Official 2008-2009 NBA Thread

[SoxAce]

Not all of his blocks come from help defense. A lot do, but not nearly the 80 or 90% you make them out to be. I'd probably say 55-60% do which is fine. A block is a block. No need to be picky about it. You also have to take into account the fact that since he has great blocking/jumping ability, he alters a lot of shots.

 

He gets steals as he has long arms and he's super athletic. With that said, it's easy for him to reach around a player and pick the ball or when he plays help defense or when he plays the passing lanes which he's able to do and not get burned frequently because of his ability to recover quickly(see: athleticism)

 

I agree, he should be outrebounding people, and maybe that's something he can improve upon in the offseason. His man defense is solid as well despite popular belief. When he struggles, it's with guys who can shoot. Like Bargnani flat out eats this guy alive because Tyrus always lets them take the jumper instead of bodying up.

 

He's far from a perfect player, and he's very very frustrating at times, but it's easy to see the upside and improvement that he has made.

 

I also find it funny that the very same people who claim defense is the uber important thing in a team and b**** about Gordon's defense, complain about one of our top 3 defenders and our best post defender whether you like to admit it or not.

 

Preach. I don't agree with your assessment on Derrick Rose most of the time (well damn near all the time) but mostly all in all... I do agree with ya.

[Steve9347]

I also find it funny that the very same people who claim defense is the uber important thing in a team and b**** about Gordon's defense, complain about one of our top 3 defenders and our best post defender whether you like to admit it or not.

But he's not a good defender. He gets blocks. He also takes stupid fouls and plays ole' defense way too much. Blocks do not = defense. See: Chris Kaman.

[SoxFan1]

Hmmm... let's see. I'll make this short..

 

 

 

Bulls***. A good majority, to basically most of his blocks do come from help side but not "all." You can't say every one of his blocks are from help D, because that's what I'm implying from what you said in "all." Hell he's got 3 f***ing videos on youtube alone on pages, on which he's going one on one and blocks the shot even if he gets beat to the basket. Jesus.

 

 

 

... Of course you don't.

 

 

 

Hmmm.. rebounding.. coulda sworn you actually had to jump most of the time to get those (what theyre gonna fall in your lap?) you also need strength also (hell Noah is pretty damn athletic himself, who also gets rebounds for tip-ins mostly, or you guessed it.. out jumping and out fighting the opposition.. unless its Dwight Howard who can "out jump" anyone) which both improved on their strength from, last season. Congrats Slav.. you beat your old record of B.S./hyperbole statements by just a touch this time.

OMG, take things uber literally why don't you. Ok, not ALL of his blocks come from help D, but MOST of them do. There, I'm still f***ing right.

 

Yes, I don't realize where Tyrus' steals come from, because I cannot honestly remember a single relevant steal Tyrus made all season, and I'd say I watched at least 3/4 of the games. It's not like he's shutting down his guy and not allowing him to do anything and just stripping the ball from him. Give me a f***ing break Gerry.

 

And I maintain that he's not a good rebounder because, well, he's not a good f***ing rebounder. And don't ever f***ing bring up Dwight Howard when talkign about Tyrus again. Dwight had like 2-3 inches and 50 pounds on Tyrus and could snap him the f*** in half. I realize that athleticism leads to a lot of rebounds, but if Tyrus is such a freak athlete, he should be able to rebound a f***ton better.

 

So don't give me your bs/hyperbole crap, because as much as I hate Tyrus, you slurp the guy twice as much.

 

Not all of his blocks come from help defense. A lot do, but not nearly the 80 or 90% you make them out to be. I'd probably say 55-60% do which is fine. A block is a block. No need to be picky about it. You also have to take into account the fact that since he has great blocking/jumping ability, he alters a lot of shots.

 

He gets steals as he has long arms and he's super athletic. With that said, it's easy for him to reach around a player and pick the ball or when he plays help defense or when he plays the passing lanes which he's able to do and not get burned frequently because of his ability to recover quickly(see: athleticism)

 

I agree, he should be outrebounding people, and maybe that's something he can improve upon in the offseason. His man defense is solid as well despite popular belief. When he struggles, it's with guys who can shoot. Like Bargnani flat out eats this guy alive because Tyrus always lets them take the jumper instead of bodying up.

 

He's far from a perfect player, and he's very very frustrating at times, but it's easy to see the upside and improvement that he has made.

 

I also find it funny that the very same people who claim defense is the uber important thing in a team and b**** about Gordon's defense, complain about one of our top 3 defenders and our best post defender whether you like to admit it or not.

In a legitimate, sincere statement, I'd argue that 75% of his block are on help D, no joke.

 

Like I've said, I'm not denying that Tyrus improved this past season, because he absolutely did. But he's still incredible mediocre, he's always going to have to prove himself because of the Aldridge trade, and all the retard fanboys who only see some sort of amazing potential make me hate him even more.

 

And again, you're top defender argument is SUPER flawed. We're a horrific defensive team. Being a top 3 defender on a terrible defending team means nothing. If anyone thinks that Tyrus is actually a really good defensive player, I'm going to disagree a whole hell of a lot.

[SoxAce]

hell Noah is pretty damn athletic himself, who also gets rebounds for tip-ins mostly, or you guessed it.. out jumping and out fighting the opposition.. unless its Dwight Howard who can "out jump" anyone

 

And don't ever f***ing bring up Dwight Howard when talkign about Tyrus again. Dwight had like 2-3 inches and 50 pounds on Tyrus and could snap him the f*** in half. I realize that athleticism leads to a lot of rebounds, but if Tyrus is such a freak athlete, he should be able to rebound a f***ton better.

 

Lol... Wow.. for the record that sentence I was talking about the center position of course.

 

I still love ya Slav, but I'm not gonna waste my breath (or fingers for that matter) Since he was drafted, You, Joe, Steve, etc.. know how I feel about my man crush. Kinda hard to let him go away. (it's kinda like you and Kirk Hinrich though you don't like to admit it) I gotta back him up. Hey if he absolutely blows donkey balls next season or two years from now, you bet I'll be the first to admit it. (or I'm sure all three of you will mention it first before I can even type a sentence ) Like I said earlier this fourth year is crucial for Tyrus. Barring any unforseen circumstances (ala traded this summer or something) he's got one.. maybe two more years to either continue progressing, or he's gone. Only thing ima say is.. I'm glad we have a real superstar (before anyone jumps the gun, I'm talking about Rose here) on the team now.

 

[nitetrain8601]

But he's not a good defender. He gets blocks. He also takes stupid fouls and plays ole' defense way too much. Blocks do not = defense. See: Chris Kaman.

 

He doesn't play ole' defense, but he does make some stupid fouls sometimes, I agree. Blocks don't equal defense, I agree. But blocks, sticking with your man, rotating out to help defend and steals are considered defense. Again, the main thing he struggles with are guys who can shoot because he'll allow them to take the jumper all day instead of manning that person up.

 

OMG, take things uber literally why don't you. Ok, not ALL of his blocks come from help D, but MOST of them do. There, I'm still f***ing right.

 

Yes, I don't realize where Tyrus' steals come from, because I cannot honestly remember a single relevant steal Tyrus made all season, and I'd say I watched at least 3/4 of the games. It's not like he's shutting down his guy and not allowing him to do anything and just stripping the ball from him. Give me a f***ing break Gerry.

 

And I maintain that he's not a good rebounder because, well, he's not a good f***ing rebounder. And don't ever f***ing bring up Dwight Howard when talkign about Tyrus again. Dwight had like 2-3 inches and 50 pounds on Tyrus and could snap him the f*** in half. I realize that athleticism leads to a lot of rebounds, but if Tyrus is such a freak athlete, he should be able to rebound a f***ton better.

 

So don't give me your bs/hyperbole crap, because as much as I hate Tyrus, you slurp the guy twice as much.

 

 

In a legitimate, sincere statement, I'd argue that 75% of his block are on help D, no joke.

 

Like I've said, I'm not denying that Tyrus improved this past season, because he absolutely did. But he's still incredible mediocre, he's always going to have to prove himself because of the Aldridge trade, and all the retard fanboys who only see some sort of amazing potential make me hate him even more.

 

And again, you're top defender argument is SUPER flawed. We're a horrific defensive team. Being a top 3 defender on a terrible defending team means nothing. If anyone thinks that Tyrus is actually a really good defensive player, I'm going to disagree a whole hell of a lot.

 

I'll say Tyrus should be able to rebound more, but for a guy who is completely relying on athletic ability and not technique nor strength, almost 10 rebounds per game is pretty damn good. If he could muscle up, it would help his technique in that he would be able to box out his defenders and therefore grab more rebounds. Now if he actually bulks up is a whole nother story as we saw guys like Deng or Tyrus never do it.

 

I'd still venture to say, 60% at most are blocks from help defense. Obviously, unless we find a stat online somewhere, there's no way to tell because I doubt either of us have every game saved to our DVR. Our DVR hard drive aint big enough.

 

One can argue we're a terrible defensive team because of our scheme. I think you're one of them, but I won't quote you on it. The thing is, say Tyrus really is a bad defender and it's not scheme. In that situation, Rose is 90X's worse than anyone imagined and that's solely on him. I look at a defense which switches every single time, even if the matchup states we should stay at home. I personally think it's a flaw in either VDN's system, or the players themselves who always switch. That's up for debate. If it's the scheme, then VDN, Ociepka and Bickerstaff who all handle the defense need to work out several kinks.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

I can live with that trade. For the people who can't, time to get over it.

 

I can live with the trade because Tyrus showed some major improvement this year IMO and I think his attitude now is a lot better than it was. But it was still an absolutely horrific trade, and that's reality. As for Tyrus' defense, I will say it was a lot better this year (as was everything else he did), but he still played below average defense (much better defense, but still below average) and took way too many goaltendings IMO.

 

As for the post (can't remember who it was) which said Derrick will never be a top 5 player because of his defense and jump shot, well he will never be one with his current defense and jump shot, but those are things that can be impoved. I think his jump shot this year was much better than his jump shot at Memphis, and I think he will continue to work hard and continue to improve on it. As for his defense, that's the #1 reason I want VDN gone, defense. Derrick, and everybody else on this team, will struggle to improve on defense as long as a coach who simply does not care about his team guarding is in charge. And you can't win a championship that way.

Edited May 6, 2009 by whitesoxfan101

[Steve9347]

I can live with the trade because Tyrus showed some major improvement this year IMO and I think his attitude now is a lot better than it was. But it was still an absolutely horrific trade, and that's reality. As for Tyrus' defense, I will say it was a lot better this year (as was everything else he did), but he still played below average defense (much better defense, but still below average) and took way too many goaltendings IMO.

 

As for the post (can't remember who it was) which said Derrick will never be a top 5 player because of his defense and jump shot, well he will never be one with his current defense and jump shot, but those are things that can be impoved. I think his jump shot this year was much better than his jump shot at Memphis, and I think he will continue to work hard and continue to improve on it. As for his defense, that's the #1 reason I want VDN gone, defense. Derrick, and everybody else on this team, will struggle to improve on defense as long as a coach who simply does not care about his team guarding is in charge. And you can't win a championship that way.

Look ma, a good post!

[SoxFan1]

Lol... Wow.. for the record that sentence I was talking about the center position of course.

 

I still love ya Slav, but I'm not gonna waste my breath (or fingers for that matter) Since he was drafted, You, Joe, Steve, etc.. know how I feel about my man crush. Kinda hard to let him go away. (it's kinda like you and Kirk Hinrich though you don't like to admit it) I gotta back him up. Hey if he absolutely blows donkey balls next season or two years from now, you bet I'll be the first to admit it. (or I'm sure all three of you will mention it first before I can even type a sentence ) Like I said earlier this fourth year is crucial for Tyrus. Barring any unforseen circumstances (ala traded this summer or something) he's got one.. maybe two more years to either continue progressing, or he's gone. Only thing ima say is.. I'm glad we have a real superstar (before anyone jumps the gun, I'm talking about Rose here) on the team now.

I've been over Hinrich for a while now. His downfall to an incredibly average player has stumped everyone. Yet, he's still a great defensive player, a good leader, can play and guard 2 positions, and has valuable experience. And he can also light it up once in a while.

 

He doesn't play ole' defense, but he does make some stupid fouls sometimes, I agree. Blocks don't equal defense, I agree. But blocks, sticking with your man, rotating out to help defend and steals are considered defense. Again, the main thing he struggles with are guys who can shoot because he'll allow them to take the jumper all day instead of manning that person up.

 

 

 

I'll say Tyrus should be able to rebound more, but for a guy who is completely relying on athletic ability and not technique nor strength, almost 10 rebounds per game is pretty damn good. If he could muscle up, it would help his technique in that he would be able to box out his defenders and therefore grab more rebounds. Now if he actually bulks up is a whole nother story as we saw guys like Deng or Tyrus never do it.

 

I'd still venture to say, 60% at most are blocks from help defense. Obviously, unless we find a stat online somewhere, there's no way to tell because I doubt either of us have every game saved to our DVR. Our DVR hard drive aint big enough.

 

One can argue we're a terrible defensive team because of our scheme. I think you're one of them, but I won't quote you on it. The thing is, say Tyrus really is a bad defender and it's not scheme. In that situation, Rose is 90X's worse than anyone imagined and that's solely on him. I look at a defense which switches every single time, even if the matchup states we should stay at home. I personally think it's a flaw in either VDN's system, or the players themselves who always switch. That's up for debate. If it's the scheme, then VDN, Ociepka and Bickerstaff who all handle the defense need to work out several kinks.

I think Tyrus' main issue is laziness and lack of hustle on the court. It pisses me off endlessly. The fact that guys like Big Bayby Davis beat him down the court is unacceptable. He just seems to not care sometimes and he definitely gets frustrated EXTREMELY easily. I can't remember who it was again, but there was a game a couple months ago that Tyrus went up for a dunk, got absolutely rejected and hit the deck HARD. He wanted a foul, but it was a super clean block. Then a possession or 2 later, he threw down a dunk on that player. And still pissed, a possession or 2 later, he tried to do it again only to get a ridiculous charge called on him. And on the other end, he fouled the player again.

 

And as far as our team defense, it's a mix of both. Our scheme is stupid. We play man defense and stress help defense, but our players are too dumb/lazy/slow/bad to rotate quick enough. And we're HORRIBLE at making adjustments in game. Glen Davis killed us all series, yet we still allowed him to take open jumper after open jumper. Defense is ENTIRELY about effort. It's as simple as that. We saw how good our team could be at times against Boston when the team REALLY wanted it and buckled down defensively. Stay on your toes, keep your feet moving, keep your hands out, and play with your feet, not your hands.

[nitetrain8601]

I can live with the trade because Tyrus showed some major improvement this year IMO and I think his attitude now is a lot better than it was. But it was still an absolutely horrific trade, and that's reality. As for Tyrus' defense, I will say it was a lot better this year (as was everything else he did), but he still played below average defense (much better defense, but still below average) and took way too many goaltendings IMO.

 

As for the post (can't remember who it was) which said Derrick will never be a top 5 player because of his defense and jump shot, well he will never be one with his current defense and jump shot, but those are things that can be impoved. I think his jump shot this year was much better than his jump shot at Memphis, and I think he will continue to work hard and continue to improve on it. As for his defense, that's the #1 reason I want VDN gone, defense. Derrick, and everybody else on this team, will struggle to improve on defense as long as a coach who simply does not care about his team guarding is in charge. And you can't win a championship that way.

 

Well that's what I meant. If Rose doesn't have a jumper, or rather the jumper he has now, along with his defense, he won't be sniffing top 15 player. The defense is an attitude thing. Again, it goes back to his coasting.

 

And Tyrus and Deng seemed to have improved on defense this year with VDN. It's a matter of scheme and players. VDN cares about defense which is why he doesn't run a true SSOL offense. So his guys could get back and guard up.

[SoxFan1]

FOUND IT! It was Anthony Randolph of the Warriors...

[nitetrain8601]

I've been over Hinrich for a while now. His downfall to an incredibly average player has stumped everyone. Yet, he's still a great defensive player, a good leader, can play and guard 2 positions, and has valuable experience. And he can also light it up once in a while.

 

 

I think Tyrus' main issue is laziness and lack of hustle on the court. It pisses me off endlessly. The fact that guys like Big Bayby Davis beat him down the court is unacceptable. He just seems to not care sometimes and he definitely gets frustrated EXTREMELY easily. I can't remember who it was again, but there was a game a couple months ago that Tyrus went up for a dunk, got absolutely rejected and hit the deck HARD. He wanted a foul, but it was a super clean block. Then a possession or 2 later, he threw down a dunk on that player. And still pissed, a possession or 2 later, he tried to do it again only to get a ridiculous charge called on him. And on the other end, he fouled the player again.

 

And as far as our team defense, it's a mix of both. Our scheme is stupid. We play man defense and stress help defense, but our players are too dumb/lazy/slow/bad to rotate quick enough. And we're HORRIBLE at making adjustments in game. Glen Davis killed us all series, yet we still allowed him to take open jumper after open jumper. Defense is ENTIRELY about effort. It's as simple as that. We saw how good our team could be at times against Boston when the team REALLY wanted it and buckled down defensively. Stay on your toes, keep your feet moving, keep your hands out, and play with your feet, not your hands.

 

Agreed. No doubt he has heart, but I think he lets others get the best of him in his head.

 

Definitely agreed about the defensive aspect.

 

[SoxFan1]

Agreed. No doubt he has heart, but I think he lets others get the best of him in his head.

 

Definitely agreed about the defensive aspect.

Its something that bothers me about the NBA. Players are too f***ing lazy/selfish. Thats why I respect the s*** out of Ron Artest so much. He doesn't take plays off on defense. He works his ASS off. It's entirely effort. Norm van Lier wasn't making s*** up with the 48 minutes of intensity. It's true. if you try hard, you will succeed. I absolutely LOVE watching Artest play defense, because its pure effort. Of course you'll get tired quicker, but if you want to win, you'll work.

[Steve9347]

FOUND IT! It was Anthony Randolph of the Warriors...

Good old SlavkoSrbija defending Tyrus on YouTube...

[SoxFan1]

Good old SlavkoSrbija defending Tyrus on YouTube...

Blame it on the stupid Warriors fans.

[rangercal]

[Steve9347]

That is f***ing hilarious!

[DBAHO]

Pathetic performance tonight from the Magic allowing Eddie House to go off like that.

 

Sounds like we'll have Lee back for game 3 though, but I'm worried that we've played 6 real bad quarters in a row now.

[T R U]

Pathetic performance tonight from the Magic allowing Eddie House to go off like that.

 

Sounds like we'll have Lee back for game 3 though, but I'm worried that we've played 6 real bad quarters in a row now.

 

At least its headed to Orlando now

[DBAHO]

At least its headed to Orlando now

Ya which is something I guess.

 

The worrying thing is that Pierce and Allen have hardly played well so far. And Alston can't let Rondo do what he did tonight.

 

I think the Celtics will nick a game out of the next 2.

[rangercal]

Ya which is something I guess.

 

The worrying thing is that Pierce and Allen have hardly played well so far. And Alston can't let Rondo do what he did tonight.

 

I think the Celtics will nick a game out of the next 2.

 

Alston will probably be missing the next game.

[rangercal]

Derek Fisher may miss some time too

[Ron]

That was a cheap shot by D-Fish. Some real chippy play out there by the Lake Show.

 

Wow, and the Ron Artest loses his damn mind in the 4th. So much for Ron-Ron cleaning up his rep.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2009 by Ron

[Palehosefan]

Man, the Lakers are a bunch of little b****es. I would LOVE to see Sciola and Artest beat Fischer and Kobe's ass.

[Palehosefan]

That was a cheap shot by D-Fish. Some real chippy play out there by the Lake Show.

 

Wow, and the Ron Artest loses his damn mind in the 4th. So much for Ron-Ron cleaning up his rep.

 

I guess you missed the elbow to Artest's throat by Kobe, the subsequent foul call on Artest, and Kobe being a little b**** after.

[Ron]

I guess you missed the elbow to Artest's throat by Kobe, the subsequent foul call on Artest, and Kobe being a little b**** after.

Saw it on the replay. That still doesn't justify him running up to Kobe talking wild in full sight of the refs and then when being pulled away, make that sweeping gesture near his throat, which of course the refs are gonna think is a "throat slash", which is what got him ejected. With his rep, on the road, he needed to keep his cool in that situation. The game is close, still winnable. He hurt no one but his team.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Ron