Official 2008-2009 NBA Thread

[Palehosefan]

Beasley, Dorell Wright, and Mark Blount for Amare. Do it.

[DBAHO]

Beasley, Dorell Wright, and Mark Blount for Amare. Do it.

When does Mark Blount's deal end?

 

I think Noah + Gooden + Thomas for Amare is a better offer right now FWIW.

[Palehosefan]

When does Mark Blount's deal end?

 

I think Noah + Gooden + Thomas for Amare is a better offer right now FWIW.

 

Blounts deal ends after next season. That's the max I would offer for Amare from the Heats side.

[southsider2k5]

The problem with Amare is, if you don't run enough plays for him offensively on the pick and roll, he's going to quit on rebounding and defense which is basically what he's done this season.

 

And he's not a real low post threat, albeit he'd be a huge upgrade on what the Bulls have had.

 

I still think it's worth it for the Bulls to pull the trigger. If Amare bolts in 2010 to say the Knicks, just go after Chris Bosh instead.

 

With a point man like Rose on the floor, I don't think that will be a problem.

[southsider2k5]

Let's assume we make the Noah + Tyrus + cap room for Amare deal. That leaves the Bulls with Aaron Gray as their starting Center.

 

I wouldn't object to this of course, but that leaves the question...what starting C's are available this offseason as FA?

 

You can put an Aaron Gray on the floor when you have a guy like Stoudemire to clean up after him.

[Balta1701]

Do whatever it takes. It's not like the Bulls will have any cap space this off-season anyways, and they'd still have to move Hinrich or Nocioni for an expiring deal to make room for a max deal in 2010. They might as well just do it now, Amare is arguably the best offensive big man in the league, he's still only 26 and would likely be one of our main targets that year anyways.

The Bulls won't have cap space this offseason either way, but making that move is the difference between having the luxury tax space to make a matching/competitive offer for Gordon or not.

[DBAHO]

You can put an Aaron Gray on the floor when you have a guy like Stoudemire to clean up after him.

Well I dunno about that, Amare hasn't exactly played great with a big like Shaq next to him.

 

If they could somehow keep Thomas and give up say 2 future 1st's, Noah and Gooden for Amare, they should definitely do that.

 

But I agree that the Bulls should do what they can to get Amare.

 

He can be the star this team hasn't had since Michael Jordan.

[Kyyle23]

Well I dunno about that, Amare hasn't exactly played great with a big like Shaq next to him.

 

If they could somehow keep Thomas and give up say 2 future 1st's, Noah and Gooden for Amare, they should definitely do that.

 

But I agree that the Bulls should do what they can to get Amare.

 

He can be the star this team hasn't had since Michael Jordan.

 

Thats gonna be Rose. Amare will be his Pippen

[Steve9347]

Well I dunno about that, Amare hasn't exactly played great with a big like Shaq next to him.

 

If they could somehow keep Thomas and give up say 2 future 1st's, Noah and Gooden for Amare, they should definitely do that.

 

But I agree that the Bulls should do what they can to get Amare.

 

He can be the perfect compliment to Rose (the star this team hasn't had since Michael Jordan).

Fixed that for you.

[Steve9347]

Thats gonna be Rose. Amare will be his Pippen

 

 

Fixed that for you.

Ha, beat me to it.

[ZoomSlowik]

The Bulls won't have cap space this offseason either way, but making that move is the difference between having the luxury tax space to make a matching/competitive offer for Gordon or not.

 

I'm not particularly worried about Gordon, or anyone else for that matter, if they get Rose and Amare. It'd be nice to keep him as a sniper, but I won't lose sleep if he's gone, especially considering they haven't come that close to an agreement over the past two years. Rose and Amare would be getting the bulk of the touches anyways, Gordon would no longer be able to fire jumpers with impunity, making it a lot harder for him to keep his average up around 20 a game. I'm sure they can find a decent spot-up shooter that won't need the ball as much with the MLE if it comes to that, or possibly move Hinrich and/or Nocioni in another deal.

[Balta1701]

I'm not particularly worried about Gordon, or anyone else for that matter, if they get Rose and Amare. It'd be nice to keep him as a sniper, but I won't lose sleep if he's gone, especially considering they haven't come that close to an agreement over the past two years. Rose and Amare would be getting the bulk of the touches anyways, Gordon would no longer be able to fire jumpers with impunity, making it a lot harder for him to keep his average up around 20 a game. I'm sure they can find a decent spot-up shooter that won't need the ball as much with the MLE if it comes to that, or possibly move Hinrich and/or Nocioni in another deal.

IMO, given the salary cap constraints...even if we're picking up an Amare, if we are in a position where we are holding contracts for Hinrich, Nocioni, Amare, and Deng through 2011 and after, then we're stuck in such a salary cap hell that it almost becomes a lateral move. Not entirely obviously because of giving Rose an extra guy in the front court, but if we can't move one of the 3 contracts we currently have that are big (Hinrich, Noc, Deng) and last forever, then we're asking for trouble with these moves. If you could move any of those guys in the Amare deal or you could move them for expiring contract filler to someone else (Cleveland, come on, Hinrich is just a perfect darn fit for you) then you're not trying to maneuver a starting SG and a starting C in under the luxury tax with like $2 million to play with.

 

Edit; the other point here is that Amare's going to be one of the biggest contracts in the league starting in 2011. At the same time, we'll still be holding Deng, Hinrich, Noc, and we're going to need to Extend Rose right around then. You can't fit in $20 million for Amare, $8 million for Hinrich and Nocioni, $12 million for Deng, and $12 million for Rose under the luxury tax and have really anything left over (That assumes that Tyrus and Noah are both gone). That's $60 million, and giving the economy, I doubt the luxury tax is going up substantially from the $67 million it's currently sitting at before then. You're left with just a handful of cash to fill 2 starting spots, to keep guys like Thabo or anyone you don't trade, to fill up the whole bench, etc.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

It won't happen because pax is atrocious, but you give up anyone but Rose for Amare.

[SoxAce]

If they could somehow keep Thomas and give up say 2 future 1st's, Noah and Gooden for Amare, they should definitely do that.

 

That would be the most ideal. Add a Hinrich (which quite a few GM's do like BTW) or a Noc to a deal (get those contracts outta here) like Zoom was just saying and you actually have something in the future that just doesn't involve a player. (Rose) Tyrus is going to be really good. When he gets his minutes, he's damn solid. Deng can't be involved anyway even though he's improved his game in the last month as much as Tyrus has. His conract is very... well.. bad. But he's a nice complimentary player. Probably will never be that "star" that Pax or many once thought. Add some draft picks and giggady.

 

PG-Rose

SG-Gordon (for the time being)/Thabo (just wish he was alittle more aggresive as a scorer)

C-Amare

SF-Deng

PF-Thomas

 

Probably one of the more explosive/athletic starting line-ups your ever going to see. Rose and Amare together has gotten my penis striken into metaporphis. Hell honestly, I would give up alot to get freaking Beastly (Him and Rose together is even sweeter IMO) but I doubt that will happen.

[ZoomSlowik]

I really don't see anyway we can get Amare without giving up Deng OR Thomas. Frankly, IMO anyone but Rose can go for Amare, none of these guys are exactly elite. You don't get the chance to get someone as talented as Amare that's still in his prime very often, and the team getting the star pretty much ALWAYS gets the better end when all is said and done.

[Steve9347]

I really don't see anyway we can get Amare without giving up Deng OR Thomas. Frankly, IMO anyone but Rose can go for Amare, none of these guys are exactly elite. You don't get the chance to get someone as talented as Amare that's still in his prime very often, and the team getting the star pretty much ALWAYS gets the better end when all is said and done.

Give them Tyrus. Are people really wanting to keep Tyrus after a couple of hot games? THIS IS EXACTLY THE TYPE OF RUN WE NEEDED TO BE ABLE TO MOVE HIS SH*TTY ASS!!!

 

Hold onto Deng: he, Amare, and Rose is a very nice threesome to build around.

Edited February 6, 2009 by Steve9347

[Balta1701]

Give them Tyrus. Are people really wanting to keep Tyrus after a couple of hot games? THIS IS EXACTLY THE TYPE OF RUN WE NEEDED TO BE ABLE TO MOVE HIS SH*TTY ASS!!!

 

Hold onto Deng: he, Amare, and Rose is a very nice threesome to build around.

I'm fine with giving them any player except Rose. I just don't want to box us in to luxury tax Hell at the same time, because then we'll be the team looking to trade Amare in a few years. The motivation for keeping TT is; if you give up TT and Noah, next year you have Amare at C and Deng at PF and you have zero space under the luxury tax to either add a C or to even keep Gordon, and the year you wind up getting space under that tax is the year you have to extend Amare.

[GoodAsGould]

Yeah, I do think Tyrus has the chance to be a 15, 10 and maybe 2 blocks a game type season potential. But I have no hope for Noah ever being a productive starter longterm, Gooden means nothing to this franchise, and Amare is a special player. If Paxson has the opportunity, this would correct a lot of his poor mistakes in the past.

 

 

Does anyone think Kirk Hinrich or Larry Hughes could be moved for either a Kaman or Wilcox afterwards, both those guys are post players and would be better for our team needs than what Hinrich/Hughes offer.

[SoxAce]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Preach bro.

[Balta1701]

Does anyone think Kirk Hinrich or Larry Hughes could be moved for either a Kaman or Wilcox afterwards, both those guys are post players and would be better for our team needs than what Hinrich/Hughes offer.

If we were to trade for Amare, the only way we can move Hughes's contract is if we get another 2010 expiring contract in return. Otherwise we'll lose the ability to extend Amare past 2010 without crossing the hated luxury tax # (since both Amare and Hughes expire in 2010).

[ZoomSlowik]

I'm fine with giving them any player except Rose. I just don't want to box us in to luxury tax Hell at the same time, because then we'll be the team looking to trade Amare in a few years. The motivation for keeping TT is; if you give up TT and Noah, next year you have Amare at C and Deng at PF and you have zero space under the luxury tax to either add a C or to even keep Gordon, and the year you wind up getting space under that tax is the year you have to extend Amare.

 

I don't get why you think this deal screws them over with the luxury tax when we'd have to do the same thing to add Amare (or anyone else) as a free agent anyways. They can't afford to keep Gordon if they want space in 2010 barring a total gut-job and may be over the luxury tax if they keep Tyrus as well since even his qualifying offer is over $6 mil. It really isn't any different.

 

Their commitments for 2010-2012 are around $35 mil between Deng, Hinrich, Nocioni and Rose, still WELL under the salary cap. Even if you add Amare's $20 mil extension they'll be a hair below the salary cap much less the luxury tax. I realize that's only 5 players, but you'll also have a couple of cheap 1st round picks mixed in as well as an MLE or two, depending on which guys go of course. Hinrich and Nocioni will also be off the payroll when Rose gets his big extension, giving you about $14 mil of breathing room (assuming you don't dump them before that).

 

Adding Amare is still a step forward because he's an actual elite player. Right now all they have is a young Rose and a bunch of decent but not stellar players. That's not going to get them anywhere unless Rose becomes a Chris Paul level PG, and even then they'd be hard-pressed to win it all without getting him some help.

[Balta1701]

Lebron's triple double in NY taken away, 1 rebound of his was credited wrong.

[GoodAsGould]

If we were to trade for Amare, the only way we can move Hughes's contract is if we get another 2010 expiring contract in return. Otherwise we'll lose the ability to extend Amare past 2010 without crossing the hated luxury tax # (since both Amare and Hughes expire in 2010).

 

hasnt JR always said he will pay the luxury tax for a team that has a chance to win it all? In the NBA that is since he make a profit anyways.

[SoxAce]

Lebron's triple double in NY taken away, 1 rebound of his was credited wrong.

 

Ah, Ben Wallace. He still finds ways to f*** up.

[SoxAce]

Since Amare (or Amar'e) is officially on the block there's alot of teams calling Mr. Kerr (who BTW kinda helps in the trading process) for his services and rightfully so. Portland (rumor has it Aldridge + Lafrentz + 1st rd pick maybe 2 [suns like Bayless also, but Portland doesn't want to deal him]) Sacremento (Hawes + 1st rd pick that's going to be high + I'm guessing a expiring contract.. Soloman?[i can't see them dealing K. Martin or even Garcia]) Miami (Beastley + Marion + pick + expiring contract forgot who [rumor has it the suns turned it down... for now] Toronto (don't remember who their dealing) and you got potential others in Memphis, Charlotte, New York I'm sure will ask, etc..

 

Here's what Kerr said in 2007 in his blogs he used to write.

 

Sefolosha, meanwhile, has shown flashes of brilliance all season, and his strong play continued in the two games. He had eight points and nine boards against the Grizzlies, then made all three of his shots in 13 minutes against the Spurs.

 

Even if the two rookies don't get playing time, Chicago is an intriguing, if not complete, team. Between Gordon, Kirk Hinrich, Luol Deng and Andres Nocioni, there's loads of perimeter talent. But the lack of an inside scorer continues to hurt the Bulls. Eventually, general manager John Paxson will have to trade some of the talent he has accumulated for a big man, and if Sefolosha and Thomas develop this year, that's two more bargaining chips Paxson will have on the table.

 

For the record he LOVES Hinrich. IMO, he sees him as Nash's successor (who is getting up there in age, but is the only untouchable according to Kerr I beieve) the Suns front office like Tyrus, Noah, Deng, Noc and Thabo. (I believe I heard Gooden too esp. his expiring contract) I have one of the biggest man crushes on TT, but if you can get an Amare (or if the Suns like Noah enough, but they do have Lopez and if I was Kerr... yea I'd want a young player with potential back) then yea... anyone but Rose can leave (hell they can take Deng for all I care, perhaps giving us back in a bigger deal say.. for s***s and giggles... Barbosa? Then Gordon can walk in the offseason) I'm reluctant to deal Thabo though unless we have other plans at the SG casue we all know BG ain't commin back. Love his size at the SG position and he's a pass first (even though I wish he could be a tad more aggresive but with Rose, Amare perhaps even a Barbosa comming off the bench... you don't need him to score much as he's a great passer and a good defender) I would think Noah would fit more with the team, but Amar'e can play both the PF/C position (Zoom/Steve/Slav/Andrew/ws101/Balta/Kyle/Rock/Brian/cal/etc.. etc.. could probably give their insight on which he would fit better position wise [amare]) and let's face it, his defense leaves little to be desired so both Tyrus (great weak side D defender, better open court runner, high ceiling, allows Amare to play C or till Asik comes in a couple years who Pax really likes and assuming Amare gets his extention) or Noah (solid defender, also ability to run the court, limited ceiling, but allows Amare to play the PF and he can put back tip-ins and such)

 

It's crazy to think. You could argue Paxson made the 'right' moves with drafting Tyrus (over Aldridge, Roy, Gay but I personally loved the pick), Noah (over Hawes), signing Ben Wallace (to get the Drew Gooden expiring contract) and ended up with Rose and Amare. Just like he planned it right. I don't wanna get too ahead as Pax will probably not have the balls to pull this off but the Bulls are in GREAT position as they have what Kerr is looking for (A good young player(s), expiring contracts, pick(s)) just depends if some other teams' talent is better or if Pax doesn't wanna man up and deal a specific player (ala Deng, Hinrich etc.) or even if the Suns DON'T DEAL HIM. (always a possibility) Amar'e wants to be the man, wants a big market to endorse, and wants to be in the right system (I'm sure Vinny's ass can get that accomplished) and with Rose here who is a distributor, doesn't want to be the man, and won't have to do everything here, not to mention... he's damn good it's a win-win. Gotta extend him though.

 

My bordom is over now... I have a headache so ima stop typing and just day-dream that this gets done.

 

EDIT: Oh.. BTW found this...

 

Suns phones are ringing for Amare (And a few for Shaq)

 

The one-year anniversary of the Shaquille O'Neal trade was a busy day on the phones for the Phoenix Suns.

 

NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com that the Suns on Friday entered into preliminary discussions with numerous teams on possible trade scenarios, mostly featuring All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire but also a few involving O'Neal as the franchise embarks on a potentially radical makeover just 12 months removed from O'Neal's arrival on Feb. 6, 2008.

Although sources close to the situation insist that no deal is imminent, there is a growing belief around the league that the Suns will almost certainly move at least one of their big names before the league's Feb. 19 trading deadline, with Stoudemire sounding as though he expects to be the next to leave in comments Friday to reporters in Phoenix.

 

The Arizona Republic, in a story posted Friday on its Web site, quoted Stoudemire as saying: "I know for sure, wherever I go, we're going to definitely be playoff contenders. I bring a lot to the table."

 

Sources told ESPN.com that the Chicago Bulls, Miami Heat, Detroit Pistons and Portland Trail Blazers are among the many teams with whom Phoenix has exchanged trade concepts, with the Bulls and Heat believed to be pursuing Stoudemire hardest at this early stage.