Official 2008-2009 NBA Thread

[lostfan]

The likelihood of Brand joining the team is high? What does that mean?

[DBAHO]

The Bulls should take Rose.

 

Look at the impact CP3 and Deron Williams have had on New Orleans and Utah respectively.

 

Beasley will become a very good player, but will he make his whole team better, as much as Rose?

 

What to do with Kirk Hinrich then? My guess is, the Bulls will try to trade him, to a team such as the Knicks, Bucks or my best bet the Los Angeles Clippers, for an expiring contract and maybe a 1st.

 

Does Rose make the Bulls better? Absolutely? They'll be a playoff team next season, especially if they hire Tom Thibodeau as coach, who I'm a big fan of.

 

But I don't think they're a top 4 team. They're not better than Boston or Detroit, Orlando has a better offensive team and Dwight Howard in the middle, and Cleveland can use their expiring contracts to go put a star player next to LeBron.

 

The Bulls also need more size IMHO. If they could somehow get a top 6-7 pick by trading either Hinrich or Gordon, use that on Lopez if he's there, and they'll be a better team for it.

[jackie hayes]

The Bulls should take Rose.

 

Look at the impact CP3 and Deron Williams have had on New Orleans and Utah respectively.

 

Beasley will become a very good player, but will he make his whole team better, as much as Rose?

 

What to do with Kirk Hinrich then? My guess is, the Bulls will try to trade him, to a team such as the Knicks, Bucks or my best bet the Los Angeles Clippers, for an expiring contract and maybe a 1st.

 

Does Rose make the Bulls better? Absolutely? They'll be a playoff team next season, especially if they hire Tom Thibodeau as coach, who I'm a big fan of.

 

But I don't think they're a top 4 team. They're not better than Boston or Detroit, Orlando has a better offensive team and Dwight Howard in the middle, and Cleveland can use their expiring contracts to go put a star player next to LeBron.

 

The Bulls also need more size IMHO. If they could somehow get a top 6-7 pick by trading either Hinrich or Gordon, use that on Lopez if he's there, and they'll be a better team for it.

I'm not disagreeing, but what you said doesn't really address the big thing everyone's worried about with Rose. The Hornets don't just have Paul, they have Paul and West. The Jazz don't just have Williams, they have Williams and Boozer. Why is the Paul/Williams side more important than the West/Boozer side?

 

Again, I'm split on this. But I do think it's a legit question.

[rangercal]

If Brand is going to cost a Boat Load I would rather keep Gooden and go after someone like Carmelo. Going after Carmelo over Brand is a f***ing no brainer to me.

[rangercal]

The likelihood of Brand joining the team is high? What does that mean?

I hope it means it won't happen. He is injury riddled and his top #'s are not all that much better than what Gooden can do.

[DBAHO]

I'm not disagreeing, but what you said doesn't really address the big thing everyone's worried about with Rose. The Hornets don't just have Paul, they have Paul and West. The Jazz don't just have Williams, they have Williams and Boozer. Why is the Paul/Williams side more important than the West/Boozer side?

 

Again, I'm split on this. But I do think it's a legit question.

Probably because of the system both teams play in.

 

CP3 has more creativity to do what he wants, and David West is basically an excellent jump shooter playing at PF. Without CP3, he just would not be as good. He's so good at the pick and roll, Paul, that so many times he'll either lob it to Chandler, take a little floater, or kick it back out to West from 18 feet out.

 

Williams makes Boozer a better player also.

 

The thing is, Boozer and West can't create their own shots. Williams and Paul do it for them.

 

A good PG makes everyone around you better.

 

Do you think Atlanta wishes they took Paul or Williams, instead of Marvin Williams right now?

[DBAHO]

The Bulls would have to give up Deng and Thomas at least (probably more) if they wanted Melo also.

 

How do people feel about David Lee and the 6th for Tyrus Thomas FWIW?

[rangercal]

Probably because of the system both teams play in.

 

CP3 has more creativity to do what he wants, and David West is basically an excellent jump shooter playing at PF. Without CP3, he just would not be as good. He's so good at the pick and roll, Paul, that so many times he'll either lob it to Chandler, take a little floater, or kick it back out to West from 18 feet out.

 

Williams makes Boozer a better player also.

 

The thing is, Boozer and West can't create their own shots. Williams and Paul do it for them.

 

A good PG makes everyone around you better.

 

Do you think Atlanta wishes they took Paul or Williams, instead of Marvin Williams right now?

On the other side of the token, do you think Orlando regrets taking Howard over Shawn Livingston? If Rose is a Bust and Beasley is a 10x all star, it throws all this cp3 and deron williams talk out the window.

 

 

But, for the record, I would go with Rose.

 

Just saying you can't really compare what other teams do. I'm sure the hornets did not expect Cp3 to play like Isiah at the same time the Hawks likely had higher expectations for Marvin Williams.

[rangercal]

The Bulls would have to give up Deng and Thomas at least (probably more) if they wanted Melo also.

 

How do people feel about David Lee and the 6th for Tyrus Thomas FWIW?

Deng, Thomas would not be a problem for me to obtain Carmelo. Hell, if the salaries matched, I would add Hinrich and Gordon or Thabo and any future assets. Deng and Gordon can't be traded until after the draft though.

 

Lee and the 6th for Tyrus? I think that package is worth the Price of Thomas. It's just depth is not a problem on the Bulls. They need to trim the roster. With that move you add another body. The bulls should pursue 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 deals in an effort to obtain stars if not borderline superstars.

[DBAHO]

Just on your posts ranger;

 

1 - Rose is rated a better prospect than CP3 and Williams coming out of college. Livingstone came straight out of HS, and only because of the knee injury, he's not going to be as good as his potential unfortunately. He's a more explosive version of Williams you could argue, and because of his size, he should be a dominating PG at the NBA level.

 

2 - Marvin Williams was always going to take time, but it shows the risk at taking players who aren't ready to contribute straight away.

 

3 - Deng, Hinrich and Thomas would probably be the deal for Melo. Sign and trade with Gordon for something, and you've got a lineup of Rose, Hughes, Melo, Gooden and Noah which looks pretty good.

 

4 - I think the Bulls would draft a big with the 6th, and that alone would be more valuable than Thomas, for the Bulls' needs, but that's JMHO. Getting Lee, who's an active hustle guy off the bench, only sweetens the deal, and the Bulls can always do with another big.

[jackie hayes]

Probably because of the system both teams play in.

 

CP3 has more creativity to do what he wants, and David West is basically an excellent jump shooter playing at PF. Without CP3, he just would not be as good. He's so good at the pick and roll, Paul, that so many times he'll either lob it to Chandler, take a little floater, or kick it back out to West from 18 feet out.

 

Williams makes Boozer a better player also.

 

The thing is, Boozer and West can't create their own shots. Williams and Paul do it for them.

 

A good PG makes everyone around you better.

 

Do you think Atlanta wishes they took Paul or Williams, instead of Marvin Williams right now?

Come on... Marvin Williams is not a fair comparison, at all.

 

I don't think it's fair to call West merely a jump shooter, either. Both he and Boozer are a force on the glass, and Beasley will be, as well.

 

I know that a good pg will make everyone around him better, but he won't turn Tyrus into West. That type of player is something that the Bulls have been sorely in need of for a long time, and this is easily our best opportunity to get one.

 

I'm still torn on this. But I'm sceptical about 'comparison' logic (good pg worked out best for other teams, so we should do it too). IF Beasley is the better player (I'm not saying he is, just if), I'd hope we take him and look for a pg via trade. But maybe my Calderon mancrush is blinding me.

[jackie hayes]

On the other side of the token, do you think Orlando regrets taking Howard over Shawn Livingston? If Rose is a Bust and Beasley is a 10x all star, it throws all this cp3 and deron williams talk out the window.

 

 

But, for the record, I would go with Rose.

 

Just saying you can't really compare what other teams do. I'm sure the hornets did not expect Cp3 to play like Isiah at the same time the Hawks likely had higher expectations for Marvin Williams.

Agreed.

[Steve9347]

Deng, Thomas would not be a problem for me to obtain Carmelo.

Agreed.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Steve9347

[rangercal]

so yeah...

 

link

 

 

• Paxson told ESPN Radio on Wednesday that he would be open to trade offers for the No. 1 pick. Within hours we had our first rumor. The Blazers were willing to send LaMarcus Aldridge to the Bulls for the chance to draft Rose.

 

Ummm … not so fast. I contacted a source inside the Blazers. They haven't made an offer, and while certainly interested in finding a way to get the No. 1 pick, don't sound inclined to give up Aldridge.

 

Still, the deal would've been interesting. Aldridge would be a good fit on the Bulls. But the irony of the whole thing would be thick. The Bulls traded the draft rights to Aldridge to the Blazers for the draft rights of Tyrus Thomas. Trading back for Aldridge would be tantamount to admitting they made the wrong choice two years ago.

 

Expect other trade offers to flood into Chicago over the next few weeks. There is a lot of interest in Rose and Paxson might be able to get multiple pieces if he's willing to give up the pick.

 

 

Though Aldridge is a very good player, I will cry if that happened.

Edited May 22, 2008 by rangercal

[Dick Allen]

Sam Smith who is in with JR said there is no doubt the Bulls will draft Rose and trade for a post player. Perhaps Jermaine O'neil if he is healthy enough. He also mentioned the possibilty of Marion with Hinrich being the bait.

[HuskyCaucasian]

He also mentioned the possibilty of Marion with Hinrich being the bait.

Rose - Gordon - Deng - Shawn Marion - Noah

:pray

[rangercal]

Rose - Gordon - Deng - Shawn Marion - Noah

 

I wonder what else it would take to land him? I mean it could not be hinrich alone, could it? I would think it would also take Tyrus.

[Harry Chappas]

I heard Marion and the #2 for the #1 basically Marion and Beasly for Rose. The Heat love Rose and are not high on Beasley.

 

I think Rose defense is the difference in the two as he can guard on the perimieter.

 

I think this is make or break on Pax. He needs to move some bodies and be creative. There is no reason why with the pieces they have in place that they should not compete for the east title next year

 

Heinrich off the bench for Hughes and Rose is the back court they need with Thabo playing good defense and filling in.

 

The Gooden and Hughes trade could be a steal as Rose could make both players better. Heinrich not having to handle the ball is a more consistent 2 guard as oppossed to Gordon (I think Ben Gordon is so one deminsional and absolutely horrible at handling the ball and defense he cna shoot and he is streaky at that).

 

Deng / Noc hat the SF

 

Gooden/Thomas/Noah down low.

 

Those are the only 9 guys they need

[daa84]

Rose is a freak athlete but i have reservations about him that nobody else on this board seems to have....frankly it bothers me that everyone is so willing to just accept that if we draft rose, we are getting a player in the williams or paul mode....let me first say that derrick rose (at least right now) is nowhere near the shooter deron williams is, not even close....chris paul is also a once in a generation type player with just an uncanny ability to manage the floor. Now maybe Rose will also have that type of impact, the odds are that he will be a very good player. But just because he plays the same position as those other two guys, dont assume Rose is that type of player. I am willing to accept comparisons more to Dwayne Wade than those other two, because that is much closer to Rose's skill set at least, but even a comparison to Wade is unfair. Maybe I just hate comparison, but i also feel like people are slighting beasley when it comes to comparisons. I mean why is nobody playing the overboard comparison game with Beasley? He could be the next Carmelo, or maybe Pippen if we are gonna assume that he hits his aboslutel potential like we are with rose.

 

That said I absolutely love Rose and am in no way blasting him. I just think we jump to conclusions because 1.) two other young PGs have been very successful (which isnt fair to Rose, and has no bearing on the player Rose will be) and 2.) because he is from chicago

 

 

also if memphis lost earlier in the tourney like kstate and not in the championship are we talking as much about rose? I dont think we are

Edited May 22, 2008 by daa84

[jackie hayes]

Here's the Sam Smith column, for those interested. Only partially about the Bulls:

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=414160

[lostfan]

I remember watching Gordon defend Barbosa, he was getting RAPED the entire game. Sure he would hit those 3's, half the time he did, on the very next possession you would see him caught out of position yet again, and trying to dive back to contest a wide open shot.

 

Gordon is the only Bull capable of putting up 30 or even 40 on any given night, but he is a complete liability on defense. Maybe they could adopt AL rules and make him the designated shooter or something.

[rangercal]

 

let me first say that derrick rose (at least right now) is nowhere near the shooter deron williams is, not even close

Where did you come up with this conclusion?

 

Deron Williams 04-05 fg% 43.3 3pt% 35.4 (his last season with Illini)

Derrick Rose 07-08 fg% 47.7 3pt% 33.7

Deron Williams 07-08 fg% 50.7 3pt% 39.5%

 

Seems to me that Rose had better overall shooting stats as a freshman then Deron had as a Junior. At 19 , I can see Rose making the same shooting improvements that Deron made by his 3rd full season.

 

 

chris paul is also a once in a generation type player with just an uncanny ability to manage the floor.

 

So this means that Rose can not be the 2nd? Why not? Because Paul beat him to it? Magic and Isiah played at the same time.

 

 

 

I don't think it's fair to compare Rose to Deron or cp3, at the same time, I don't think it's fair to assume he can't match or pass their play in the NBA.

Edited May 22, 2008 by rangercal

[daa84]

Where did you come up with this conclusion?

 

Deron Williams 04-05 fg% 43.3 3pt% 35.4 (his last season with Illini)

Derrick Rose 07-08 fg% 47.7 3pt% 33.7

Deron Williams 07-08 fg% 50.7 3pt% 39.5%

 

Seems to me that Rose had better overall shooting stats as a freshman then Deron had as a Junior. At 19 , I can see Rose making the same shooting improvements that Deron made by his 3rd full season.

 

 

 

 

So this means that Rose can not be the 2nd? Why not? Because Paul beat him to it? Magic and Isiah played at the same time.

 

 

 

I don't think it's fair to compare Rose to Deron or cp3, at the same time, I don't think it's fair to assume he can't match or pass their play in the NBA.

I also went by FT shooting to compare rose and williams (but i will admit i didnt pull up derons stats from his sr year, which i probably should have). But you are right it is an area rose can improve on. Certainly Rose has the potential and athletic ability to be as good or maybe better than Paul, but my point is that people on this board (and on sports talk radio) are jumping to the conclusion that he automatically will be. it just seems to me people are saying if we draft rose we get a guy like CP3 or Williams, which while it may come true, isnt nearly the guarantee people are making it out to be. Same thing for Beasley, both are far from being a guarantee at being the top player at their position in the NBA, but it just seems to me that people so eagerly want to throw Rose into that class, when it doesnt seem prudent IMO (at least at this point), and are also much more reluctant to give comparisons for a guy who average 26.5 and 12.4 in college

 

 

I dont want to give the wrong impression. I am not saying that I in any way dislike Rose or think hes a bad player. In fact, I may want the Bulls to still take him #1. I keep going back and forth on the two. I am just pointing out that I think alot of poeple are looking at this poorly and jumping too eagerly to conclusions specifically about Rose

Edited May 22, 2008 by daa84

[Steve9347]

I hope it means it won't happen. He is injury riddled and his top #'s are not all that much better than what Gooden can do.

Wow, quite the Gooden believer eh?

 

That's the most incorrect statement I have ever read... sorry brother!

[ZoomSlowik]

Wow, quite the Gooden believer eh?

 

That's the most incorrect statement I have ever read... sorry brother!

 

Seriously, that's way off base. Even on one leg at the end of the year Brand put up numbers that Gooden can't even touch. His "injured" line towards the end was 18-8 with 2 blocks, when healthy he puts up 20-10 with ease. I don't know how you can call him "injury riddled" either considering he had missed 6 games total in the previous 3 seasons.