Time to extend CQ?

[Texsox]

A couple facts on multi year deal.

 

When a player does better then expected, the team wins the deal.

When the player does less, the team loses the deal.

 

Players want to sell themselves high

 

Having said that, I'm not certain if I was Q, I'd accept a 7/$40 I'm not even certain I'd take a 6/$40 Unless he wants to cash a bigger check now.

[Wanne]

Players want to sell themselves high

 

Having said that, I'm not certain if I was Q, I'd accept a 7/$40 I'm not even certain I'd take a 6/$40 Unless he wants to cash a bigger check now.

 

Agreed. I guess that's where a good agent comes in. If I was Q and was offered that type of contract now I'd want certain escalator and incentive clauses in it. I think that way everybody may come out a winner.

[heirdog]

I compare the move to the Darko Milicic draft pick in a way, since it was also a bad move talentwise (for Detroit), but if they hadn't done it that way, they never trade for Rasheed Wallace and likely never have the run they are having right now, and certainly don't win the title in 2003-2004.

 

You don't think Detroit would have been as good with Carmelo or Bosh or DWade?!? Rasheed is a sweet shooting big that has immense talent in the post and from the outside on offense...no real defense. Bosh is similar in terms with less range and better D. Carmelo is shorter but just as adept on offense and probably more consistent. Drafting DWade would have given them a 3 guard rotation of Billups, Wade and Hamilton and then they still may have pursued the Wallace deal since they would look for a big.

 

I see the main benefit of the Carlos Lee deal being the addition of Pods (only because of the results in early 2005 and then the post season) and the salary we freed up to sign AJ, Dye etc. We don't win without those two guys either.

[Bubba Philips]

CQ is a hell of a player and for 4 more years he's under our control.. How about a performance based contract.. So much for so many at bats so much for home runs RBIs, if he makes the al star team.. Allow him to earn more than 5 million maybe he could earn 10 with incentives.. If he hurts his shoulder and doesn't produce we can still take care of CQ.. Allow CQ to make his own paycheck like so many of us who read about our baseball heroes.. Perhaps it will catch on.. Carlos can earn more and the club gets par value.

[elrockinMT]

How about we wait for awhile since he can't be a FA for a few years

[Balta1701]

How about we wait for awhile since he can't be a FA for a few years

The longer you wait, the more expensive his contract is when you do extend him.

[WCSox]

And just in terms of contract issues, like why I opened this thread...the market right now is pretty darn different from what it was 8 years ago, and so one should certainly take that in to account when managing the money.

 

We saw a couple solid examples of what happens with players who you don't lock up early with Mags and CLee. One walked out of here for nothing after burning every bridge possible, one was traded for well below his value in order to clear salary space and then signed somewhere else for 6/$100.

 

I'm not sure that Kenny would've wanted Maggs and El Caballo on the down-sides of their careers, so those situations may not be applicable.

 

The business model that TB is using with guys like Longoria is interesting, but I'm not sure that it fits with the way that Kenny and the Sox's ownership group does business. It's a really good model for a cash-strapped organization that has no shot in hell of competing on the FA market, but it's also incredibly risky. I'm not sure that JR, Einhorn, and Co. want to take that kind of a risk on an unproven player, especially when they still have the financial clout to sign free agents or acquire top talent through deals. If the Sox are blessed with another Frank Thomas in their farm system sometime in the future, then maybe. But I think it would literally take that kind of talent for them to throw $40 million at an unproven player. I don't think that CQ falls into that category. And I think that the Sox would probably wait a season or two to see if the player in question is the real deal or a flash in the pan.

Edited May 15, 2008 by WCSox

[RockRaines]

Pretty short answer to this entire thread. No. Not even close to the time to extend him.

[rangercal]

I'm not sure that Kenny would've wanted Maggs and El Caballo on the down-sides of their careers, so those situations may not be applicable.

 

You see the topic is about extending a player 1 or 2 seasons after a players' major league debut. In comparison to similar deals given out the last couple months, Maggs would have received an 8 year extension somewhere between 2000-01 and Lee 2001-02. Hypothetically speaking of course, how much of a bargain would it have been to have them each on the payroll at about 5-6 mil per year until 2010? I can see why teams are operating this way (especially small market teams). It kind of reminds me how the bears have been doing business under Angelo.

[RockRaines]

why doesnt everyone just post no so the thread can be answered and closed.

[jackie hayes]

I don't think it's a bad idea. See if he makes it through this year fully healthy, then you try to buy out a year, maybe two.

 

I wouldn't do it right this moment -- both for the health check, and because this pace he's on is pretty ridiculous. If you pay him based on the past month and a half, it would be stratospheric. If he can sustain it for a year, I'd say he's worth it anyway. If he comes back to earth, he'll still be good, but you're paying a few dollars less.

[WCSox]

You see the topic is about extending a player 1 or 2 seasons after a players' major league debut. In comparison to similar deals given out the last couple months, Maggs would have received an 8 year extension somewhere between 2000-01 and Lee 2001-02. Hypothetically speaking of course, how much of a bargain would it have been to have them each on the payroll at about 5-6 mil per year until 2010?

 

How much of a bargain would it have been if the Rays had given Rocco Baldelli a $30 million deal in his second year?

 

I like what the Marlins did with Hanley Ramirez, given that he's essentially a hybrid of A-Rod and Ricky Henderson and has serious HOF potential (and was one HR short of a 30/50 season last year). But I didn't see the same level of talent in Maggs or Carlos Lee back then - or Carlos Quentin now. What the Rays did with Evan Longoria reeks of desperation.

Edited May 15, 2008 by WCSox

[rangercal]

How much of a bargain would it have been if the Rays would have given Rocco Baldelli a $40 million deal in his second year?

 

I like what the Marlins did with Hanley Ramirez, given that he's essentially a hybrid of A-Rod and Ricky Henderson and has serious HOF potential (and was one HR short of a 30/50 season last year). But I didn't see the same level of talent in Maggs or Carlos Lee back then - or Carlos Quentin now. What the Rays did with Evan Longoria reeks of desperation.

I agree with the Baldelli example. I don't think anyone is comparing Q,Maggs or Clee to Ramirez. Ramirez, received 70 mil over 6 years. That's not even close to what Q would get now or Lee and Ordonez back then.

[WCSox]

I agree with the Baldelli example. I don't think anyone is comparing Q,Maggs or Clee to Ramirez. Ramirez, received 70 mil over 6 years. That's not even close to what Q would get now or Lee and Ordonez back then.

 

It's easy to use Maggs and C-Lee as examples, because you have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. But what if Quentin signs a six-year deal for $40 million and he morphs into another Rocco Baldelli?

 

I'm not really a big fan of signing good-but-not-great players to long-term deals after two full years of ML service. Most of those players aren't productive in the bigs until their mid-20's, meaning that they'd be on the down-slope of their careers towards the end of those deals. If I were a GM, I'd rather have that player under team control for four more years (including one year of pre-arbitration salary) and then let somebody else over-pay for them when they hit the FA market.

 

On the other hand, if it's an exceptional talent (like Hanley Ramirez), it might be time to roll the dice. Because that guy will be a difference-maker on your roster for a longer period of time and will rake in tons of cash for your organization if he's even remotely marketable.

Edited May 16, 2008 by WCSox

[greg775]

Not a bad idea, Balta, he certainly looks like the real deal.

[JPN366]

Nah, he's gonna need some seasoning in Charlotte next year after he spends the rest of this year in Chicago.

[RockRaines]

ugh its an awful idea, he's been somewhat injury prone, hasnt played a full year of MLB ball and wont even have 2 years of service time after this season, its beyond a bad idea.

[sircaffey]

A good month and a half doesn't earn $50 million. Talk to me this time next year, at the earliest.

[sircaffey]

The longer you wait, the more expensive his contract is when you do extend him.

 

Not necessarily.

[farmteam]

Especially given injury history, I'd want at least 1.5 years of an all star caliber performance before I thought about throwing that kind of money at CQ. I think the extra money it would cost us would be worth it.

[southsider2k5]

I know these deals are all the rage right now, but what happens when someone throws $50 million at the next Chris Shelton? There is no doubting Quentin is good when healthy, but do we know he can stay healthy for 5/6/7 years? He has had a couple of MAJOR surgeries. That makes me nervous.

[Melissa1334]

LOL. The CQ love has got to stop. I've been posting here since 2003 and I've never seen an entire board orgasm at the very mention of a guy's name. Q has been outstanding. But we're a month and a half into a six month season. Let's see if the guy does it for an entire year before we start talking about Hanley Ramirez type contract extensions.

 

Another thing, does Greg Walker get any type of credit for Q's start? He sure does get the blame when a future HOF starts sucking.

just sign him already

[Princess Dye]

with position players, you generally know what you have. once they've achieved their best level of production, the odds are they'll sustain that for a few yrs

 

i say sign

[RockRaines]

with position players, you generally know what you have. once they've achieved their best level of production, the odds are they'll sustain that for a few yrs

 

i say sign

Umm what? That makes zero sense, Baldelli, Shelton, how about rookie of the year Angel Berroa? He is under our control for cheap for several seasons, you DO NOT sign him now and we wont.

[Kalapse]

ugh its an awful idea, he's been somewhat injury prone, hasnt played a full year of MLB ball and wont even have 2 years of service time after this season, its beyond a bad idea.

His service number will be 2.060 by the end of this season. If he really is THIS good, next year will be his final "cheap" season.

 

But yeah, I agree with the majority on this one. The earliest you start worrying about extending him is May or June of next year and that's only if he stays completely healthy and productive up until then.