunk by our zero offense. What we have is just like 2004: marquee players mixed in with scrubs or past-their-primers

 

THEN: Maggs, Paulie, Crede (when he started to hit), Lee mixed in with... hell I can't even remember who was at 2B or in right field.

 

NOW: Paulie, Thome, Cabrera, Crede... mixed in with Uribe (gasp) and Dye (worn out).

 

Back then like now our farm offers us little hope beyond Fields, who is... a power hitter.

 

Did anybody also notice we don't have a decent backup catcher? Granted Widger was no star but he had his moments of helping the team. Hall?

 

Blow it up. Blow it up and keep the pitching. We're stuck with Contreras till next year. Time to have a fire sale. Keep Swish and Crede (unlikely), but off they go.

 

[Vance Law]

but even as poorly as Crede is playing right now, I'm not sure Fields is a better option at all.

 

Not sure I follow as Crede's having a career year (for him) as of now. I agree with most everything you say here though, wite.

 

Roll up all your complaints, put them in a big pile, and then look at the Tigers and the Yankees and the Blue Jays. Look at Florida and Baltimore. Look at Cleveland's offense. The sane conclusion you should reach is that anything can happen in any given 40 games. Those good teams will probably be at the top by the end of the year. Those bad teams will surely not. Our offense is right in the middle of the league despite the and half the team are not yet hitting well. If the pitching can remain close to as great as it has been we will win a lot of games this year.

 

 

[Kalapse]

Not sure I follow as Crede's having a career year (for him) as of now. I agree with most everything you say here though, wite.

You/Darin Jackson are full of lies, this is hardly the best start to a season of Joe Crede's career.

 

Through first 36 games '08: 7 HR, 25 RBI, .270/.345/.500/.845

 

Through first 36 games '06: 8 HR, 28 RBI, .323/.361/.577/.938

 

I'd hardly call his first 1.5 months of '08 a career year.

 

[tangent]

Since the start of May Darin Jackson has been saying Crede is a notoriously slow starter which is a lie. Historically he's been pretty brutal in May but April is one of his better months.

 

April of '05: .304/.368/.456/.824

April of '06: .313/.360/.550/.910

April of '08: .258/.320/.527/.847

 

He seemed to "blossom" in '05 and he was hurt in '07 so '05, '06 and '08 would probably give you the best idea of what Joe Crede is and the numbers say he's damn good in April.

[/tangent]

[letsgoarow]

I consider every player in the MLB an "athlete"

[stretchstretch]

We will never be able to put up offensive numbers like the speedy World Series Champs, the Boston Red Sox.

 

that team had some speed mixed in, our fastest guys are just average at best, there's no crisp, pedroia to offset the other 7 on the field with the sox, and Ramirez can get on his horse if needed, he's certainly much faster than Konerko, and they have not one player nearly as slow as AJ or Thome, they are down right sloths.....

[Chisoxfn]

that team had some speed mixed in, our fastest guys are just average at best, there's no crisp, pedroia to offset the other 7 on the field with the sox, and Ramirez can get on his horse if needed, he's certainly much faster than Konerko, and they have not one player nearly as slow as AJ or Thome, they are down right sloths.....

I just want to say, it is weird having another poster on this site from Irvine, CA.

[stretchstretch]

im so sick of everyone b****ing... all it does is make it worse.

 

Saying its impossible for a team who is 2 games out in May to win a division is ridiculous.

 

 

if this was 2nd half of 06 yes, but we saw this exact same thing for two full seasons of baseball now, facts are sometimes facts when you take out the emotion of HOPE (I'm as guilty as anyone when they pull out a 7-1 win but it's fleeting).

[southsideirish71]

Teams that are in the top 5 in in the AL pitching with a 3.77 ERA and are within 2 games of first are not out of it, especially in May.

 

 

Our ERA in 05, was 3.61 just for a comparison.

 

 

 

[stretchstretch]

I just want to say, it is weird having another poster on this site from Irvine, CA.

 

any chance you have kids that go to Westpark elementary, I used to see a guy there for school events wearing an early-era Sox hat, which is beyond rare in these parts?

[stretchstretch]

Teams that are in the top 5 in in the AL pitching with a 3.77 ERA and are within 2 games of first are not out of it, especially in May.

 

 

Our ERA in 05, was 3.61 just for a comparison.

 

speaking of ERA, I remember watching the real time ERA on the board last night as Weaver's was dropping inning by inning from 5.12 to eventually

[Chisoxfn]

any chance you have kids that go to Westpark elementary, I used to see a guy there for school events wearing an early-era Sox hat, which is beyond rare in these parts?

Nope, I'm only 25, so no kids yet. I went to school and spent pretty much my whole life in Irvine though. Springbrook (Elementary), Southlake (Middle School), and than Woodbridge (HS). I know in my time in Irvine I've almost never seen anyone sporting any Sox gear.

[witesoxfan]

Not sure I follow as Crede's having a career year (for him) as of now. I agree with most everything you say here though, wite.

 

I didn't realize his OPS was up to .840...I was just remembering his numbers from about 5 days ago. That's just lack of research on my part. He's fine.

[stretchstretch]

Nope, I'm only 25, so no kids yet. I went to school and spent pretty much my whole life in Irvine though. Springbrook (Elementary), Southlake (Middle School), and than Woodbridge (HS). I know in my time in Irvine I've almost never seen anyone sporting any Sox gear.

 

so how does a guy who grew up in Irvine become a rabid CHW fan of all teams? Since leaving the SouthSide, I've lived in four other states and the Sox are a team whose gear you only see outside Chgoland as an urban-esque fashion statement (most unfortunately).

[knightni]

I consider every player in the MLB an "athlete"

Where's Steve's Ray King picture when you need it?

 

 

ahHA! Here we go: