Official 2008-2009 NBA Thread

[Steve9347]

The Heat wouldn't trade Beasley.

Oh, they would trade Beasley if it netted what they need.

[Steve9347]

Give me a f***ing break. If I wanted to talk with 14 year old nerds about the NBA, then I'd post at RealGM. Sorry, I don't make up fantasy trades and envision a team full of Tyrus Thomas clones.

 

I don't need defensive PER to see that Ben Gordon can't play defense. The entire Bulls team can't play defense. He's top 3 on a s***ty defensive team, awesome. Let's give him a f***ing award. No matter what you choose to see, he still can't get around a f***ing screen to save his life. Maybe you should keep posting about the NBA at RealGm because obviously my eyes are deceiving me and I'm just making uninformed statements.

 

BG4DPOY!!!!111!1!one Saying his defense is outstanding is not only a travesty, but an insult to players in NBA and throughout NBA history who have actually played outstanding defense and actually give a s*** about their teams.

PER is quickly becoming something that should be ignored more than not. When Derrick Rose doesn't have the highest PER on our team, that's when I stop paying attention.

[DBAHO]

PER is quickly becoming something that should be ignored more than not. When Derrick Rose doesn't have the highest PER on our team, that's when I stop paying attention.

Jameer Nelson has a higher PER than Derrick Rose this season.

[DBAHO]

Just posting about a trade I thought of.

 

Heat trade: Marion, Beasley, Chalmers, DQ cook

Bobcats trade: Okafor, Wallace, Felton

 

 

Matches up financially. Okafor would have to ok the trade.

 

Heat would get a starting 5 of Felton, Wade, Wallace, Haslem, Okafor to compete for the East immediately.

 

Bobcats would get younger potential starters at 3 positions and a huge expiring salary of Marion.

 

Am I shorting one team?

Considering Brown is desperate for another big man, and he loves his shot blocking centers, I can't see the Cats dealing Okafor.

 

Wallace and Felton are definitely on the table.

 

I think Eddy Curry will still end up a Bobcat when it's all said and done.

[Steve9347]

Jameer Nelson has a higher PER than Derrick Rose this season.

Nelson's having a good season, but PER doesn't really matter much to me anymore. All one needs to see is that Ilgauskas has a higher PER than Kevin Garnett to realize how flawed the system is, then you take a gander and see names like Oden, Morrow, Hickson, and Speights above Derrick Rose.

[ZoomSlowik]

PER can definitely be mis-leading in small sample sizes (as in less than a full season, even then it can be a little off), one category can grossly tilt the rating one way or the other. Just look at the vaunted Gordon defensive PER, he's still allowing opposing SG's to score 19.7 point/48 minutes on 16.8 attempts, a total that's comparable to that of Thomas (20.4 at PF) and Noah (20.3), two guys that are allowing very high PER's and contribute to the Bulls having arguably the worst frontcourt in the league. The Bulls are simply a bad all-around defensive team, that's why they're allowing almost 103 points per game.

Edited December 22, 2008 by ZoomSlowik

[whitesoxfan101]

In-depth statistical analysis is something that you have to be careful with for the most part. It's very useful and for the most part accurate in baseball, but that's because baseball is a game played at the same pace no matter what teams are playing. Obviously some pitches work faster and slower then others, and some ballparks have bigger and smaller dimensions than others, but in baseball, the ball is pitched, the hitter sees it, he swings or he doesn't, and everything is set into motion no matter who is playing and who is on base. Basketball games are played at completely different paces, players guard different types of players and play different specific amounts of minutes every night, and there are just so many elements that make in depth statistical analysis like PER quite deceiving, especially this early in the season. Also hard to go really in depth statswise and learn much about football when playing surfaces, games in/outdoors, conditions, time of posession, turnovers, the fact the season is only 16 games, and so on are all relevant factors. However, on the other side of things, as much as that all is true, in depth statistical analysis is needed most for baseball because of all the specific LITTLE things that happen in baseball that don't neccesarily happen in other sports.

Edited December 22, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[nitetrain8601]

Give me a f***ing break. If I wanted to talk with 14 year old nerds about the NBA, then I'd post at RealGM. Sorry, I don't make up fantasy trades and envision a team full of Tyrus Thomas clones.

 

I don't need defensive PER to see that Ben Gordon can't play defense. The entire Bulls team can't play defense. He's top 3 on a s***ty defensive team, awesome. Let's give him a f***ing award. No matter what you choose to see, he still can't get around a f***ing screen to save his life. Maybe you should keep posting about the NBA at RealGm because obviously my eyes are deceiving me and I'm just making uninformed statements.

 

BG4DPOY!!!!111!1!one Saying his defense is outstanding is not only a travesty, but an insult to players in NBA and throughout NBA history who have actually played outstanding defense and actually give a s*** about their teams.

 

Funny considering how NBA players themselves post there and executives view RealGM. In fact, aren't you still a teenager.

 

I digress, but you should still get those eyes checked. He's playing great defense this year. His first year he sucked. Second year, he sucked with a few improvements. Third year he was mediocre, 5th year became average and this year he has become above average.

[SoxFan1]

Funny considering how NBA players themselves post there and executives view RealGM. In fact, aren't you still a teenager.

 

I digress, but you should still get those eyes checked. He's playing great defense this year. His first year he sucked. Second year, he sucked with a few improvements. Third year he was mediocre, 5th year became average and this year he has become above average.

You're wrong. That's really all I have to say.

[ZoomSlowik]

Funny considering how NBA players themselves post there and executives view RealGM. In fact, aren't you still a teenager.

 

I digress, but you should still get those eyes checked. He's playing great defense this year. His first year he sucked. Second year, he sucked with a few improvements. Third year he was mediocre, 5th year became average and this year he has become above average.

 

Um, no, he was not average at all last year, in fact his previous several years were better statistically (so were the whole team's, possibly because they had credible defensive big men to back them up). Last year he allowed 23.1 points per 48 minutes at a 19.2 PER at SG, and a 19.7 PER while lining up as a PG. That's pretty bad. If you're going to use suspect statistics to back up your point, at least stay consistent in their use or check them if you're going to continue the argument.

[Steve9347]

I could score on Ben Gordon.

[lostfan]

Funny considering how NBA players themselves post there and executives view RealGM. In fact, aren't you still a teenager.

 

I digress, but you should still get those eyes checked. He's playing great defense this year. His first year he sucked. Second year, he sucked with a few improvements. Third year he was mediocre, 5th year became average and this year he has become above average.

Do you think Ben Gordon is better than Derrick Rose?

[RockRaines]

Ben has certainly improved upon his arms wide open Ole defensive technique he used to use, but I would say he was a "good" defender, he is probably near average now.

[Steve9347]

Ben has certainly improved upon his arms wide open Ole defensive technique he used to use, but I would say he was a "good" defender, he is probably near average now.

Seems to still be using it just fine.

 

 

[SoxFan1]

Seems to still be using it just fine.

 

 

That's not the ole technique, thats his turn stile technique.

[RockRaines]

That's not the ole technique, thats his turn stile technique.

I mostly like when he manned up and his arms were just spread wide like an eagle.

 

He has it going here.

 

Edited December 22, 2008 by RockRaines

[fathom]

BTW, that noise you hear is Lawal's draft stock crashing. Since that Penn State game, he's been horrific. Taj Gibson has dominated him tonight.

[Steve9347]

BTW, that noise you hear is Lawal's draft stock crashing. Since that Penn State game, he's been horrific. Taj Gibson has dominated him tonight.

Works for me. All the better to get him later.

[Kyyle23]

It would be slightly funny to have a Luol and a Lawal on the same team

[fathom]

Works for me. All the better to get him later.

 

Why does he interest many of you on here, as he's a less skilled version of Tyrus Thomas?

[ZoomSlowik]

Why does he interest many of you on here, as he's a less skilled version of Tyrus Thomas?

 

That's not possible, Tyrus would actually have to have some skills for that to be true. Lawal is still a work in progress, but he at least actually has some touch around the basket, something Tyrus has yet to display. I wouldn't take him in the top-5, but after that this draft isn't exactly deep on superior options. I wouldn't complain about any of Jordan Hill, Greg Monroe, or Lawal.

Edited December 23, 2008 by ZoomSlowik

[lostfan]

It would be slightly funny to have a Luol and a Lawal on the same team

It would be pretty lawl, actually.

[fathom]

That's not possible, Tyrus would actually have to have some skills for that to be true. Lawal is still a work in progress, but he at least actually has some touch around the basket, something Tyrus has yet to display. I wouldn't take him in the top-5, but after that this draft isn't exactly deep on superior options. I wouldn't complain about any of Jordan Hill, Greg Monroe, or Lawal.

 

I think too many people are basing their opinion on Lawal after seeing him face a Penn State team with pathetic interior defense. Lawal has looked miserable against decent post players like Taj, Ogilvy, and VandenMeer. As a GT fan, I'm pleased with Lawal's development this year. However, he's still a very raw post player with terrible ball handling skills and bad interior defense. At least with Tyrus, you had a world-class leaper with great shot blocking ability and decent form on his jump shot. Lawal is one of the weaker FT shooters I've seen at a big time level.

[fathom]

That's not possible, Tyrus would actually have to have some skills for that to be true. Lawal is still a work in progress, but he at least actually has some touch around the basket, something Tyrus has yet to display. I wouldn't take him in the top-5, but after that this draft isn't exactly deep on superior options. I wouldn't complain about any of Jordan Hill, Greg Monroe, or Lawal.

 

Jordan Hill is so much better in every aspect of the game than Lawal right now.

[ZoomSlowik]

I have yet to see Hill play this season (that'll change tonight thanks to the regional sports networks we get), though on paper he looks amazing. I wasn't overly impressed when I saw him early last season, but it looks like he's gotten a lot better.

 

Yes, a large part of the reason I want Lawal is his ridiculous early stats and what I saw him do against PSU. I realize he's not going to be THAT good against real teams, but it was still encouraging to see a guy with his athleticism and length dropping in numerous baby hooks and a couple of turnaround jumpers (yes, I realize his stroke is generally a disaster), especially in his first year as a go-to guy inside. Now if he's still struggling that much against real big men in late February/March that's another story, but for now I'm fairly intrigued. The fact that the Bulls appear to be in position to be a late lottery/mid-first round team also plays a major factor, it'll probably be tough to find guys with higher upside and/or the probability of good early production at that spot.