rangercal Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 01:26 PM) Another point I haven't seen mentioned is the huge leap that the games of Tyrus and Noah have taken upwards this year. If VDN gets slammed for the bad, he should get equal credit for the good. You are exactly right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 12:50 PM) You are not accustomed to following a team where rookies come to die. Did you expect Curry or Chandler to dominate from day one? Rookie bigs take time to develop. Look at Dwight Howard, he's only become a bonafide superstar in what is his 4th season, and a lot of that is due to SVG pushing him a lot harder than Brian Hill ever did. I see a lot of similarities b/w VDN and Brian Hill actually FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 02:05 PM) Did you expect Curry or Chandler to dominate from day one? Rookie bigs take time to develop. Look at Dwight Howard, he's only become a bonafide superstar in what is his 4th season, and a lot of that is due to SVG pushing him a lot harder than Brian Hill ever did. I see a lot of similarities b/w VDN and Brian Hill actually FWIW. Dwight Howard is a bad Example... Dwights season as an 18 year old was probably better than anything Tyson or Eddy has every done. Brian Hill is a bad Example.... Did you forget that his 1st year as coach was 93-94? Shaq's 2nd year and Penny Hardaway's 1st. btw, he went to the finals his second year as coach. If you see similarities with him and VDN, GOOD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 02:12 PM) Dwight Howard is a bad Example... Dwights season as an 18 year old was probably better than anything Tyson or Eddy has every done. Brian Hill is a bad Example.... Did you forget that his 1st year as coach was 93-94? Shaq's 2nd year and Penny Hardaway's 1st. btw, he went to the finals his second year as coach. If you see similarities with him and VDN, GOOD! Howard averaged 12 and 10 in his 1st season. Chandler should at least have a season like that. Brian Hill is not a good NBA coach (if you watched his stint in Orlando the 2nd time around, you'd know why). He got forced out by a player's mutiny when Shaq left, and any coach probably could have taken that Magic team to the Finals considering how good Shaq and Penny were in those days. Looking at the stats, the Bulls certainly aren't a good defensive team, and that's the main thing that the Bulls and VDN need to work on if they want to have any sort of success in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 11:29 AM) Rather than agree with your pre-season concerns, I am going to look at the net results. Playoffs + ROY= he stays. Really? Thats all it takes to keep your job? I'll give VDN this much, this team is somewhat better than I expected. This team has the talent to probably be a 5 seed in the East. VDN at this point in his career won't be able to bring that out of him, he just isn't equipped to do so. With Erik Spoelstra it's different because he's already got his bonafide superstar & he came up through the system in Miami, the players were already comfortable with him. As for Derrick being ROY? I'll take it, but OJ Mayo is having a better year. It's just that Mayo's on a s***ty team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 02:31 PM) As for Derrick being ROY? I'll take it, but OJ Mayo is having a better year. It's just that Mayo's on a s***ty team. I strongly disagree, Rose has been virtually as productive offensively (especially outside of November when Mayo shot aburdly well) despite not having a strong outside shot and creates far more shots for his teammates while still turning it over less than Mayo. Heck, Mayo's scoring average in March is under 15 a game, which hurts when that's about all you bring to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Memphis would still be s*** without Mayo, I just don't know how much s***tier. The Bulls would be what Memphis is right now without D-Rose. I think Rose wins. You can't let the two point difference in points per game totally distort the fact that Rose is dishing out 3-4 more assists per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 03:17 PM) I strongly disagree, Rose has been virtually as productive offensively (especially outside of November when Mayo shot aburdly well) despite not having a strong outside shot and creates far more shots for his teammates while still turning it over less than Mayo. Heck, Mayo's scoring average in March is under 15 a game, which hurts when that's about all you bring to the table. That. QUOTE (chw42 @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 03:56 PM) Memphis would still be s*** without Mayo, I just don't know how much s***tier. The Bulls would be what Memphis is right now without D-Rose. I think Rose wins. You can't let the two point difference in points per game totally distort the fact that Rose is dishing out 3-4 more assists per game. And that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Am I out of line to say that I don't think Alonzo Mourning's number should be retired? Maybe it is the hatred I have for him in my subconsious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 TJ Ford is gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Another classic VDN give it to Gordon have him run around and chuck up a terrible shot play to end the game. Such incredible gameplanning. Heaven forbid we have a set play with 4 seconds left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 and the bulls fall flat in the end again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 09:23 PM) TJ Ford is gay. You would be right if the Ball is his penis and the hoop is a man's ... wait... I don't think I'm allowed to say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 09:25 PM) Another classic VDN give it to Gordon have him run around and chuck up a terrible shot play to end the game. Such incredible gameplanning. Heaven forbid we have a set play with 4 seconds left. maybe you should apply for the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxbrian Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 QUOTE (Brian @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 03:57 PM) Am I out of line to say that I don't think Alonzo Mourning's number should be retired? Maybe it is the hatred I have for him in my subconsious. I hate Alonzo Mourning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 06:27 PM) maybe you should apply for the job Saying that VDN is doing a crappy job does not imply that I personally could do better. However, I'll bet you i can come up with a list of people who could. Almost as if I already have that list sitting in my talkbulls sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 09:27 PM) maybe you should apply for the job I'm not a VDN hater, but come on, this is weak. It's like someone bashing Dewayne Wise and responding "well how many hits do you have in MLB?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (rangercal @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 08:27 PM) maybe you should apply for the job Classic response of somebody who is out of counter arguments. I love when a person resorts to this though, it's no different than waving the white flag. And after watching again tonight, maybe it indeed is better for them to miss the playoffs and make sure VDN is gone. For that matter, I hope Paxson's sorry ass resigns too, they are both a joke. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 12:06 PM) Looking at the plus minus stats for the Bulls, Hinrich is +181, Gordon is +59, and Rose is -96. The only guy who has a lower number than Rose on the Bulls is Tyrus who comes in at a horrible -132. Plus/minus in basketball is simply a stupid stat (and this isn't the first time I've said that). And for the record, if Rose sees his plus/minus move to +200 next year, I'll still say it's a stupid stat because it is. As for Tyrus and Noah improving this year, it's because they have received more minutes, that's all. And somebody mentioned a coach can't control defense in the NBA, but he made my point for me. The Bulls played defense for Skiles...when they listened to him. Everybody knows towards the end of Skiles time, the team tuned him out and the first sign of that was they stopped guarding. The first sign of a team not listening to their coach is lack of effort on defense, outside of a team like Los Angeles who screws around and only guards when they have to because they are that good or the rare team like Phoenix who just doesn't want to guard because of their system. Edited April 1, 2009 by whitesoxfan101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 08:27 PM) maybe you should apply for the job If you surround Steve with some experienced assistants then maybe he should.... I'm only half joking about this. Since it's basically what the VDN situation is. BTW, this team looks like it wants no part of the playoffs right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Maybe it wasn't a good counter, but it has as much merit as all of you the last couple pages. You guys sound like a bunch of whiny old men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 09:45 PM) Maybe it wasn't a good counter, but it has as much merit as all of you the last couple pages. You guys sound like a bunch of whiny old men. My main concern is that Paxson and VDN might be back next year. If they are both gone, I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 07:54 PM) My main concern is that Paxson and VDN might be back next year. If they are both gone, I'll be happy. I'm game for a Pax-related reprieve for now. Good deadline moves this year. Better if he can find a taker for Hinrich. VDN though...eek... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 10:54 PM) My main concern is that Paxson and VDN might be back next year. If they are both gone, I'll be happy. I was on the same boat for Pax before the trade deadline. I'm ok if they both stay here next year. If we were out the playoff race I would want VDN's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 10:55 PM) I'm game for a Pax-related reprieve for now. Good deadline moves this year. Better if he can find a taker for Hinrich. VDN though...eek... Very good points as usual. A Hinrich trade would have me pretty happy with the future of the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 10:01 PM) I was on the same boat for Pax before the trade deadline. I'm ok if they both stay here next year. If we were out the playoff race I would want VDN's head. Well I'm much more concerned with VDN being gone, if Paxson stays I won't be too upset as long as Hinrich is gone by the deadline next season. And the Bulls are 36-40 in the weaker of the NBA's conferences, which isn't enough to offset all of the incredibly dumb things I've seen VDN do this year, even if they sneak into the playoffs (which is no longer a sure thing after blowing 2 games they could have won the last 3 days). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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