Official 2008-2009 NBA Thread

[whitesoxfan99]

Atlanta-Miami has to be the most boring 7 game series ever. Not one game decided by single figures unless Miami goes on a ridiculous run in the last 6 minutes.

[Balta1701]

Isn't wade gonna come?

Here's the problem with Wade. The Bulls best bet right now to get any of the 2010 guys is a sign and trade. They're a couple million dollars away from being able to offer these guys a full max contract unless the economy dramatically improves next year or they manage to move someone. And...if they have any interest in holding on to Gordon, they can't hold on to Gordon and keep their 2010 cap space without moving Deng...it's impossible.

 

So, if the Bulls want a shot at Wade, they need all of these things to happen: they need to let Gordon go, they need to move Salmons, Deng, Hinrich, Noah, or Tyrus and in exchange manage to cut probably about $3 million in salary for 2010, and they need Wade to actually leave Miami and come to Chicago, probably taking less money in the process.

 

Reality is...it's going to be far easier for the Bulls to do a sign and trade to pick up Bosh than it is to grab one of the 2010 guys after they actually hit the FA market. It even can give the Bulls a shot to resign Gordon...because the Bulls could move their current salary to pick up the guy in a trade, and then still have money under the luxury tax for a Gordon extension...they never have to go below the cap if they do it as a trade.

[Balta1701]

Kelly Dwyer spends like an hour of writing just ripping VDN.

I know that it's a coach's job to create an atmosphere suitable for winning. It's a coach's job to prepare his or her team. It's a coach's job to do what's necessary, with the parts he has, to come out victorious in competition.

 

Vinny Del Negro did none of these things in Game 7, or for most of the series, for that matter. All series long the Chicago Bulls were getting by on talent and talent alone, playing as essentially the sum of their parts and no more, utilizing one-on-one ball, and only coming through with a passable rotation because John Paxson traded all the players (like Andres Nocioni) that Del Negro used to hurt his team with, or traded for players that stopped him from giving minutes to guys (like Aaron Gray) who were hurting the team.

 

Chicago could not put itself in a position to win in the second half of this game because Vinny Del Negro ran with a four guard lineup that could not set a screen to save its life on offense (because, newsflash, 6-2 guards aren't really great at setting screens on 6-7 forwards), and was consistently dominated in the paint on defense. If Boston hits its usual rate of free throws in the third quarter, or if the team makes a few more of those gimmies in the paint, this could have been a 25-point loss.

 

Why? Because Vinny Del Negro could not think on his feet, adapt, and put his team in a position to win.

 

I don't know what he has against power forwards, but tossing out 20-year old rookie Derrick Rose as a weak-side helper is just the height of ... well, you know what I'm getting at. It's hard enough to try and get Rose to understand NBA-level defense on opposing point guards, how's he going to know how to act like Udonis Haslem in the fourth quarter of a Game 7? And yet, that's what Del Negro was asking of him.

 

Did you see how many hats, all in one possession, Joakim Noah had to wear? He had to show on a screen and roll, contest a shot in the paint, try to block out his man, try to block out the opposing power forward, and do all this within a five-second turn. For a guy in his second year in the NBA. I wouldn't ask Dwight Howard to do that. Why? Because the Magic would lose, and Dwight Howard would be angry with me.

 

But that's Vinny Del Negro. He's turned what was a top-flight defensive team under Scott Skiles that covered all angles, moved the ball offensively, and had a drive-and-kick offense into predictable, one-on-one mess that was bailed out in the second half of the season by Chicago's solid offensive talent, and a post-trade deadline schedule that was rife with crummy and injured teams.

 

One through eight, you can't tell me that Boston is more talented than Chicago. And you can't tell me that it was Boston's "championship pedigree" or "veteran savvy" that was tossing in baskets in the paint while Derrick Rose or Ben Gordon helplessly tried to cover the role that a power forward should be covering. I picked Boston in seven to begin this series, but that was only because I expected Chicago -- the more talented basketball team -- to suffer because of the whims of their coaching staff. I'm being completely honest. I had no faith in that crew. And I turned out to be right. And I hate it.

 

....

The Bulls turned the ball over way too much in the second quarter. Kirk Hinrich came out and laid an egg. Brad Miller made more bad decisions. Vinny Del Negro didn't cuase these things. Yet, those are mitigating factors you can overcome.

 

But not with a lineup that features four guards, having to ignore every defensive instinct (now they have to guard the front of the rim?) they've been taught, as guards, since grade school. Not with Noah or Brad Miller (by themselves, not together) out there having to do the work of two positions.

 

Not with Tyrus Thomas on the bench, pulling in more rebounds (five) than his replacement "power forward" (John Salmons) did in 42 minutes. I don't care if Thomas makes mistakes. I don't care if he takes possessions off. I don't care if the Bulls should have drafted Brandon Roy or LaMarcus Aldridge. Thomas' flighty, typical play is still better than an injured shooting guard having to play power forward in a Game 7 on the road.

 

The stats for Thomas are modest, though pretty solid per-minute. Four points, five rebounds, two blocks, two steals, two assists, one turnover in about 17 minutes. That's not the point. The point is that you need a power forward out there to cover the rim. To rebound. To play his role. You don't ask Salmons or Rose or Gordon or Hinrich to try that out. Not in any playoff game, much less this one.

More ripping happens at link.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Looks like Pax is going to be promoted out of the GM position. Heard that on the drive to work today.

[Steve9347]

Looks like Pax is going to be promoted out of the GM position. Heard that on the drive to work today.

to?? President of Basketball Operations or something?

[southsider2k5]

So our of curiousity, is anyone else completely done with the NBA playoffs at this point?

[Steve9347]

So our of curiousity, is anyone else completely done with the NBA playoffs at this point?

I'll be 100% fixated on the Hawks instead of 95.5%...

[Kyyle23]

to?? President of Basketball Operations or something?

 

Yep, thats exactly what they speculated this morning. I believe they said Gar Heard would be taking Paxsons spot.

 

 

I bet that is the weight of the world off of Paxsons shoulders

[whitesoxfan101]

So our of curiousity, is anyone else completely done with the NBA playoffs at this point?

 

I won't watch them again until Cleveland and the Lakers play in The Finals. Between my disgust at the Bulls losing to an inferior team (which is what Boston was without Garnett) and the fact that only two teams having a shot to win it all, there is no reason to watch again until then.

 

As for others things in here, good to see Kelly Dwyer's scathing (and accurate) comments on the abomination that is Coach VDN. And if the Bulls pass up on Bosh for Dwyane Wade, I am going to be pretty damn pissed. Wade is a fantastic player, but this team NEEDS a scoring big BADLY, plus Wade is beaten to s*** and I question how many really good years he has left. The talent is stll there obviously to be a top 5 player as he showed this year, but I don't trust his body with all the abuse it's taken.

Edited May 4, 2009 by whitesoxfan101

[chw42]

I to, would rather have Bosh than Wade. Rose and Wade would be one of the best backcourts in the next 5 or so years, but we'd still be stuck with Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah down low. Blech.

[Steve9347]

I to, would rather have Bosh than Wade. Rose and Wade would be one of the best backcourts in the next 5 or so years, but we'd still be stuck with Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah down low. Blech.

I think sticking Bosh next to Noah would be awesome.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I think sticking Bosh next to Noah would be awesome.

yea. For next year, I really like this lineup (assuming we can swing a trade for Bosh)

 

PG - Rose

SG - Salmons

SF - Deng

PF/C - Noah

C/PF - Bosh

[chw42]

I think sticking Bosh next to Noah would be awesome.

 

It would work out pretty well. While Bosh isn't the kind of guy who can post up on you and just power you, he is still a low scoring threat. Noah will be the one getting the put backs, blocks, and rebounds while Bosh will certainly help spread the offense. We became much too reliant on our guards this season and we won't get anywhere if that continues.

[rangercal]

I to, would rather have Bosh than Wade. Rose and Wade would be one of the best backcourts in the next 5 or so years, but we'd still be stuck with Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah down low. Blech.

 

Noah is the 2nd most important player on the roster. No way is he "blech" to me. Tyrus on the other hand... I am starting to have my doubts.

[Steve9347]

Noah is the 2nd most important player on the roster. No way is he "blech" to me. Tyrus on the other hand... I am starting to have my doubts.

Agreed. Noah has proven that he can be more than a serviceable center for a long time. He is very important.

[Soxbadger]

I used to dislike Noah greatly (UF of player didnt help), but watching him this series I actually liked what he was doing. Unlike some players on the team he isnt going to be selfish and he always is out there giving 100%. Maybe his scoring ability is limited, but he makes up for that by not trying to be an offensive threat.

 

The player Im most down on is Ben Gordon. I know some people love him, but he is just way to selfish for me. Every time he comes off the bench, etc he always takes a shot to try and prove that hes really the man.

 

 

[chw42]

Noah is the 2nd most important player on the roster. No way is he "blech" to me. Tyrus on the other hand... I am starting to have my doubts.

 

But if you put those two together, I don't see anything great. Put Noah next to Bosh or Boozer and you might have something.

 

If only Carlos Boozer was actually healthy most of the time, he would be a interesting commodity.

[Balta1701]

But if you put those two together, I don't see anything great. Put Noah next to Bosh or Boozer and you might have something.

 

If only Carlos Boozer was actually healthy most of the time, he would be a interesting commodity.

If Tyrus and Noah can each add just a little bit of weight/strength, and we are smart about how we use either the MLE or Aaron Gray, I still think TT/Noah can work as an excellent front court.

 

The problems are; 1. Our coaches refuse to play TT, and think that the small lineup is the way to go under all circumstances...

 

and 2., the biggest guys (Dwight Howard) can just outmuscle us, and we're not good enough on offense yet to use our quickness to either draw them away from the basket or get them in foul trouble.

 

I still think what we have in these 2 guys can work excellently well alongside Rose, Deng, and Gordon, I think we saw some of that working effectively this year (particularly as Rose develops as a distributor of the ball)...but if we're always going to bench TT, or if we're not smart about how we run things, then finding someone else is better than trying it our way. I'd love to see that lineup develop together for 5 years, but it doesn't work if you think Rose is better at guarding PF's than Thomas.

[Brian]

Ha. Glen Davis gets tapped on the noggin and acts like he took a Stone Cold Stunner.

[ThunderBolt]

Who's more to blame for the Celtics looking like this against the Magic? The Bulls wearing them down or Vinny Del Negro?

[MHizzle85]

Ha. Glen Davis gets tapped on the noggin and acts like he took a Stone Cold Stunner.

Like The Rock takes a stunner at Wrestlemania or like everyone else takes a stunner?

[T R U]

I wish Orlando would stop blowing big leads

[lostfan]

Noah is the 2nd most important player on the roster. No way is he "blech" to me. Tyrus on the other hand... I am starting to have my doubts.

Tyrus has all the talent in the world, and he's really been working hard on his shooting and come a long way, but he's got a ridiculously low basketball IQ.

[southsider2k5]

If Tyrus and Noah can each add just a little bit of weight/strength, and we are smart about how we use either the MLE or Aaron Gray, I still think TT/Noah can work as an excellent front court.

 

The problems are; 1. Our coaches refuse to play TT, and think that the small lineup is the way to go under all circumstances...

 

and 2., the biggest guys (Dwight Howard) can just outmuscle us, and we're not good enough on offense yet to use our quickness to either draw them away from the basket or get them in foul trouble.

 

I still think what we have in these 2 guys can work excellently well alongside Rose, Deng, and Gordon, I think we saw some of that working effectively this year (particularly as Rose develops as a distributor of the ball)...but if we're always going to bench TT, or if we're not smart about how we run things, then finding someone else is better than trying it our way. I'd love to see that lineup develop together for 5 years, but it doesn't work if you think Rose is better at guarding PF's than Thomas.

 

So how many coaches will dwindle Ty's playing time before we start to realize that Ty just isn't going to realize his potential?

[Balta1701]

So how many coaches will dwindle Ty's playing time before we start to realize that Ty just isn't going to realize his potential?

I posted this a page ago and I'll post it again in reply.

The Bulls turned the ball over way too much in the second quarter. Kirk Hinrich came out and laid an egg. Brad Miller made more bad decisions. Vinny Del Negro didn't cuase these things. Yet, those are mitigating factors you can overcome.

 

But not with a lineup that features four guards, having to ignore every defensive instinct (now they have to guard the front of the rim?) they've been taught, as guards, since grade school. Not with Noah or Brad Miller (by themselves, not together) out there having to do the work of two positions.

 

Not with Tyrus Thomas on the bench, pulling in more rebounds (five) than his replacement "power forward" (John Salmons) did in 42 minutes. I don't care if Thomas makes mistakes. I don't care if he takes possessions off. I don't care if the Bulls should have drafted Brandon Roy or LaMarcus Aldridge. Thomas' flighty, typical play is still better than an injured shooting guard having to play power forward in a Game 7 on the road.

The stats for Thomas are modest, though pretty solid per-minute. Four points, five rebounds, two blocks, two steals, two assists, one turnover in about 17 minutes. That's not the point. The point is that you need a power forward out there to cover the rim. To rebound. To play his role. You don't ask Salmons or Rose or Gordon or Hinrich to try that out. Not in any playoff game, much less this one.

It's not just him not playing to his potential, it's the fact that taking him out so predictably makes the Bulls a worse team.