Official 2008-2009 NBA Thread

[HuskyCaucasian]

Those photos piss me off. Yelling in his suit. f***ing pathetic.

The Bulls have better self-control than i do. At some point, on an inbounds play, I'd have probably turned around and chucked a ball at his face.

[Jenksismyhero]

The ending of that game pretty much summed up why I hate NBA basketball - comes down to one guy on one guy, with the advantage always with the offensive player. Credit Pierce for hitting those shots, but where the fudge is the defense? Oh that's right, the NBA doesn't like defense. Honestly, the Bulls should have won the series tonight 4-1 but due to their inability to play ANY transition defense, and the TERRIBLE turnovers (always at THE worst time), they let Boston win 2 close games.

 

And Ben Gordon. Ugh. I love the shots he hits, but the 10 he misses drive me nuts. I hope that in the next few years Rose somehow steals just a little bit of that "I have to take every shot in the game" mentality. I trust Gordon to hit a jump shot over Rose, but I trust Rose to be able to drive and hit a runner to win a game (which unfortunately he can't do without the ball).

 

Also, I cannot believe they didn't call a flagrant against Rondo. If that exact play happened in the first quarter that's a flagrant, no doubt. But apparently a "playoff foul" allows you to deck a guy so long as you're within 5 feet of the ball. I seriously hope that in the next two games someone gets a chance to smack the piss out of Rondo (or KG...please god let it be KG) while trying to swat at the ball.

 

And totally agree about Boston fans. I'd rather have my testicles cut off than be stuck in a bar full of Celtic/Red Sox/Bruins and/or Patriot fans during a game.

[HuskyCaucasian]

And Ben Gordon. Ugh. I love the shots he hits, but the 10 he misses drive me nuts. I hope that in the next few years Rose somehow steals just a little bit of that "I have to take every shot in the game" mentality. I trust Gordon to hit a jump shot over Rose, but I trust Rose to be able to drive and hit a runner to win a game (which unfortunately he can't do without the ball).

Oh, i think he DOES have that mentality. But when you have BG on the floor in a clutch situation, Rose wont get the ball. BG will hog it for all the glory.

[Brian]

I've lost pretty much all respect for KG. Boston has made him a big-headed piece of s***.

 

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/7b/fullj.1d...lls_celtics.jpg

 

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/660123b...7784935a4ab.jpg

 

What a b****.

 

Sweep the leg, BG.

[Steve9347]

I've lost pretty much all respect for KG. Boston has made him a big-headed piece of s***.

 

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/7b/fullj.1d...lls_celtics.jpg

 

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/660123b...7784935a4ab.jpg

 

What a b****.

Wow, KG needed two All-Stars around him to win a f***ing ring. So while he's in his suit, he yells at a guy who has the balls to play through an injury and put up a damn good game.

 

Garnett is a b****.

[Kyyle23]

I would love to see the Bulls beat the Celtics and have someone else barking back at him

[Chisoxfn]

Rose didn't even touch the ball. Unreal.

 

Wish we never let Skiles go.

Why should Mr. Turnover machine touch the ball. Rose was clearly frustrated yesterday and giving him the ball at the end would have been a massive mistake, imo.

[Chisoxfn]

I watch these games and I want to commit acts of violence so badly. I don't want to single out Rose in particular tonight, but just some dumbass plays on the court tonight.

I don't know what they are going to do going forward to get some better players around Rose. I just didn't want to see him shooting at all at the end of this game unless it was a lay-up.

Rose is the worse f***ing defender I've seen in a long time. At times he'll make a real good defensive play but as a whole he is so f***ing bad.

[Chisoxfn]

Yes they did. I was screaming at my tv to get Kirk back in the damn game. Yet he didn't come back in till it was down to 3 or so.

Kirk and Ben Gordon have been the two MVP's in the back court this series. Rose had one game. Hinrich defense has been tremendous. Heck, I'll even give Salmons credit, he did a great job on Pierce, despite Pierce hitting the same exact shot three times in a row. There was nothing else Salmons could do on those.

[Chisoxfn]

Watching the replay again; I'm kinda surprised Miller didn't step back and try to hit a 3 on the last shot. Not ideal by any means, but was an option.

I don't think Miller realized he had enough time to go in for the dunk. I'm pretty sure he's almost never been in that sort of position in his career.

[Chisoxfn]

Anyone else notice the evil stare Rose gave Gordon after Gordon's off balance jumper to end regulation? Basically a, "you know you were supposed to get me the ball, but you wanted to be the hero" look.

Are you kidding me? Why the f*** should Derek Rose get the ball? Seriously, I'm sick of people that continue to complain about Gordon. I was Gordons biggest knocker throughout his career but come on. Derek Rose was awful yesterday and giving him the ball, puhleease. Maybe he'd have tripped over himself or gotten bailed out on a block call and than b****ed and cried to the refs like he did last night all game long.

 

I'm not buying Rose as much as most on here are. I think he's got the potential to be great but a lot of people here have annoited him far sooner than he should get annoited. Yet its guys like Hinrich, Gordon, Noah, heck even Salmons (defensively Salmons has played good, offensively, you can tell he's hurting big time) that are as much a part of this series as Rose.

[Soxbadger]

The biggest problem I have is that when you have the ball and 10 seconds you should run a play that is going to get you a good look.

 

The Bulls used a play (earlier in the game) yesterday that would have been great in the final 10 seconds. You have Rose at the top of the arc with the ball, you have Gordon and a C or PF on one side of the court and the rest of the team on the other. The PF runs a screen for Gordon (Gordon moving away from the basket) and the screening player then attacks the basket.

 

If the Defender overplays Gordon its an easy pass to the man driving, if they dont overplay Gordon gets a good look.

 

Either way I just cant stand watching the same stupid isolation play over and over.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Soxbadger

[whitesoxfan101]

Are you kidding me? Why the f*** should Derek Rose get the ball?

 

Umm because he's the best player on the team at creating open shots for either himself or somebody else? Plus, Ben Gordon isn't particularly good at creating his own shot, he just fools people into thinking he is at times because he gets so hot from the field that anything he tries goes on. Last night, however, was not one of those nights (although the shot he hit late in the 4th to put the Bulls up was a circus attempt that dropped). Rose had a poor game, but he still has to be given the ball and given a chance to create in an end of game situation. The only time I'd let Gordon take the ball all the way in a spot like that would be in a scenario like game 2, where he just is absolutely unconscious from the field.

 

On a side note, I don't think i've ever seen a player who made fans say dumber things (and EVERYBODY has been guilty of it at some point) than Ben Gordon. A lot of people think he's some cross between Reggie Miller and Ray Allen in their prime, while many others just think he completely sucks. The BG arguments are one thing I won't miss if he's gone after this season, that's for sure.

Edited April 29, 2009 by whitesoxfan101

[Balta1701]

Are you kidding me? Why the f*** should Derek Rose get the ball? Seriously, I'm sick of people that continue to complain about Gordon. I was Gordons biggest knocker throughout his career but come on. Derek Rose was awful yesterday and giving him the ball, puhleease. Maybe he'd have tripped over himself or gotten bailed out on a block call and than b****ed and cried to the refs like he did last night all game long.

 

I'm not buying Rose as much as most on here are. I think he's got the potential to be great but a lot of people here have annoited him far sooner than he should get annoited. Yet its guys like Hinrich, Gordon, Noah, heck even Salmons (defensively Salmons has played good, offensively, you can tell he's hurting big time) that are as much a part of this series as Rose.

I think other people have replied in different ways, but I'll put it in my words. I have zero problems with Ben Gordon taking last shots. He's a pretty good shooter and can hit things even when he shouldn't (see; the 3 in OT1 in game 4).

 

The problem is...if you just give him the ball and run an isolation play for it, and everyone's expecting it, then unless the opposing coach is dumber than Vinny Del Negro, the defense is going to be prepared for it, so they're not going to give him a good look. Either he's going to have a hand directly in his face with a man right on him or he's going to face a double team or he's going to wind up having to hit a shot like the game 4 shot...something that he'll probably only make 20% of the time because it's so expected and well defended.

 

The reason to put the ball in Rose's hands is so that you at least start off by running your normal offense, so that the guy you want to take the shot has to move and you have a chance to actually make him open. Take a look at the 4th quarter shots Allen has hit this series, they always seem to have him open. Why? Because they never give the ball straight to him off the inbound, they never rely on him to get open on his own, they start off with the ball in Pierce or Rondo's hands and use a screen or motion to create an open, easy shot for him to bury.

 

I'd be content with the ball in Hinrich's hands, or on a lob in to the big guys, followed by a kickout, whatever. The problem isn't Gordon taking the shot for me, it's that we don't give him anything to make last second shots easier.

[Steve9347]

The problem goes back to one I've been harping on all season. VDN is a rookie head coach and never had coaching experience. He sucks at drawing up last plays, and it bites us in the ass all the time.

 

Calling a play for Brad Miller... get outta here. Sure, it worked... it got him open, but it's still Brad f***ing Miller.

[rangercal]

The problem goes back to one I've been harping on all season. VDN is a rookie head coach and never had coaching experience. He sucks at drawing up last plays, and it bites us in the ass all the time.

 

Calling a play for Brad Miller... get outta here. Sure, it worked... it got him open, but it's still Brad f***ing Miller.

 

Give me a break Steve, I guess if Phil Jackson did it with Bill Wennington, it's ok.

 

 

 

All this BG and VDN thrashing is getting old fast.

[ZoomSlowik]

Are you kidding me? Why the f*** should Derek Rose get the ball? Seriously, I'm sick of people that continue to complain about Gordon. I was Gordons biggest knocker throughout his career but come on. Derek Rose was awful yesterday and giving him the ball, puhleease. Maybe he'd have tripped over himself or gotten bailed out on a block call and than b****ed and cried to the refs like he did last night all game long.

 

I'm not buying Rose as much as most on here are. I think he's got the potential to be great but a lot of people here have annoited him far sooner than he should get annoited. Yet its guys like Hinrich, Gordon, Noah, heck even Salmons (defensively Salmons has played good, offensively, you can tell he's hurting big time) that are as much a part of this series as Rose.

 

Gordon wasn't exactly having a great night either, he was 6-21 from the floor for christ's sake. Granted he was getting a bunch of free throws, but an isolation play for Gordon probably wasn't going to end well with the night he was having. He's had a great series, but if he's not hot a Rose drive is their best option because the odds are far higher that Rose will find the big man cutting to the basket or hit Gordon/Salmons for an open jumper. With Gordon on an isolation the odds are extremely high that he's going to throw up a contested jumper, which can work but is far from ideal if he's having an off night.

 

As for Rose, he's turning it over at a much higher rate than we're used to and his D has been quite bad, but he's also averaging 18-6-7 on the series and shooting 49% from the floor (yes, I realize his great game 1 inflates that, but his game 3 performance hurts just as much). That's pretty damn good for a rookie PG, and if he ever learns to draw fouls/get calls he's going to be essentially unstoppable.

[rangercal]

Gordon wasn't exactly having a great night either, he was 6-21 from the floor for christ's sake. Granted he was getting a bunch of free throws, but an isolation play for Gordon probably wasn't going to end well with the night he was having. He's had a great series, but if he's not hot a Rose drive is their best option because the odds are far higher that Rose will find the big man cutting to the basket or hit Gordon/Salmons for an open jumper. With Gordon on an isolation the odds are extremely high that he's going to throw up a contested jumper, which can work but is far from ideal if he's having an off night.

 

As for Rose, he's turning it over at a much higher rate than we're used to and his D has been quite bad, but he's also averaging 18-6-7 on the series and shooting 49% from the floor (yes, I realize his great game 1 inflates that, but his game 3 performance hurts just as much). That's pretty damn good for a rookie PG, and if he ever learns to draw fouls/get calls he's going to be essentially unstoppable.

 

When Gordon wasn't shooting, Drose or Brad Miller was turning it over. I'll take BGs poor shooting on top of getting to the line game any day. When it was crunch time he went to the line for 3 and had that off the backboard shot.

 

Bottom line, we lose by 10+ without him out there yesterday.

 

The only regret I had for yesterday was Kirk should have received a lot more PT, in favor of ROSE.

Edited April 29, 2009 by rangercal

[Steve9347]

Give me a break Steve, I guess if Phil Jackson did it with Bill Wennington, it's ok.

 

 

 

All this BG and VDN thrashing is getting old fast.

I'm not thrashing Gordon, he rose up while injured and might have shot 6/21, but was still the only reason we made it to OT.

 

Phil Jackson would never, I repeat NEVER have called a last shot for Bill Wennington. He called one for Kerr... a shooter, because he knew everyone would condense upon M-Jeff. (this is the smart thing to do)

 

Gordon should have had that last shot... we had 3 seconds. If not him, figure out a play where Rose is headed to the basket, or better yet, DESIGN a play where Gordon immediately gets the ball. The defense will collapse on him, and you can find Kirk open beyond the stripe for the win. Anything was better than Brad Miller getting the final shot.

 

Now, this brings up something else. VDN continued to call man-to-man and let Paul Pierce hit the exact same shot 4 f***ing times. They should have double-teamed Pierce and made Tony Allen or someone else beat them with an outside shot. No. They persistently allowed Pierce to get the one shot we all knew he could hit at will.

[Balta1701]

The problem goes back to one I've been harping on all season. VDN is a rookie head coach and never had coaching experience. He sucks at drawing up last plays, and it bites us in the ass all the time.

 

Calling a play for Brad Miller... get outta here. Sure, it worked... it got him open, but it's still Brad f***ing Miller.

No problem with the concept of getting the ball to a big man on the last second. It's a type of play I wish we'd try more; if teams are expecting us to go to Gordon, and we send the ball inside, you're likely to get a high percentage shot which is helped by the fact that the defense will be out of position because they're expecting the ball to go to Gordon, so you wind up with things like Rondo being the guy going after Miller. I wish we'd try things like lobs to Tyrus or Noah off of the inbounds more often as well. Doing the same thing over and over only works if the opposing coach is Vinny Del Negro.

[rangercal]

I'm not thrashing Gordon, he rose up while injured and might have shot 6/21, but was still the only reason we made it to OT.

 

Phil Jackson would never, I repeat NEVER have called a last shot for Bill Wennington. He called one for Kerr... a shooter, because he knew everyone would condense upon M-Jeff. (this is the smart thing to do)

 

Gordon should have had that last shot... we had 3 seconds. If not him, figure out a play where Rose is headed to the basket, or better yet, DESIGN a play where Gordon immediately gets the ball. The defense will collapse on him, and you can find Kirk open beyond the stripe for the win. Anything was better than Brad Miller getting the final shot.

 

Now, this brings up something else. VDN continued to call man-to-man and let Paul Pierce hit the exact same shot 4 f***ing times. They should have double-teamed Pierce and made Tony Allen or someone else beat them with an outside shot. No. They persistently allowed Pierce to get the one shot we all knew he could hit at will.

 

 

55

[HuskyCaucasian]

Phil Jackson would never, I repeat NEVER have called a last shot for Bill Wennington. He called one for Kerr... a shooter, because he knew everyone would condense upon M-Jeff. (this is the smart thing to do)

I actually thought the play was brilliant and almost worked.

I;ll take a Miller open lane drive over a Gordon off-balance crazy shot anyday.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Athomeboy_2000

[rangercal]

Looks like Dwight may get suspended for that shot. I personally think he should get 2 games. How many games would someone like Aaron Gray get?

[ZoomSlowik]

When Gordon wasn't shooting, Drose or Brad Miller was turning it over. I'll take BGs poor shooting on top of getting to the line game any day. When it was crunch time he went to the line for 3 and had that off the backboard shot.

 

Bottom line, we lose by 10+ without him out there yesterday.

 

The only regret I had for yesterday was Kirk should have received a lot more PT, in favor of ROSE.

 

As Balta said, I don't have a problem with Gordon getting the call on the last shot as much as Gordon GETTING AN ISO on the last shot on a night where he shot 6-21. If he's not pulling great contested shots out of his ass at a high rate like he has for good chunks of this series, it's not a particularly good call. Pretty much everyone was bad late in the game, that's why they blew an 11-point lead. That's not the issue, the issue is what call gets you the best chance at converting. At least run Gordon off some screens before getting him the shot or get it to him on a drive and kick, that'll get him a much better look.

[rangercal]

As Balta said, I don't have a problem with Gordon getting the call on the last shot as much as Gordon GETTING AN ISO on the last shot on a night where he shot 6-21. If he's not pulling great contested shots out of his ass at a high rate like he has for good chunks of this series, it's not a particularly good call. Pretty much everyone was bad late in the game, that's why they blew an 11-point lead. That's not the issue, the issue is what call gets you the best chance at converting. At least run Gordon off some screens before getting him the shot or get it to him on a drive and kick, that'll get him a much better look.

 

I apologize. Just sorting through the Blind Gordon Hate and realize you are one of the few to back up your posts with facts.