Official 2008-2009 NBA Thread

[rangercal]

I'm assuming you were looking at hoopshype just like me. You have to figure out what is actually counted in the yearly totals when you're doing the cap math, it doesn't automatically count the team options (though I think it does for player options). The $27 mil only counts the multi-year contracts of Deng, Hinrich and Nocioni, it doesn't count the $5.55 mil "option" for Rose, the $3.2 mil option for Noah, or the qualifying offers for Tyrus, Thabo and Simmons ($6.23 mil for Tyrus, $3.86 for Thabo and $3.74 for Simmons). I'd hope that they just out-right Simmons at that price, but I have a hard time seeing them do the first two given our history with core players.

 

Yeah, I just caught that too with the 27 Mil. We are still in a decent position for 2010. The salary cap should be at about 60 Million. we may not have 50 Million to spend like NY or Det (but how much do you really need for 1 major signing) . If we deal Noc and/or Kirk, it puts us in position for a 2010 run especially if we let Gordon walk. I still think we can re-sign Gordon (it would have to be no more than 10 mil per) and make a run. If we can't deal Noc or Kirk for cap space, then we should just let Ben walk.

[DBAHO]

Alonzo Mourning retired. I always feel really sad when players are retiring that I remember watching when I was younger. As a matter of fact, I still have a Hornets poster of him in my room, it hasn't left its spot in probably 12 years, haha.

Yeah him and Larry Johnson were 2 of my favorite players back in the day. Sad to see him finally retire, but he probably should have done it sooner.

[DBAHO]

Yeah, I just caught that too with the 27 Mil. We are still in a decent position for 2010. The salary cap should be at about 60 Million. we may not have 50 Million to spend like NY or Det (but how much do you really need for 1 major signing) . If we deal Noc and/or Kirk, it puts us in position for a 2010 run especially if we let Gordon walk. I still think we can re-sign Gordon (it would have to be no more than 10 mil per) and make a run. If we can't deal Noc or Kirk for cap space, then we should just let Ben walk.

Hinrich I can see being dealt for a 2010 ending contract, if that's what the Bulls want to do.

 

They could probably offer Hinrich and Gooden for Brad Miller right now, and get a deal done.

 

I can't see you dealine Nocioni for a 2010 ending deal though. He plays too much as it is, is overpaid, and has a bad reputation around the league. I think you're stuck with him until his deal finishes.

 

In all of this, let me say that of course people will want to play with Derrick Rose, the kid's a stud.

 

But compare it to New York. They've got a coach with proven success (albeit not playoffs), who incorporates a system that probably 99% of players in the NBA would love to use. They play in the biggest market and in the most famous arena in the world. If I'm Amare Stoudemire and I had a choice b/w New York and Chicago, I'm going with the Knicks because I've done well under D'Antoni, and I would be marketed like crazy in New York.

[ZoomSlowik]

Yeah, I just caught that too with the 27 Mil. We are still in a decent position for 2010. The salary cap should be at about 60 Million. we may not have 50 Million to spend like NY or Det (but how much do you really need for 1 major signing) . If we deal Noc and/or Kirk, it puts us in position for a 2010 run especially if we let Gordon walk. I still think we can re-sign Gordon (it would have to be no more than 10 mil per) and make a run. If we can't deal Noc or Kirk for cap space, then we should just let Ben walk.

 

You need 18-20 mil for a max signing depending on where the max salaries end up (I'm not entirely sure how to figure that out. I know the max overall offer is 5-105, but I don't know how cheap you can make the first year to make it fit). They'd have to REALLY clean house to be able to afford both Gordon and a max player. Deng, Rose, Gordon and a max player alone is about $45 mil (assuming 10 mil for Gordon and 18 for the max player), two first round picks the next two years is about another $4 mil. That means you can only have another $10-13 mil in salary and/or cap holds on the roster at the time of the max signing, which means at most one of Hinrich, Nocioni and Thomas. I really doubt that this organization would strip down the roster to that point, they'd really have to scramble to fill in the other 7-9 roster spots on the cheap (15 player rosters, 12 active, right)?

 

It's definitely feasible that they can have enough cap space to make a run at a max contract FA, but they have to be fairly careful with the salary commitments from here on out.

Edited January 22, 2009 by ZoomSlowik

[ZoomSlowik]

Personally, I'd be most worried about Miami in the 2010 FA derby. As things stand right now even with all of their options on young guys exercised AND Dwayne Wade's $17 mil player option factored in their cap total for the 2010 off-season is around $35 mil. They can easily afford to bring in another max player besides Wade. They have an awful lot of things going for them: a top-5 player in the league, another potential stud with Beasley, a popular warm-weather destination and IIRC no income tax. Of course that's moot if they go after Boozer this year, but who knows.

 

Cleveland is in a similar situation where they can afford Lebron and another stud, and if Portland waits until 2010 to pay Aldridge and Roy as well as let some of their young guys go (Outlaw, Blake, Frye and Diogu) they can have enough room for a max deal too. Personally if I'm a FA I take all of those places over New York, and probably Chicago too if Rose does what we all think he will, and they're a well-supported team in a major market too.

 

[DBAHO]

Personally, I'd be most worried about Miami in the 2010 FA derby. As things stand right now even with all of their options on young guys exercised AND Dwayne Wade's $17 mil player option factored in their cap total for the 2010 off-season is around $35 mil. They can easily afford to bring in another max player besides Wade. They have an awful lot of things going for them: a top-5 player in the league, another potential stud with Beasley, a popular warm-weather destination and IIRC no income tax. Of course that's moot if they go after Boozer this year, but who knows.

 

Cleveland is in a similar situation where they can afford Lebron and another stud, and if Portland waits until 2010 to pay Aldridge and Roy as well as let some of their young guys go (Outlaw, Blake, Frye and Diogu) they can have enough room for a max deal too. Personally if I'm a FA I take all of those places over New York, and probably Chicago too if Rose does what we all think he will, and they're a well-supported team in a major market too.

I forgot about Miami, you're definitely right in saying they'll be a player come FA, but that'll obviously depend on Boozer, who won't be with Utah next season due to Millsap's emergence.

 

I mean the Bulls should try to get 1 stud in 2010 obviously, but they still might not get one. Not sure if Paxson's willing to take that risk, with his job probably on the line right now.

[nitetrain8601]

For 2010, if Gordon isn't resigned, their salary is $35,869,696. Without including options being picked up, we're at $27,195,000. Which leaves more than enough to resign Gordon and also a max contract. The cap is currently at, $58,680,000.

 

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/da...aries/bulls.jsp

 

Trust him, he actually spends thousands of research on getting that info. Hoopshype really isn't considered to be as accurate as shamsports, though some may think otherwise. I digress.

 

I don't think Noah and maybe even Tyrus should be retained. Noah is part of the problem. He cares more about the grass, him and Tyrus can't seem to learn a playbook to save their lives along with Nocioni. And Noah really has frustrated the coaching staff already with his antics(from the inside).

 

Bulls shouldn't focus on LeBron as I think he is staying in Cleveland or he will be in New York. There is no other option for him as New York is his favorite city, but Cleveland could give him the most money. Management feels, however, the main target should be, and will be Dwyane Wade. So if they are serious about getting him, Gordon is off the books. You probably could sign another impact FA as well. I personally think Wade would be redundant with Rose as they both are excellent at getting in the lane, but can't stretch the floor. I think the main target should be Amare.

 

I thought I should add this as my summary, as to the Ben Gordon situation, and as to why Paxson is such a screwup. ReRisen posted this at RealGM and I honestly could not say it better.

 

However, the bad feelings between the Bulls and Gordon may not allow the team to do what we'd like in an ideal world, and on top of that, it doesn't seem like Bulls management is on board with our idea of freeing up salary with Hinrich/Noc and keeping Gordon.

 

 

That looks to be the way things are heading. But I don't know what this team sees in the future for Nocioni if we *do* get Bosh or Amare. He's not even going to have a role. 10 minutes a game backing up Luol Deng?

 

Sometimes I wonder why Paxson even drafted Gordon with a 3rd overall pick. What did he expect from this 6'2 combo guard? If it was to learn to play PG, we certainly never gave him any lengthy shot to do it, and had Hinrich anyway so that doesn't make sense.

 

It also doesn't make sense to use a 3rd pick on a guy, if you think his maximum capacity in the league is a 6th man off the bench.

 

It seems to me Gordon has accomplished just about as much as Paxson could have ever have expected, but now he doesn't have a place on the team? That is bad management. And its not just a money issue, something went wrong here. No players of Gordon's stature have ever before been allowed to go on the qualifying offer and then walk, have they? This is really a unique situation and the team does not come out of it looking good.

Edited January 23, 2009 by nitetrain8601

[ZoomSlowik]

For 2010, if Gordon isn't resigned, their salary is $35,869,696. Without including options being picked up, we're at $27,195,000. Which leaves more than enough to resign Gordon and also a max contract. The cap is currently at, $58,680,000.

 

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/da...aries/bulls.jsp

 

Trust him, he actually spends thousands of research on getting that info. Hoopshype really isn't considered to be as accurate as shamsports, though some may think otherwise. I digress.

 

I don't think Noah and maybe even Tyrus should be retained. Noah is part of the problem. He cares more about the grass, him and Tyrus can't seem to learn a playbook to save their lives along with Nocioni. And Noah really has frustrated the coaching staff already with his antics(from the inside).

 

The $35.8 mil still doesn't count all of their "cap responsibilities". You can use whatever site you want, you still have to make sure it accounts for everything that affects their cap space. That number simply adds Rose's option (which will obviously be picked up) and Noah's option to the $27 mil from the guaranteed multi-year contracts. That doesn't factor in the qualifying offers for Tyrus and Thabo, and until we renounce the rights to those guys those totals will count against the cap (or sign them to an extension, but then it'd be more). Granted the team has total control over whether or not those stay there, but with their history on guys they've drafted and "developed" I wouldn't assume that they'll be renounced.

 

And we really don't have "more than enough" to keep Gordon and still have room for a max deal, at least not without some dumping. Their guaranteed deals and Rose's option alone are at $32 mil, add $10 mil or so for Gordon and you're over that $40 mil threshold, making a max deal unlikely. Even if you can move Hinrich, the total for the remaining 4 is at almost $34 mil with plenty of roster spots left to worry about (6 mil for even the 8 active players is a stretch), or at $36 mil if it's Nocioni going instead of Hinrich. At least two of Hinrich, Nocioni and Tyrus have to go if they want any hope of signing Gordon and still getting a max contract player, and probably Thabo as well. I don't see how that's "more than enough room".

Edited January 23, 2009 by ZoomSlowik

[nitetrain8601]

The $35.8 mil still doesn't count all of their "cap responsibilities". You can use whatever site you want, you still have to make sure it accounts for everything that affects their cap space. That number simply adds Rose's option (which will obviously be picked up) and Noah's option to the $27 mil from the guaranteed multi-year contracts. That doesn't factor in the qualifying offers for Tyrus and Thabo, and until we renounce the rights to those guys those totals will count against the cap (or sign them to an extension, but then it'd be more). Granted the team has total control over whether or not those stay there, but with their history on guys they've drafted and "developed" I wouldn't assume that they'll be renounced.

 

And we really don't have "more than enough" to keep Gordon and still have room for a max deal, at least not without some dumping. Their guaranteed deals and Rose's option alone are at $32 mil, add $10 mil or so for Gordon and you're over that $40 mil threshold, making a max deal unlikely. Even if you can move Hinrich, the total for the remaining 4 is at almost $34 mil with plenty of roster spots left to worry about (6 mil for even the 8 active players is a stretch), or at $36 mil if it's Nocioni going instead of Hinrich. At least two of Hinrich, Nocioni and Tyrus have to go if they want any hope of signing Gordon and still getting a max contract player, and probably Thabo as well. I don't see how that's "more than enough room".

 

Even with the rights of Thomas and Thabo not being renounced, the Bulls would have about 15 million to play with. They could backload the contract to account for when Noc would be let go off the books and Hinrich as well. Also, I think you will see Thabo, Tyrus and/or Noah traded by then. But yes, the easiest way would be to get rid of Kirk and Noc.

[ZoomSlowik]

Even with the rights of Thomas and Thabo not being renounced, the Bulls would have about 15 million to play with. They could backload the contract to account for when Noc would be let go off the books and Hinrich as well. Also, I think you will see Thabo, Tyrus and/or Noah traded by then. But yes, the easiest way would be to get rid of Kirk and Noc.

 

They can't do that and still give the player a max contract. The maximum raise per year when signing another team's free agent is 8% per year, so their offer would only come out to 5-87 instead of the maximum 5-105, meaning they'd be EXTREMELY unlikely to get them. A max contract has to start at a bit over $18 mil in the first year (note:I'm fairly confident these numbers apply to Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Amare, but some others may be higher due to more service time and thus a higher salary).

 

Again, I'm not saying that they can't go after a max contract guy under any circumstances, they just can't throw around money without careful consideration and still do that. Some guys are going to have to go.

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

And the Celtics remind everybody they're still the team to beat. Impressive road win tonight against a really good Orlando team.

[DBAHO]

And the Celtics remind everybody they're still the team to beat. Impressive road win tonight against a really good Orlando team.

Probably our worst performance of the season so far shooting wise, so a little heartening that we only lost by 10.

 

We've got to work on our dribble penetration and ability to find the open man for the 3 against the Celtics though.

 

Also not let Big Baby shoot sweet jumpers whenever he wants.

[Steve9347]

And the Celtics remind everybody they're still the team to beat. Impressive road win tonight against a really good Orlando team.

Snore.

 

Old and boring. I don't think the Magic are better though... they are overrated and Jameer Nelson is destined to come back down to Earth. However, the Cavs and Lakers are better teams than the Celtics.

[DBAHO]

Snore.

 

Old and boring. I don't think the Magic are better though... they are overrated and Jameer Nelson is destined to come back down to Earth. However, the Cavs and Lakers are better teams than the Celtics.

Nelson's numbers have been going up from month to month since the start of the season.

 

Even if he only averages 15PPG from here on out, he'll still end up averaging around 16PPG, and have a 2.5:1 A/TO ratio.

[whitesoxfan101]

Unless Paxson is launched soon, you know they are going to re-sign Gordon and end up not having the resources to do anything in the summer of 2010. It's the Pax thing to do, he has cemented his status as one of the worst GM's in the league this year.

[DBAHO]

I saw Marc Iavaroni got fired by Memphis last night also.

 

My guess is he ends up coaching Toronto next season.

[nitetrain8601]

Unless Paxson is launched soon, you know they are going to re-sign Gordon and end up not having the resources to do anything in the summer of 2010. It's the Pax thing to do, he has cemented his status as one of the worst GM's in the league this year.

 

Management has made it clear they do not want Gordon here. That's why the pulled their offer at the last minute when Gordon wanted to agree to it. Kirk will be here. Gordon will only stay if he drastically takes less than what was offered despite him playing better. When JR was asked by a media reporter in an elevator last summer before negotiations began with anyone, and was told they would lock up Deng, they won't resign Gordon. JR does pay a huge factor in signing and resigning guys as he played a large part in the D'Antoni negotiations.

 

 

I saw Marc Iavaroni got fired by Memphis last night also.

 

My guess is he ends up coaching Toronto next season.

 

I would be shocked if he ends up in Toronto unless he changes. The problem with him in Memphis from all reports is that he didn't have a consistent lineup and he would often deviate from what lineups worked best. He also would not run with Memphis despite having the perfect PG's to do so and being a D'Antoni disciple. He really didn't run any type of offense at all. My guess is he ends up on D'Antoni's staff next year.

 

[nitetrain8601]

They can't do that and still give the player a max contract. The maximum raise per year when signing another team's free agent is 8% per year, so their offer would only come out to 5-87 instead of the maximum 5-105, meaning they'd be EXTREMELY unlikely to get them. A max contract has to start at a bit over $18 mil in the first year (note:I'm fairly confident these numbers apply to Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Amare, but some others may be higher due to more service time and thus a higher salary).

 

Again, I'm not saying that they can't go after a max contract guy under any circumstances, they just can't throw around money without careful consideration and still do that. Some guys are going to have to go.

 

Most definitely. I think we are arguing over the same thing, but just different. We will have to rid ourselves of Hinrich and Noc if not Gordon and Noc to get a LeBron here. I think though, for the big FA's, they are going to hold out for a S&T so they could receive that max money because their current team could offer more than a new team.

[SoxFanForever]

Bulls lose again. How long until a shakeup?

[fathom]

Bulls lose again. How long until a shakeup?

 

I particularly liked them taking out Rose with about 6 minutes left in a close game, only to turn the game back on a few minutes later and see it was a blowout.

[kjshoe04]

I'm a huge NBA fan and I just can't watch the Bulls. I've probably seen the Lakers play more times this year. It's sad because after the Sox, the Bulls are my number 2 team. Something needs to be done.

[MHizzle85]

I'm a huge NBA fan and I just can't watch the Bulls. I've probably seen the Lakers play more times this year. It's sad because after the Sox, the Bulls are my number 2 team. Something needs to be done.

I'm there with you, i'm really tired of getting pissed off while watching this team.

[SoxAce]

Geez that was a bad coaching game by VDN.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Snore.

 

Old and boring. I don't think the Magic are better though... they are overrated and Jameer Nelson is destined to come back down to Earth. However, the Cavs and Lakers are better teams than the Celtics.

 

Snore all you want. Until either the Cavs or Lakers beat them four times in May or June, the Celtics are the team to beat.

[lostfan]

So I heard that Ben Gordon got fined by Del Negro for being late to a flight, and then proceeded to curse Del Negro out. Awesome. Just the kind of atmosphere I like to see on my team.